Tired of my 10 year old Dell, looking for my first upgrade.

[mmik]

It's... gross... you know.

I've been looking around and I have an idea of what I want, but I wanted to see if anyone could give me some suggestions based on actual experience, since this is my first delve into the keyboard scene.

I'm looking for something game-friendly, but I also like the compact look of the 60% boards. However, I feel sacrificing the arrow keys might just be a bit too much, so I'm looking for something compact, that includes the arrows, and has a fairly standard layout. (A lot of smaller boards that include arrows seem to have funky layouts.)
The only function key I use regularly is f5(refreshing, of course), so I don't need the F-row as long as there are easy alternatives. I guess right now I'm thinking of something like a Poker II, but with arrows, right?

I'm also not sure on what switches I want. It seems it's a choice between red and brown. I'm thinking I might try going to best buy and seeing if any of the gimmicky gaming keyboards there have switches I can get a feel for, since I don't want to spend 100+ dollars on one without even knowing what they're like.

[Melvang]

This is probably the closest you are going to get.  There are other keyboards like the Vortex Pure with dedicated arrow keys but I believe that the Leopold has the fewest non standard keys.

[mmik]

Yea I was reading a review on the leopold, and it was complaining that some of the keys (spacebar, notably) were nonstandard and really hard to replace. I'm hoping to get mostly black caps and some green, so I do think I'll be modding it.

What are your thoughts on the custom WASDkeyboards? Are they good quality? Overpriced? The smaller version doesn't look too bad, even though it could be smaller.

[Melvang]

I don't have any personal experience with them but I don't recall hearing much bad rep about them with the exception of the quality of the caps and legends.  They are thin abs which isn't a bad thing just not a prefered cap construction and the legends are either engraved/laser etched/infilled.  Again not bad but not optimal either.  For what they cost and the customization options available with them I don't see how you can go wrong with them.  Again let me state that I do not and have never had one of their boards so I am making generalizations from what I have read here.

Edit:  Just remembered.  You should look into details on the Poker II.  Iirc they are programmable or at least have the ability to lock right side modifier keys to arrow keys and do not have funny sized caps.  Plus a lot of custom case projects will allow this setup.

[mmik]

Yea I was really interested in the poker II, but the lack of arrow keys was a turnoff. I should look more into it I suppose. Does anyone here use one for games? And what color switches do you have?

[Morwrath]

I use a Ducky Mini which is basicly a Poker II with LEDs. You can use WASD as arrow keys if you use the FN-layer, just not sure if it works in all games.
Got brown switches on both my mechanical boards, and in my opinion they are good for both gaming and typing.

[FuriousGeorge]

A fellow GH'er is selling some Tex Beetles for a good price. I'm typing on one right now. They're a very nice board, but you do have the issue with non-standard cap sizes. That Leopold is probably closest to standard sizes in a 60% format.

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=50507.0;topicseen

[mmik]

Wow the filco ninja tenkeyless looks really nice, but it's so much money. I'd have to wait until next year, or even 2015 until I bother, with everything going on. this is a purchase I plan to make in the (near?) future, so I don't think that tex for sale is for me, but thanks for the heads-up; it looks like a good deal.

[00zeRO]

Have you looked into TKL's (tenkeyless) models? They are slightly more compact than a full, but you still get your arrow keys without sacrificing standard keys. I'm looking forward to the Ducky Shine 3 TKL's coming in...

and then the Shine 3 mini's whenever that will be... )

[mmik]

yea, like I said earlier, I really like the look of that filco ninja keyboard; it has sideprinted keys. It costs a lot, though, and I'm not sure the best place to buy it from. I saw listings on amazon for 250, but other places for 180. Filco looks like it's a good brand, though.

[00zeRO]

yea, like I said earlier, I really like the look of that filco ninja keyboard; it has sideprinted keys. It costs a lot, though, and I'm not sure the best place to buy it from. I saw listings on amazon for 250, but other places for 180. Filco looks like it's a good brand, though.

I'm with you on that, I love side printed keys...

[Hellmark]

How did you have a OEM rubberdome last 10 years? Longest I've ever had one last is 3. Most of the time, I don't even have them last a year (recently retired the dell keyboard I had at work after 6 months).

[mmik]

What I'd really like is a keyboard just like that one, but with a few green keys instead of black. I think maybe just WASD green, and sideprinted if I can.

Do you think nonsideprinted WASD would look weird if I couldn't find them?

Does anyone know if that keyboard is worth the cost, and how much I should actually pay for it? (180 was the lowest I could find.)

[mmik]

How did you have a OEM rubberdome last 10 years? Longest I've ever had one last is 3. Most of the time, I don't even have them last a year (recently retired the dell keyboard I had at work after 6 months).

No idea how it's lasted so long. Everything works fine, except every key has white dust-crust on the edges of it and it's not worth pulling apart to clean.

[00zeRO]

How did you have a OEM rubberdome last 10 years? Longest I've ever had one last is 3. Most of the time, I don't even have them last a year (recently retired the dell keyboard I had at work after 6 months).

