Author Topic: First night with Topre (FC660C)...  (Read 8931 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline swill

  • * Elevated Elder
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 3365
  • Location: Canada eh
  • builder & enabler
    • swillkb.com
First night with Topre (FC660C)...
« on: Mon, 04 November 2013, 20:21:17 »
My daily driver is a Filco TKL w/ Browns.  I have o-rings and thick pbt caps on it.  I found that the o-rings and the thick pbt caps made a huge difference in the typing feel on my Filco.  A little softer when bottoming out and I liked the slightly reduced keystroke length.  I found the thick pbt caps to be a huge quality of life improvement because it almost completely removed the 'clackiness' when bottoming out.

I had really mixed feelings about trying Topre switches.  I really enjoy my mx browns and I didn't want topre to ruin them for me.  At the same time, I had to know what they were all about. 

So here I am, switching back and forth between them to see what all the fuss is about... 

I find that my MX switches make a lot more noise than these topre switches do.  I think a lot of that comes down the the amount of movement in the MX switches in comparison with the topre switches.  The topre switches feel very solid in comparison to the mx.  When I rub my finger back and forth across the top of a keycap on the mx, I can hear plastic on plastic of the components of the switch hitting each other.  When I do the same thing on the topre there is almost no sound even though the actual keycap moves just as much.  Even though the keycap moves as much on the topre, it feel a lot more solid and concise.  It feels a little like the mx switches are wearing pants one size too big and the topre switches are wearing skinny jeans.  No idea if that makes any sense...

I feel that this topre board has a very pleasant bottom out feel.  It feels a little like I am bottoming out on a rubber plate.  When I bottom out it feels a little like the keycap is rebounding off the plate, but in a very subtle way.  It feels a little bit like the ultimate o-ring mod for an mx.

When people talk about topre they always seem to focus on the actuation point and the tactile bump.  I think that feels pretty much as expected, but the overall feel of the keyboard is not really what I was expecting.  I don't know how to describe it without using words that sound wrong.  It feels solid, smooth and refined.  It feels a little bit like a trampoline.  When you jump on a trampoline, the material is not solid under you, but as you reach the bottom of your jump, you feel totally supported as it begins to lift you back up.  You get a seamless sensation as you jump.  Compare this to MX which feel a little more like jumping on roofing tin or sheet metal.  You can put stuff under the sheet metal to make it feel better, but you are still jumping on sheet metal.  Not sure if that is going to make any sense either.

I am not going to say that this is the best thing since sliced bread though.  I do love the feel and I think I am probably going to get more topre boards in the future, but I still do like the clickity clack of an mx board too.  They are just different.  I will use my topre board when sipping fine wine and I will use my mx board when I feel like I want to break someones face...  haha...

All in all I am very happy with this keyboard and I look forward to using it a lot.  Now I have to figure out which keyboard goes to work and which one stays at home.  I may have to game on topre switches a bit to see if it is as good as my browns for gaming.  I feel like I will probably prefer gaming on my browns, so we will see...

I am still going to build my mx 60% board as well as a 40% and a GHpad when they are ready.  Guess we will see how this all plays out...

And now for some pictures...
42538-0
42540-1
42542-2

Offline dustinhxc

  • * Exalted Elder
  • Posts: 6744
  • Location: MN
  • IV
Re: First night with Topre (FC660C)...
« Reply #1 on: Mon, 04 November 2013, 20:37:37 »
Oh wow that makes me want to try that out !

Offline muad

  • Posts: 98
Re: First night with Topre (FC660C)...
« Reply #2 on: Mon, 04 November 2013, 20:39:52 »
What a sexy board... Treat her right!  :thumb:

Oh and I want to draw attention to the fact that the legends on that board don't seem to be wearing as fast as the the first batch of fc600c...
« Last Edit: Mon, 04 November 2013, 20:41:28 by muad »

Offline 1pq

  • Posts: 669
  • Location: East Coast USA
  • Hipster Doofus
Re: First night with Topre (FC660C)...
« Reply #3 on: Mon, 04 November 2013, 20:43:18 »
You got it!
I'm excitedly awaiting mine. Put in the order yesterday...hope it comes this week. I can't wait to try topre for the first time.
main kbs:  87UB (55g)  Custom Filco TKL (62g clears)

WTS JD40, Custom Ergoclear Filco

WTB ROHS Red BBv2 (Topre), OG EK Tri-Color Skull (TOPRE)

Offline Emospence

  • Posts: 316
  • Location: Singapore
Re: First night with Topre (FC660C)...
« Reply #4 on: Mon, 04 November 2013, 20:46:53 »
Hot.. Just don't really like how the arrow keys and insert/del look sticking out like that
Keyboards: Topre Realforce 87UW 55g x 2
Mice: Zowie EC1 eVo CL x 2
Mousepads: Artisan Hien VE x 2, Razer Mantis Speed

Offline Sniping

  • Posts: 862
  • Location: California
Re: First night with Topre (FC660C)...
« Reply #5 on: Mon, 04 November 2013, 20:51:50 »
Hot.. Just don't really like how the arrow keys and insert/del look sticking out like that

Oh, that's easy. Just replace with two of your favorite Topre novelty keys. They're essentially clack holders for me :)

Thanks for posting your impressions! I enjoyed reading it. This is kind of unrelated but have you tried reversing the space bar on your keybaords? It's usually more comfortable that way for most people.

