Real ALPS and simplified ALPS

[Chloe]

I found this post by sandy which might be useful to others. Here is an excerpt:

Please keep in mind that existence of ALPS logo on the upper housing doesn't help you to identify if it is Real or Simplified. As a matter of fact, the easiest way to determine Real or Simplified is removing upper housing to examine swiching assy.

To further complicate things:

There are several variations of switching assembly of real ALPS such as Black, Gray, White and short White.

I don't know if Strong Man have been making them since ALPS discontinued them. According to this, ALPS had the production transferred to Fu Hua in Taiwan. I don't have a link to the original post:

ALPS keyboard primary axis: the axis is the Japanese custom made ALPS, Japan currently has ALPS axis ALPS production, technology transfer to Taiwan's Fu-hua, Taiwan, however the production of ALPS axis of the original structure has been simplified to reduce the cost of reservations can handle With the voices, but the quality of materials used in the end than the primary axis.

According to chens, there was no copyright infringement using the ALPS name:
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=cn&u=http://my3c.com/D5/viewthread.php?tid=6258

This article also mentions Fu Hua and ALPS production:
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=cn&u=http://www.talkdigi.net/kbt/alpstrue.html

[lowpoly]

Please keep in mind that existence of ALPS logo on the upper housing doesn't help you to identify if it is Real or Simplified.

It would have been to easy.

So does he mean by simplified Alps that those are clones not made by Alps?

Here is a manufacturer overview, real vs. simplified (by Sandy):

http://sandy55.fc2web.com/keyboard/alps.html

So how does the internals have to look with a real Alps switch? The one link that should clarify it is dead.

[itlnstln]

I wonder if there is a way to add the rubber damper to the switch.  I, unfortunately, had to use a rubber dome keyboard a little while ago, and while the tactility wasn't worth a crap, I missed the soft landing on the bottom out.  Since I have been using the Northgate, I have started to get tired of the clacking from the bottom out of the Alps switches.  The click of the switch is nice, but the clack gets irritating after awhile.  I think I am going to try to score a Compaq MX11800 for the Cherry browns.

[Chloe]

So does he mean by simplified Alps that those are clones not made by Alps?

I think the simplified ALPS began with the transfer of production to Taiwan. I don't know if the designs have changed since. From what I've read, ALPS ceased production at least ten years ago, but I don't know if that means production in Japan.

[lowpoly]

I wonder if there is a way to add the rubber damper to the switch.

Maybe you can harvest switch internals from an Apple Ext. II.

[itlnstln]

That might sound like a plan.  Am I right in assuming the rubber damper softens the landing?

[lowpoly]

Feels like it. I have never opened a switch though or seen the internals.

On the return and backspace keys of my previously abused Ext. II the bumpers have disintegrated. Those keys go down with a loud clack.

[itlnstln]

That might sound like a plan.  Am I right in assuming the rubber damper softens the landing?

Yes:

http://park16.wakwak.com/~ex4/kb/tech_alps_bigfoot2.htm

Now, I wonder if there is way I can fabricate these.  I would get an Apple Extended II, but it seems like it would be awfully expensive to just steal the rubber bumpers from it.  In actuality, all I would need to do is soften the landing against the impact bumps at the top and bottom of the switch.  Hmm...

[lowpoly]

I would get an Apple Extended II, but it seems like it would be awfully expensive to just steal the rubber bumpers from it.

Here, they often go for Euro 1,-. Nobody wants them.

[alpslover]

So how does the internals have to look with a real Alps switch? The one link that should clarify it is dead.

the difference is in the switching mechanism.  simplified alps has just 2 metal pieces, but the non-simplified one has more.

last picture on the first page of this thread:

http://74.125.93.104/translate_c?hl=en&sl=cn&u=http://forum.talkdigi.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php%3Ft%3D19&usg=ALkJrhhsDObjwWDUnDe_NIp8po_Og2dQOQ

[lowpoly]

Thanks.

[wellington1869]

Here, they often go for Euro 1,-. Nobody wants them.

Too bad it would cost $30 or $40 to ship it
Even so it might be cheaper than buying them in the US actually, where on ebay they regularly go for 60 or so I think. [update, looks like about $30 shipped for an m3501, which isnt bad really]
Assuming the rubber dampers havent disintegrated with age...

[fkeidjn]

So looking at the difference from real and simplified Alps, it looks like simplified Alps are more prone to defects and keyswitch death because it lacks the quality construction as the real Alps?  I might be wrong

[Chloe]

I don't know how they compare in this respect. This Amazon page says 8 million keypress life:
http://www.amazon.com/Adesso-Programmable-Mechanical-Keyswitch-MCK-142Pro/dp/B0000512HT

[xsphat]

So according to those links, I had a MK96 with simplified Alps and a Northgate with (complicated?) Alps side by side. The switches sound and feel identical, so what is the difference? And if they feel the same, who cares?

I've never understood the whole simplified Alps thing.

[Chloe]

Well if they feel the same, I don't think it matters.

[xsphat]

Well what is the difference supposed to be?

[Chloe]

The difference is in the internals, the design was simplified when production was moved from Japan to Taiwan. I don't know if this involved using lesser quality materials. Here, the real ALPS has three metal parts, one apparently gold-plated, whereas the simplified has only two:
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=cn&u=http://forum.talkdigi.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=19

[xsphat]

OK so it is conceivable that they could feel the same. In fact, that was most likely Alps' intent in the design of the simplified version of the switch, right?

[Chloe]

I would expect so. Maybe they are of inferior quality, it might explain why so much attention is paid to the differences. This is speculation of course.