Alps Rubber Dampers

[itlnstln]

I need some ideas.  I am looking to fabricate something that will mimic the functionality of the rubber dampers on some Alps switches:

http://park16.wakwak.com/~ex4/kb/tech_alps_bigfoot2.htm

Ever since I got my Evolution, the loud clacking sound of the keys bottoming out and returning to the top has been quite annoying as it the sound seems to overpower the tactile click that I want to hear.  That, and with the steel construction of the 'board, the clacking resonates making it that much more annoying.  I know I can harvest the bumpers from, say, an Apple II Extended kb, but I would like to fabricate them, because I would like to add them to several 'boards, and buying a second keyboard to harvest rubber bumpers would get expensive and unnecessary.  If you have any ideas on how I can do this, please let me know.

[wellington1869]

hey I was thinking about this too; on my smk85 the spacebar has a horrendous 'gunshot' return-to-top clack (I took care of bottoming clack with - what else - velcro strip on the top of the switch casing). The rubber bumpers are pretty ingenious. How I wish we could buy them by the handful. would Northgate repairs have them?

If cant buy them, how about:
-piece of crayola model magic, black (easy to shape, when dry it firms up nicely but remains totally flexible).
-elmers glue (into the notch on the plunger; would have to only 'close up' the two openings of the notch)
-piece of sponge squished into the notch

Model magic may work surprisingly well, I've worked with it before. It has the right qualities. Roll a thin strip on a table top, then cut off 1/4" pieces and squish them into the notch. Shape as necessary (its very easy to shape). It dries overnight but best thing about it is that it remains flexible when dry.

[Chloe]

You could try a neoprene mouse mat cut into little strips.

[itlnstln]

How I wish we could buy them by the handful. would Northgate repairs have them?

It's funny you should ask. I e-mailed Bob at Northgate Repair, and he had never heard of them.  I sent a reply with the link in the original post (which I should have done the first time), and I am still waiting for a response back.

I like the sponge and mouspad ideas.  I will give them a try as soon as I get my Dells in (I am not going to experiment on the Northgate ).  I wonder about the Model Magic.  I will have to try the scroll lock or something on the Dell.  I have a bad feeling about putting clay in the switch even if it's dry.

[wellington1869]

Another option is to attack this problem by modifying the case rather than the plunger.
Look at the pic here. The "clack" on bottom and top is produced by the plunger hitting the "tabs" at the bottom and top of the case.  Could put a layer of something over those tabs. (whether thats elmers glue (which is relatively thick and flexible when dry) or electrical tape or duct tape etc.

(Incidentally while any solution would eventually wear out (even the original rubber dampers do disintegrate apparently), I dont think our solutions would wear out so fast that it would be a problem. The plastic forces here are relatively light I think).

[wellington1869]

I like the sponge and mouspad ideas.  I will give them a try as soon as I get my Dells in (I am not going to experiment on the Northgate ).

definitely post results here

you can even buy neoprene sheets on ebay, and if they are the right thickness all you have to do is cut them into strips with an xacto knife. If they are self adhesive, even better.

How about these self adhesive resonance killing sheets? (looks like made out of neoprene).

[itlnstln]

Looking at your post on removing Alps switches, Wellington, I think I might be able to put something on the top and bottom of the casing to dampen the impact that way.  I might pick up those neoprene sheets and give it a shot.  I just need to be careful that I don't cover up the spring holder.

[wellington1869]

yea, or use those neoprene sheets as a rubber-damper-replacement in the notch on the plunger.

[wellington1869]

I used to say there is nothing velcro and duct tape cant fix... I might have to add self-adhesive neoprene sheets to that list

[Chloe]

You could also try squeezing a flattened o-ring into the gap. It will take some experimenting to find the best size. I think the resulting shape would look similar to the stock rubber dampers.

[itlnstln]

You could also try squeezing a flattened o-ring into the gap. It will take some experimenting to find the best size. I think the resulting shape would look similar to the stock rubber dampers.

WIN!!!  I think this is perfect!!!  I will have to see if I can find these at a DIY store.  I will use the neoprene as a backup.  Thanks!!!

[Chloe]

http://www.allorings.com/ have a good range. I found these really hard to get hold of in the UK.

[itlnstln]

Even if I have to cut them in half and wedge the rubber sections in the side, I think it would work.

[itlnstln]

The o-ring plan won't work.  I just realized in the link at the top, the slider has to be designed to take the damper.  The sliders in the Dell (and, most likely, the Northgate) won't be able to take the damper.  Back to the neoprene.  If you wanted to this mod right, you would have to pull the sliders from an Apple or SGI.

EDIT: This is confirmed in Wellington's post about taking apart an Alps switch.

[wellington1869]

The o-ring plan won't work.  I just realized in the link at the top, the slider has to be designed to take the damper.  The sliders in the Dell (and, most likely, the Northgate) won't be able to take the damper.  Back to the neoprene.  If you wanted to this mod right, you would have to pull the sliders from an Apple or SGI.

EDIT: This is confirmed in Wellington's post about taking apart an Alps switch.

Oh I see what you mean, the plunger needs a notch where the damper goes. (its a pity because o-ring could have been squeezed into a nice "8" shape and would look pretty much like the original dampers)

but then how would neoprene work? You mean you'd put neoprene on the casing-tabs where the plunger hits, and not on the plunger itself?

[itlnstln]

You mean you'd put neoprene on the casing-tabs where the plunger hits, and not on the plunger itself?