Offline Flyersfan1

  • * Destiny Supporter
  • Posts: 1209
  • Location: Philadelphia
  • Hi!
Re: First night with Topre (FC660C)...
« Reply #6 on: Mon, 04 November 2013, 21:04:35 »
I really enjoyed reading your write-up Swill, the FC660C is a great topre board, I really think Leopold hit a home run with that one.  I unfortunately didn't like gaming on Topre switches too much, but I know they work perfectly fine for a lot of people and I hope you find them suitable as well.  I'm actually in kind of the opposite situation as you and am looking at picking up a Filco TKL with Browns to be a dedicated gaming board and for something to switch back and forth with.
Quote from: Photekq
i know people who think salt is spicy

Offline jabar

  • Posts: 848
  • Location: TX, USA
Re: First night with Topre (FC660C)...
« Reply #7 on: Mon, 04 November 2013, 21:05:53 »
It's my favorite over HHKB, except that the Caps lock light doesn't illuminate when the Ctrl <> CAPS DIP switch is enabled.
Leopold FC660C - Max Keyboard Nighthawk X8 - Ducky DK9008 Shine II 78 Edition - Noppoo Choc Mini - Cherry G80-2100HDD - Cherry G80-8113HDPUS - Plu-M87 - Leopold FC700R Ergo Clears - Deck Legend Frost 105 - IBM F PC Keyboard - IBM M 122 (Lexmark) - Apple Extended Keyboard II

Phantom 7bit

Offline Belfong

  • * Exalted Elder
  • Posts: 5228
  • Location: Malaysia
Re: First night with Topre (FC660C)...
« Reply #8 on: Mon, 04 November 2013, 21:14:08 »
My first Topre, a HHKB, is coming next week and I really enjoyed your write up. I was going back and forth between greeting a HHKB or FC660C because I love the cursor keys on 660C. But I finally decided on the HHKB because I knew that of I got a 660 and I liked Topre, this curious heart of mine will yearn for the HHKB so why not get the best from the start.

Your post made me wonder if I should have settled for 660C. Sigh!!
 

Offline Emospence

  • Posts: 316
  • Location: Singapore
Re: First night with Topre (FC660C)...
« Reply #9 on: Mon, 04 November 2013, 21:21:24 »
My first Topre, a HHKB, is coming next week and I really enjoyed your write up. I was going back and forth between greeting a HHKB or FC660C because I love the cursor keys on 660C. But I finally decided on the HHKB because I knew that of I got a 660 and I liked Topre, this curious heart of mine will yearn for the HHKB so why not get the best from the start.

Your post made me wonder if I should have settled for 660C. Sigh!!

HHKB looks sexier!

FC660C never interested me much but if you're wondering, you will probably end up with both.. :p

Myself, I'm waiting for RF 55g to be back in stock..
Keyboards: Topre Realforce 87UW 55g x 2
Mice: Zowie EC1 eVo CL x 2
Mousepads: Artisan Hien VE x 2, Razer Mantis Speed

Offline Flyersfan1

  • * Destiny Supporter
  • Posts: 1209
  • Location: Philadelphia
  • Hi!
Re: First night with Topre (FC660C)...
« Reply #10 on: Mon, 04 November 2013, 21:36:43 »
My first Topre, a HHKB, is coming next week and I really enjoyed your write up. I was going back and forth between greeting a HHKB or FC660C because I love the cursor keys on 660C. But I finally decided on the HHKB because I knew that of I got a 660 and I liked Topre, this curious heart of mine will yearn for the HHKB so why not get the best from the start.

Your post made me wonder if I should have settled for 660C. Sigh!!
You will love the HHKB! One thing you won't have to worry about is the keycaps fading (If you got one with legends) as they are dye-sub, which is exponentially better than the pad printed keys on the fc660c.  I hope Leopold releases some replacement keycaps for their topre board soon!
Quote from: Photekq
i know people who think salt is spicy

Offline spiceBar

  • Posts: 998
    • ChessTiger.com
Re: First night with Topre (FC660C)...
« Reply #11 on: Mon, 04 November 2013, 21:46:52 »
(snipped) It feels a little like I am bottoming out on a rubber plate.

You ARE bottoming out on a rubber plate. When you are bottoming out, the conical spring is totally flat on the PCB, and above it is the top of the rubber dome, which is thicker that the rest of the dome. The two legs of the plunger are also stopped by the rubber around the dome.

So you are absolutely correct: you are bottoming out on rubber.

Offline swill

  • * Elevated Elder
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 3365
  • Location: Canada eh
  • builder & enabler
    • swillkb.com
Re: First night with Topre (FC660C)...
« Reply #12 on: Mon, 04 November 2013, 22:02:46 »
What a sexy board... Treat her right!  :thumb:

Oh and I want to draw attention to the fact that the legends on that board don't seem to be wearing as fast as the the first batch of fc600c...

Thanks maud...  He is the previous owner.  :)

Offline swill

  • * Elevated Elder
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 3365
  • Location: Canada eh
  • builder & enabler
    • swillkb.com
Re: First night with Topre (FC660C)...
« Reply #13 on: Mon, 04 November 2013, 22:05:12 »
Hot.. Just don't really like how the arrow keys and insert/del look sticking out like that

I am a software developer, so I am pretty dependant on my arrow keys at this point.  Now that I know I like Topre, I may consider getting an HHKB and see if I can deal with its arrow cluster.

Offline swill

  • * Elevated Elder
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 3365
  • Location: Canada eh
  • builder & enabler
    • swillkb.com
Re: First night with Topre (FC660C)...
« Reply #14 on: Mon, 04 November 2013, 22:07:59 »
Hot.. Just don't really like how the arrow keys and insert/del look sticking out like that

Oh, that's easy. Just replace with two of your favorite Topre novelty keys. They're essentially clack holders for me :)

Thanks for posting your impressions! I enjoyed reading it. This is kind of unrelated but have you tried reversing the space bar on your keybaords? It's usually more comfortable that way for most people.

I have tried turning the spacebar around (not on a topre though).  I found it to be too high for my liking and kinda gabbed into my thumb when I hit it.  I turned it back around after about an hour cause it was bothering me.  I just tried to remove the spacebar on this keyboard and it was proving difficult, so I gave up.  :)

Offline swill

  • * Elevated Elder
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 3365
  • Location: Canada eh
  • builder & enabler
    • swillkb.com
Re: First night with Topre (FC660C)...
« Reply #15 on: Mon, 04 November 2013, 22:11:35 »
I really enjoyed reading your write-up Swill, the FC660C is a great topre board, I really think Leopold hit a home run with that one.  I unfortunately didn't like gaming on Topre switches too much, but I know they work perfectly fine for a lot of people and I hope you find them suitable as well.  I'm actually in kind of the opposite situation as you and am looking at picking up a Filco TKL with Browns to be a dedicated gaming board and for something to switch back and forth with.

I played a few games of LOL tonight and i didn't really notice it too much.  I found that they felt a little heavier than my browns when I was trying to do things quickly.  It did not take long to become comfortable with it, but we will see.  I am finding that my fingers get more tired on this keyboard than my Filco with browns.  It may just be because I have worked a full day and have been typing quite a bit tonight.  Are these 55g switches in the FC660C?

Offline swill

  • * Elevated Elder
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 3365
  • Location: Canada eh
  • builder & enabler
    • swillkb.com
Re: First night with Topre (FC660C)...
« Reply #16 on: Mon, 04 November 2013, 22:13:36 »
My first Topre, a HHKB, is coming next week and I really enjoyed your write up. I was going back and forth between greeting a HHKB or FC660C because I love the cursor keys on 660C. But I finally decided on the HHKB because I knew that of I got a 660 and I liked Topre, this curious heart of mine will yearn for the HHKB so why not get the best from the start.

Your post made me wonder if I should have settled for 660C. Sigh!!

Haha, ya I am still in the market for an HHKB.  I think I am going to take this keyboard to work (well maybe not right away) and keep the Filco and an HHKB for home.  This board does feel very nice.  It is just so smooth...

Offline swill

  • * Elevated Elder
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 3365
  • Location: Canada eh
  • builder & enabler
    • swillkb.com
Re: First night with Topre (FC660C)...
« Reply #17 on: Mon, 04 November 2013, 22:15:53 »
(snipped) It feels a little like I am bottoming out on a rubber plate.

You ARE bottoming out on a rubber plate. When you are bottoming out, the conical spring is totally flat on the PCB, and above it is the top of the rubber dome, which is thicker that the rest of the dome. The two legs of the plunger are also stopped by the rubber around the dome.

So you are absolutely correct: you are bottoming out on rubber.

I had no idea that was the case before I started typing on them.  I have to admit, that is one of my favorite things about this keyboard right now.  It really does feel nice when you bottom out.