Exactly.  I think it might be more of a PITA than it's worth.  I'll have to try a few keys and see how it goes.

[itlnstln]

Oh I see what you mean, the plunger needs a notch where the damper goes. (its a pity because o-ring could have been squeezed into a nice "8" shape and would look pretty much like the original dampers)

Actually, I was just at a co-worker's desk who has braces, and the rubber bands/elastics that are used with braces sometimes would be a perfect fit.

[wellington1869]

Exactly.  I think it might be more of a PITA than it's worth.  I'll have to try a few keys and see how it goes.

hell, electrical tape might work better cuz its thinner? Or elmers glue applied with a nail polish brush might be easier. Both would dampen the clack I think (tho not as much as neoprene, but might be easier to apply).

I guess then thats what I have to do too -- for my clacky spacebar -- stick something on the casing. I think i'll try elec tape first, elmers glue second. (I might also try a small drop of elmers on the plunger "ledge" too, the "ledge" that makes contact with the casing tabs).

(nice thing about elmers is you can wash it off if it doesnt work

[wellington1869]

Actually, I was just at a co-worker's desk who has braces, and the rubber bands/elastics that are used with braces sometimes would be a perfect fit.

good idea. (I'll hold him down and you grab the bands!)

[wellington1869]

hey, what model apple extended ii keyboard do you need? I just checked on ebay and there are a bunch selling under $10. Is that not the right model?

Whats the model number you need? In that list there are also "parts" boards being sold for a few bucks.
(looks like the m3501 is what you want, right? there are a bunch under $10!) Buy and harvest!

Here is helpful info on disassembling an apple ii extended (m3501). (the web page is wonky cuz there are floating ads in the way, but you can copy/paste the main text into a word doc and read it there...)

[itlnstln]

I bought one of the "parts-only" 'boards for $11 shipped.  I'll try changing the sliders out in a couple of weeks when I am on vacation.  Good lookin' out, Wellington.

[wellington1869]

I bought one of the "parts-only" 'boards for $11 shipped.  I'll try changing the sliders out in a couple of weeks when I am on vacation.

so that was you! I was wondering where it vanished to, lol

Good lookin' out, Wellington.

no prob, though if you wind up with one spare plunger/damper, let me know, I could prolly use it for my spacebar

[itlnstln]

I think several of the models have Alps switches, but you might also try to see if the seller could take a quick picture with a keycap pulled.

[wellington1869]

I bought one of the "parts-only" 'boards for $11 shipped.

do the different part numbers matter? Both m2980 and m3501 were advertised as "apple ii extended". [update: never mind, wikipedia says this about the m2980: "This was the first major redesign of the Apple keyboard, featuring more fluid, curving lines to match the look of the new Apple product style. It was an unpopular replacement for the Apple Extended Keyboard II in 1994. Significantly lighter than its predecessors, it had a much softer and quieter key interface that was unpopular with many typists."]

additionally wikipedia mentions another board, m0312.

(M0312) was manufactured with the classic Alps mechanisms
(M3501) was manufactured with Mitsumi or Alps mechanisms.

Appears there are several m3501's for about $25 to $30, shipped.

[itlnstln]

I'll definitely send you one.  I will only dampen the letters on the Evolution.  I am not going to mess with the numpad, F-keys, etc.  Sorry about jackin' your 'board, though.

[wellington1869]

I'll definitely send you one.  I will only dampen the letters on the Evolution.  I am not going to mess with the numpad, F-keys, etc.

Funny, I want the exact opposite I'd like to dampen spacebar mainly, but also possibly the enter key and backspace.

 Sorry about jackin' your 'board, though.

haha! s'okay, I really only need one plunger so the universe is better served with it in your hands  PM me once you get it and I'll give you my mailing address.  Thanks!!

[itlnstln]

This will help with your search:

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ko&u=http://www.kbdmania.net/board/zboard.php%3Fid%3Dspecs%26page%3D1%26sn1%3D%26divpage%3D1%26category%3D3%26sn%3Doff%26ss%3Don%26sc%3Don%26select_arrange%3Dheadnum%26desc%3Dasc%26no%3D129&sa=X&oi=translate&resnum=4&ct=result&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dapple%2Bkeyboard%2Bm0487%2Balps%26hl%3Den%26rls%3Dcom.microsoft:en-us%26sa%3DN

The other models are listed toward the bottom.

[itlnstln]

The kbmania post shows that the M2980 is rubber dome, but the picture from the ebay auction I won clearly shows Alps switches.  Hmm...

[wellington1869]

Thanks.

You know you could also just use the apple board as is (without swapping plungers). XS has a few spare imates he's selling for real cheap

[wellington1869]

The kbmania post shows that the M2980 is rubber dome, but the picture from the ebay auction I won clearly shows Alps switches.  Hmm...

I was wondering about that. The pic did look like alps, but the wikipedia description doesnt match either.

[itlnstln]

Thanks.

You know you could also just use the apple board as is (without swapping plungers). XS has a few spare imates he's selling for real cheap

For one, the 'board I bought doesn't work.  Also, I want the split-ergo layout of my Northgate.

I was wondering about that. The pic did look like alps, but the wikipedia description doesnt match either.

True, unless the "softer and quieter" mechanism refers to the rubber dampers in the switch.

[lowpoly]

(M3501) was manufactured with Mitsumi or Alps mechanisms.

I added that "or Alps" to Wikipedia because my 3501 has Alps switches.