Offline SpAmRaY

  • NOT a Moderator
  • * Certified Spammer
  • Posts: 14667
  • Location: ¯\(°_o)/¯
  • because reasons.......
Re: First night with Topre (FC660C)...
« Reply #18 on: Mon, 04 November 2013, 22:17:29 »
All I read was the title....is it like a sleepover or something :P

Offline Emospence

  • Posts: 316
  • Location: Singapore
Re: First night with Topre (FC660C)...
« Reply #19 on: Mon, 04 November 2013, 23:20:54 »
All I read was the title....is it like a sleepover or something :P

First time you took a girl (or guy) home  :))
Keyboards: Topre Realforce 87UW 55g x 2
Mice: Zowie EC1 eVo CL x 2
Mousepads: Artisan Hien VE x 2, Razer Mantis Speed

Offline rowdy

  • HHKB Hapster
  • * Erudite Elder
  • Posts: 21175
  • Location: melbourne.vic.au
  • Missed another sale.
Re: First night with Topre (FC660C)...
« Reply #20 on: Mon, 04 November 2013, 23:39:58 »
All I read was the title....is it like a sleepover or something :P

First time you took a girl (or guy) home  :))

First time you took a girl (or guy) home and showed them your keyboard collection :))
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

Ị̸͚̯̲́ͤ̃͑̇̑ͯ̊̂͟ͅs̞͚̩͉̝̪̲͗͊ͪ̽̚̚ ̭̦͖͕̑́͌ͬͩ͟t̷̻͔̙̑͟h̹̠̼͋ͤ͋i̤̜̣̦̱̫͈͔̞ͭ͑ͥ̌̔s̬͔͎̍̈ͥͫ̐̾ͣ̔̇͘ͅ ̩̘̼͆̐̕e̞̰͓̲̺̎͐̏ͬ̓̅̾͠͝ͅv̶̰͕̱̞̥̍ͣ̄̕e͕͙͖̬̜͓͎̤̊ͭ͐͝ṇ̰͎̱̤̟̭ͫ͌̌͢͠ͅ ̳̥̦ͮ̐ͤ̎̊ͣ͡͡n̤̜̙̺̪̒͜e̶̻̦̿ͮ̂̀c̝̘̝͖̠̖͐ͨͪ̈̐͌ͩ̀e̷̥͇̋ͦs̢̡̤ͤͤͯ͜s͈̠̉̑͘a̱͕̗͖̳̥̺ͬͦͧ͆̌̑͡r̶̟̖̈͘ỷ̮̦̩͙͔ͫ̾ͬ̔ͬͮ̌?̵̘͇͔͙ͥͪ͞ͅ

Offline Sniping

  • Posts: 862
  • Location: California
Re: First night with Topre (FC660C)...
« Reply #21 on: Mon, 04 November 2013, 23:40:09 »
Hot.. Just don't really like how the arrow keys and insert/del look sticking out like that

Oh, that's easy. Just replace with two of your favorite Topre novelty keys. They're essentially clack holders for me :)

Thanks for posting your impressions! I enjoyed reading it. This is kind of unrelated but have you tried reversing the space bar on your keybaords? It's usually more comfortable that way for most people.


I have tried turning the spacebar around (not on a topre though).  I found it to be too high for my liking and kinda gabbed into my thumb when I hit it.  I turned it back around after about an hour cause it was bothering me.  I just tried to remove the spacebar on this keyboard and it was proving difficult, so I gave up.  :)

Take off the Alt keys on both sides, and just lift up the spacebar using equal upward force.

Offline Belfong

  • * Exalted Elder
  • Posts: 5228
  • Location: Malaysia
Re: First night with Topre (FC660C)...
« Reply #22 on: Mon, 04 November 2013, 23:50:15 »

My first Topre, a HHKB, is coming next week and I really enjoyed your write up. I was going back and forth between greeting a HHKB or FC660C because I love the cursor keys on 660C. But I finally decided on the HHKB because I knew that of I got a 660 and I liked Topre, this curious heart of mine will yearn for the HHKB so why not get the best from the start.

Your post made me wonder if I should have settled for 660C. Sigh!!

HHKB looks sexier!

FC660C never interested me much but if you're wondering, you will probably end up with both.. :p

Myself, I'm waiting for RF 55g to be back in stock..

I need to stop spending so I will be happy with the HHKB. What's not to like, right? Topre and a alien layout. With 660C, it is still a TKL like layout, so it's really just Topre that is different.

I'm done you hear!!! No more keyboard for at least 5 years!!!
 

Offline Emospence

  • Posts: 316
  • Location: Singapore
Re: First night with Topre (FC660C)...
« Reply #23 on: Tue, 05 November 2013, 00:06:01 »
I need to stop spending so I will be happy with the HHKB. What's not to like, right? Topre and a alien layout. With 660C, it is still a TKL like layout, so it's really just Topre that is different.

I'm done you hear!!! No more keyboard for at least 5 years!!!

But... HHKB no haz 55g switches..

I hope to be done after getting 2 55g RFs but those green keycaps would match my room so well..
Keyboards: Topre Realforce 87UW 55g x 2
Mice: Zowie EC1 eVo CL x 2
Mousepads: Artisan Hien VE x 2, Razer Mantis Speed

Offline SpAmRaY

  • NOT a Moderator
  • * Certified Spammer
  • Posts: 14667
  • Location: ¯\(°_o)/¯
  • because reasons.......
Re: First night with Topre (FC660C)...
« Reply #24 on: Tue, 05 November 2013, 02:36:45 »
I need to stop spending so I will be happy with the HHKB. What's not to like, right? Topre and a alien layout. With 660C, it is still a TKL like layout, so it's really just Topre that is different.

I'm done you hear!!! No more keyboard for at least 5 years!!!

But... HHKB no haz 55g switches..

I hope to be done after getting 2 55g RFs but those green keycaps would match my room so well..

It might not come stick with 55g but that doesn't mean you can't swap them in!

Offline tbc

  • Posts: 2365
Re: First night with Topre (FC660C)...
« Reply #25 on: Tue, 05 November 2013, 02:50:52 »
are there custom cases for fc660c?  I know rf boards get a lot of aluminum cases, but is that it?  are you stuck with swapping keycaps?
ALL zombros wanted:  dead or undead or dead-dead.

Offline rowdy

  • HHKB Hapster
  • * Erudite Elder
  • Posts: 21175
  • Location: melbourne.vic.au
  • Missed another sale.
Re: First night with Topre (FC660C)...
« Reply #26 on: Tue, 05 November 2013, 02:59:46 »
are there custom cases for fc660c?  I know rf boards get a lot of aluminum cases, but is that it?  are you stuck with swapping keycaps?

Yeah, good luck swapping keycaps too - those from a RF will kinda fit, not sure about the right shift though.
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

Ị̸͚̯̲́ͤ̃͑̇̑ͯ̊̂͟ͅs̞͚̩͉̝̪̲͗͊ͪ̽̚̚ ̭̦͖͕̑́͌ͬͩ͟t̷̻͔̙̑͟h̹̠̼͋ͤ͋i̤̜̣̦̱̫͈͔̞ͭ͑ͥ̌̔s̬͔͎̍̈ͥͫ̐̾ͣ̔̇͘ͅ ̩̘̼͆̐̕e̞̰͓̲̺̎͐̏ͬ̓̅̾͠͝ͅv̶̰͕̱̞̥̍ͣ̄̕e͕͙͖̬̜͓͎̤̊ͭ͐͝ṇ̰͎̱̤̟̭ͫ͌̌͢͠ͅ ̳̥̦ͮ̐ͤ̎̊ͣ͡͡n̤̜̙̺̪̒͜e̶̻̦̿ͮ̂̀c̝̘̝͖̠̖͐ͨͪ̈̐͌ͩ̀e̷̥͇̋ͦs̢̡̤ͤͤͯ͜s͈̠̉̑͘a̱͕̗͖̳̥̺ͬͦͧ͆̌̑͡r̶̟̖̈͘ỷ̮̦̩͙͔ͫ̾ͬ̔ͬͮ̌?̵̘͇͔͙ͥͪ͞ͅ

Offline tuxsavvy

  • Posts: 441
  • 白HHKBの魔法使い
Re: First night with Topre (FC660C)...
« Reply #27 on: Tue, 05 November 2013, 04:56:34 »
I am going to have to truncate your post swill but at the same time I want to thank you for taking your time out in comparing MX against Topre.
I had really mixed feelings about trying Topre switches.  I really enjoy my mx browns and I didn't want topre to ruin them for me.  At the same time, I had to know what they were all about. 

So here I am, switching back and forth between them to see what all the fuss is about... 

I find that my MX switches make a lot more noise than these topre switches do.  I think a lot of that comes down the the amount of movement in the MX switches in comparison with the topre switches.  The topre switches feel very solid in comparison to the mx.  When I rub my finger back and forth across the top of a keycap on the mx, I can hear plastic on plastic of the components of the switch hitting each other.  When I do the same thing on the topre there is almost no sound even though the actual keycap moves just as much.  Even though the keycap moves as much on the topre, it feel a lot more solid and concise.  It feels a little like the mx switches are wearing pants one size too big and the topre switches are wearing skinny jeans.  No idea if that makes any sense...

I feel that this topre board has a very pleasant bottom out feel.  It feels a little like I am bottoming out on a rubber plate.  When I bottom out it feels a little like the keycap is rebounding off the plate, but in a very subtle way.  It feels a little bit like the ultimate o-ring mod for an mx.

When people talk about topre they always seem to focus on the actuation point and the tactile bump.  I think that feels pretty much as expected, but the overall feel of the keyboard is not really what I was expecting.  I don't know how to describe it without using words that sound wrong.  It feels solid, smooth and refined.  It feels a little bit like a trampoline.  When you jump on a trampoline, the material is not solid under you, but as you reach the bottom of your jump, you feel totally supported as it begins to lift you back up.  You get a seamless sensation as you jump.  Compare this to MX which feel a little more like jumping on roofing tin or sheet metal.  You can put stuff under the sheet metal to make it feel better, but you are still jumping on sheet metal.  Not sure if that is going to make any sense either.

I am not going to say that this is the best thing since sliced bread though.  I do love the feel and I think I am probably going to get more topre boards in the future, but I still do like the clickity clack of an mx board too.  They are just different.  I will use my topre board when sipping fine wine and I will use my mx board when I feel like I want to break someones face...  haha...

All in all I am very happy with this keyboard and I look forward to using it a lot.  Now I have to figure out which keyboard goes to work and which one stays at home.  I may have to game on topre switches a bit to see if it is as good as my browns for gaming.  I feel like I will probably prefer gaming on my browns, so we will see...

I am still going to build my mx 60% board as well as a 40% and a GHpad when they are ready.  Guess we will see how this all plays out...


This was more or less the sort of information that I have been wanting to hear. I personally never have tried MX switches though I believe my brother is/was getting a board with MX switches (he might already have them now). Though Topre keyboards without a doubt carries a fair amount of price tag over virtually any MX based keyboard. The case is even more exceptionally prevalent when one compares HHKB over 60% boards featuring MX switches. For that sort of price tag it often makes one wonder have their monies been spent in a rather wise manner.

I have read a fair few threads, asked a fair few people and what not about MX over Topre but often at times after laying down my money for one I can almost always picture myself sort of regretting on my HHKB purchase. The end result makes me wanting to put a "thick face" over my preference so as to prevent being demoralised over mere keyboard switch preference. Novelty factors quickly wears off as soon as one gets the urge of spending that money, once the novelty wears off it simply becomes one needing to find reasons for satisfaction rather than the thought of being humiliated for just a keyboard purchase.

I can only imagine what typing on MX would feel like but having never owned let alone touched one it would be hard for me to be able to describe the exact feeling.

As for your comment in relation to gaming, I too could personally imagine gaming on a rather expensive Topre switch keyboard would sort of be a waste to me. Of course this is just my mere opinion on the subject, I could imagine in theory gaming on my HHKB would probably be nice but at the same time I would be mashing (thereby prematurely wearing) the keys. Besides it was already noted that Topre has rubber dome and in which there was at one stage discussions about those rubber domes wearing.

Anyhow, thanks for your review and your inputs on MX over Topre. The feeling of not seeing money not well spent for me is not as imminent. Someday I will eventually get a MX based board and would also hopefully find the worthiness of Topre in regards to money justification.
HHKB Pro JP Type-S | Northgate Omnikey 101 | APC/"Clicker" F-21 (GOG3YL) | Cherry G80-5000 HAMDE

僕の日本語が下手です。我的中文也一樣爛。

Offline vivalarevolución

  • Posts: 2146
  • Location: Naptown, Indiana, USA
  • Keep it real b/c any other way is too stressful
Re: First night with Topre (FC660C)...
« Reply #28 on: Tue, 05 November 2013, 05:26:06 »
Topre as a trampoline.  Best description that I have heard yet.
Wish I had some gif or quote for this space, but I got nothing

Offline SpAmRaY

  • NOT a Moderator
  • * Certified Spammer
  • Posts: 14667
  • Location: ¯\(°_o)/¯
  • because reasons.......
Re: First night with Topre (FC660C)...
« Reply #29 on: Tue, 05 November 2013, 06:56:29 »
are there custom cases for fc660c?  I know rf boards get a lot of aluminum cases, but is that it?  are you stuck with swapping keycaps?

Yeah, good luck swapping keycaps too - those from a RF will kinda fit, not sure about the right shift though.

And I think the spacebar is oddly sized, maybe the whole bottom row.

Offline goobus

  • HHKB Elite
  • Posts: 179
  • Location: Hong Kong
Re: First night with Topre (FC660C)...
« Reply #30 on: Tue, 05 November 2013, 07:02:41 »
Does anyone else have the problem where the caps lock and tab key makes a crazy hollow sound when it rebounds? Or do I have to send mine back to EK?

Offline muad

  • Posts: 98
Re: First night with Topre (FC660C)...
« Reply #31 on: Tue, 05 November 2013, 11:21:05 »
That's normal. The keys rebound and hit plastic on plastic. There's a thread on geekhack on silencing topre switches by adding some material between the switch housing and the stem. It is essentially how they create the silenced realforce and hhkb keyboards.

Offline spiceBar

  • Posts: 998
    • ChessTiger.com
Re: First night with Topre (FC660C)...
« Reply #32 on: Tue, 05 November 2013, 14:06:32 »
Yes, here:
  http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=49046.msg1056220#msg1056220

But I think goobus knows about it already.

Offline 00zeRO

  • mechanicalkeyboards.com
  • * Commercial Vendor
  • Posts: 2372
  • Location: Tennessee
  • The 00verseer of Vault 77
    • Mechanical Keyboards
Re: First night with Topre (FC660C)...
« Reply #33 on: Tue, 05 November 2013, 14:22:51 »
For the sake of not lurking...pssst!

So far Topres don't do it if for me...everybody has their likes. At least it ain't a dumbdomedell... :blank:
Daily Driver: Typist A w/Midnight Dawn | Kailh BOX Clicks

          
Junktown 2: Now on eBay!

Offline swill

  • * Elevated Elder
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 3365
  • Location: Canada eh
  • builder & enabler
    • swillkb.com
Re: First night with Topre (FC660C)...
« Reply #34 on: Tue, 05 November 2013, 15:10:04 »
For the sake of not lurking...pssst!

So far Topres don't do it if for me...everybody has their likes. At least it ain't a dumbdomedell... :blank:

Your lucky.  Your tastes are probably a lot cheaper.  :)

Offline swill

  • * Elevated Elder
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 3365
  • Location: Canada eh
  • builder & enabler
    • swillkb.com
Re: First night with Topre (FC660C)...
« Reply #35 on: Tue, 05 November 2013, 15:16:18 »
I took the keyboard to work with me today and I am liking it more and more.  I find the arrow cluster to be in the perfect location.  I find the arrow layout much more comfortable than at TKL.  On my TKL I would go to put my hands on the arrows and for some reason or other miss them and have to look down at the keyboard.  On this one, I move my hand to the arrows and they are exactly where my hands expect them to be.  Thats awesome...

The one thing I have found to be a bit annoying is that there is only one windows key.  I am using a Mac, so I swap my windows and alt keys which puts my windows keys (command on a Mac) on both sides of my spacebar.  I use the windows key on the right side of the space bar very often because I do things like 'windows + [' and 'windows + ]' to tab blocks of code left and right.  I am going to have to find a solution for this.

Maybe I will have to use KeyRemap4Macbook instead of the dip switch to change my windows key to alt and the alt key(s) to windows.  I only use the alt key on the left side of the keyboard anyway...

Any other solutions for this problem?

Offline goobus

  • HHKB Elite
  • Posts: 179
  • Location: Hong Kong
Re: First night with Topre (FC660C)...
« Reply #36 on: Wed, 06 November 2013, 01:03:06 »
That's normal. The keys rebound and hit plastic on plastic. There's a thread on geekhack on silencing topre switches by adding some material between the switch housing and the stem. It is essentially how they create the silenced realforce and hhkb keyboards.
Well I know about that, but the caps lock, tab and ctrl key have it really bad when it comes to that. Maybe it's just my imagination, but my Realforce unsilenced doesn't have the same problem. When I wobble those keys on the Leopold it seems they are very loose.

Offline spiceBar

  • Posts: 998
    • ChessTiger.com
Re: First night with Topre (FC660C)...
« Reply #37 on: Wed, 06 November 2013, 01:35:05 »
That's normal. The keys rebound and hit plastic on plastic. There's a thread on geekhack on silencing topre switches by adding some material between the switch housing and the stem. It is essentially how they create the silenced realforce and hhkb keyboards.
Well I know about that, but the caps lock, tab and ctrl key have it really bad when it comes to that. Maybe it's just my imagination, but my Realforce unsilenced doesn't have the same problem. When I wobble those keys on the Leopold it seems they are very loose.

To solve this problem, I removed the switch housing from the plate when I was doing the silencing mod, and I put high viscosity grease on the plate around the hole of the large, stabilized keys. Then I put the housings back.

The effect is that if the housing moves inside the plate hole, after putting grease it does not anymore. The high viscosity grease acts as a kind of glue/dampener.

I think you could easily check if the housing (black plastic) of these keys does not fit the metal plate perfectly. Just remove the keycap and check if the housing moves a little bit (and does some noise) when you tap on it with your finger.

I know that on my FC660C they did move a little bit and made noise, but I realized this only after disassembling the keyboard. So I don't know if they would still have moved with all the screws back in place. In doubt, I just put that grease. I may have solved a non-existant problem, but it doesn't hurt anyway.

The problem is that you cannot fix this without totally disassembling the keyboard, which takes some time. If you do disassemble it, you may as well try to silence it with landing pads, as I did.

Offline AuRinBei

  • Posts: 161
  • Location: Maryland
Re: First night with Topre (FC660C)...
« Reply #38 on: Wed, 06 November 2013, 10:40:37 »
Does anyone else have the problem where the caps lock and tab key makes a crazy hollow sound when it rebounds? Or do I have to send mine back to EK?

Thanks for making me notice... I only have it on my caps lock. I'm betting it's because it's the biggest unstabilized key. I wouldn't send it back for that unless it sounds really horrible though, and I use my caps locks as control.
87u || Poker 2

Offline spiceBar

  • Posts: 998
    • ChessTiger.com
Re: First night with Topre (FC660C)...
« Reply #39 on: Wed, 06 November 2013, 11:03:51 »
Does anyone else have the problem where the caps lock and tab key makes a crazy hollow sound when it rebounds? Or do I have to send mine back to EK?

Thanks for making me notice... I only have it on my caps lock. I'm betting it's because it's the biggest unstabilized key. I wouldn't send it back for that unless it sounds really horrible though, and I use my caps locks as control.

In this thread I have posted some pictures of the disassembled FC660C so you can see what's inside:
  http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=49046.msg1056220#msg1056220

Indeed, CapsLock is not stabilized. It is possible that just lubricating the round stem would improve things somehow.

You must not use oil. First, most oils would probably react with the rubber, and they would be too thin (liquid) anyway.

I would suggest something like the low-viscosity grease from EliteKeyboard. I have used for this in my Realforce:
  http://www.elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=access,misc&pid=mechlube_2

You should put a small amount around the stem to begin with. Then use the keyboard and you can decide to put a little bit more.

If you put too much on it, the key will seem to resist more to your press, which can be unpleasant.

Offline swill

  • * Elevated Elder
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 3365
  • Location: Canada eh
  • builder & enabler
    • swillkb.com
Re: First night with Topre (FC660C)...
« Reply #40 on: Wed, 06 November 2013, 11:11:26 »
I took the keyboard to work with me today and I am liking it more and more.  I find the arrow cluster to be in the perfect location.  I find the arrow layout much more comfortable than at TKL.  On my TKL I would go to put my hands on the arrows and for some reason or other miss them and have to look down at the keyboard.  On this one, I move my hand to the arrows and they are exactly where my hands expect them to be.  Thats awesome...

The one thing I have found to be a bit annoying is that there is only one windows key.  I am using a Mac, so I swap my windows and alt keys which puts my windows keys (command on a Mac) on both sides of my spacebar.  I use the windows key on the right side of the space bar very often because I do things like 'windows + [' and 'windows + ]' to tab blocks of code left and right.  I am going to have to find a solution for this.

Maybe I will have to use KeyRemap4Macbook instead of the dip switch to change my windows key to alt and the alt key(s) to windows.  I only use the alt key on the left side of the keyboard anyway...

Any other solutions for this problem?

I was able to use KeyRemap4Macbook to change both Alt (well Option in mac land) to Command and I changed the default Command (windows) key to Option (Alt).  Now I have Command on both sides of the spacebar and I only have the Alt key on the right side of the board.  This is the ideal setup for me.  Figured others may be interested in this solution...

Offline 1pq

  • Posts: 669
  • Location: East Coast USA
  • Hipster Doofus
Re: First night with Topre (FC660C)...
« Reply #41 on: Wed, 06 November 2013, 11:33:50 »
The one thing I have found to be a bit annoying is that there is only one windows key.  I am using a Mac, so I swap my windows and alt keys which puts my windows keys (command on a Mac) on both sides of my spacebar.  I use the windows key on the right side of the space bar very often because I do things like 'windows + [' and 'windows + ]' to tab blocks of code left and right.  I am going to have to find a solution for this.

Maybe I will have to use KeyRemap4Macbook instead of the dip switch to change my windows key to alt and the alt key(s) to windows.  I only use the alt key on the left side of the keyboard anyway...

Any other solutions for this problem?

You could use system preferences to swap your alt and windows keys. I believe this should also change the one on the right side of the spacebar (it does on the macbook I'm using now; I haven't gotten my FC660C yet). That would not affect your windows layout at all.
main kbs:  87UB (55g)  Custom Filco TKL (62g clears)

WTS JD40, Custom Ergoclear Filco

WTB ROHS Red BBv2 (Topre), OG EK Tri-Color Skull (TOPRE)

Offline swill

  • * Elevated Elder
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 3365
  • Location: Canada eh
  • builder & enabler
    • swillkb.com
Re: First night with Topre (FC660C)...
« Reply #42 on: Wed, 06 November 2013, 11:45:58 »
The one thing I have found to be a bit annoying is that there is only one windows key.  I am using a Mac, so I swap my windows and alt keys which puts my windows keys (command on a Mac) on both sides of my spacebar.  I use the windows key on the right side of the space bar very often because I do things like 'windows + [' and 'windows + ]' to tab blocks of code left and right.  I am going to have to find a solution for this.

Maybe I will have to use KeyRemap4Macbook instead of the dip switch to change my windows key to alt and the alt key(s) to windows.  I only use the alt key on the left side of the keyboard anyway...

Any other solutions for this problem?

You could use system preferences to swap your alt and windows keys. I believe this should also change the one on the right side of the spacebar (it does on the macbook I'm using now; I haven't gotten my FC660C yet). That would not affect your windows layout at all.

I tried that and yes it also works...  It changes both sides of the keyboard (as I wanted).  Thanks for pointing that out.  It is better to do it through the OS itself I think.