No idea how it's lasted so long. Everything works fine, except every key has white dust-crust on the edges of it and it's not worth pulling apart to clean.

ewwwww...sounds like my son's xbox controllers...

[gh_pp]

I'm looking for something game-friendly, but I also like the compact look of the 60% boards. However, I feel sacrificing the arrow keys might just be a bit too much

I'd advice against radical change. A full size to 60%, not only you'd miss the arrow keys but some keys are totally located out of place.

Since you already mentioned you don't like non-standard layout for keycap modding, you'll have a limited selection of keycaps if you go with any special layout (leopold, pure, etc).

The QFR will be your best bet. Completely standard layout. Thinnest bezel of all TKL. $60 when on sale.
Can't go wrong as your first board or just an experiment.

You can try the common switches (blue,red,black,brown) in B&M (frys, bestbuy) before you buy

[mmik]

Could you tell me more about the filco I've been looking at? If I'd like that more, I'd like to wait and go straight for it later.

[rowdy]

Filco is a good brand, probably one of the better MX keyboards around.

Non-detachable cable though (the QFR cable is detachable, which can make it easier to transport the keyboard).

Filco legends are also preferred over QFR by many, although chances are you might replace keycaps on whatever you get anyway.

[mmik]

Well one of the reasons I was interested in the filco was because of the side printed caps, so I hopefully would keep most of them if I got it.

[FuriousGeorge]

Well one of the reasons I was interested in the filco was because of the side printed caps, so I hopefully would keep most of them if I got it.

The QFR is also available with side printed caps. Look for the Stealth version. I think the Filco is generally considered a little bit nicer, but the QFR is a great quality board for the price.

[gh_pp]

Well one of the reasons I was interested in the filco was because of the side printed caps, so I hopefully would keep most of them if I got it.

As someone mentioned, there is CM stealth

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16823129014

(MX green is no longer available on newegg, apparently I bought the last one

The side printed keycap that comes with filco or CM are rather thin.

You're better off getting a deal on a TKL keyboard and get a nice set of thick side printed keycaps (vortex/imsto)

Now that I have both the regular QFR and a stealth QFS, the stealth doesn't impress me much.
If you are like most people who joined this forum, you'll want to get a nicer set of keycaps eventually (and the odds are sooner than you think)

Where are you located btw?

[mmik]

I live in wisconsin. I thought buying caps just to get sideprint would be more expensive than just buying a board with them already installed, but I guess not?

Are the QFS and QFR basically the same board? I mean sure the cool, sleak factor wears off after a while, but if I had to choose from identical boards, other than standard or side print keys, I'd pick side print.

[Tony]

You don't have to spend $100 for something you might not like. Grab a Compaq MX 11800 for retro feel and cheap alternative to your Dell keyboard.

[mapple]

buy qfr or ducky shine 2/3 tkl (if you wanna get backlight) and ur done you can close topic etc. After you'll get enough money buy thick PBT keycaps for god mode and that's it your're done I would suggest model m but based on my experience they are not gaming friendly. Cheers

[PointyFox]

Yea I was really interested in the poker II, but the lack of arrow keys was a turnoff. I should look more into it I suppose. Does anyone here use one for games? And what color switches do you have?

I use a Poker II for games.  I'm using the left WIN key as a FN key so I can press it along with WASD for the arrows.  It's actually easier to use while gaming because you don't need to take your right hand off the mouse to push directional keys.  The drawback is that you lose the WIN key. 
I use vintage MX black switches for gaming.   I've tried buckling spring, red, black, vintage black, blue, and brown, and the blacks were my favorite.  Easier to game with than blue (reset point is above actuation point), less distracting than brown and blue (bumps and clicks), and more comfortable for me than reds (I bottom out too hard on reds).  Vintage black is better than new black because the vintage ones are smoother feeling and seem to be a little more non-linear.

QFRs are good, but I like having a smaller keyboard and don't really miss the other keys, except for the WIN key.

[gh_pp]

If you live in the US, there is NO reason not to get the QFR as your first board.
$70 daily price and $60 or lower when there is a deal.

top-print, side-print, doesn't matter. 90% of the stock keycaps ain't that good

(only a few exceptions: ducky pro thick pbt, realforce/hhkb)


So filco for $150 with stock keycaps or

qfr $60-80, and optionally when you feel like it

you can get very very nice ds abs keycap from originativeco or thick pbt dyesub from imsto for $100
and there are tons of nice keycaps ranging from $30-$100 from other vendor like vortex, banggood etc

[Melvang]

My wife is getting a Filco TKL for her first mech board.

[mmik]

Thanks for the info, gh_pp. My problem is I worry about wanting to upgrade to a new board right away and essentially wasting all of 80 dollars. I suppose I could get it it and give it to my brother or sell it if I decide to get another?

[gh_pp]

Well you’re assuming that QFR is a bad/cheap board.

It’s cheap in the sense that it’s ½ the price of a filco, but the build quality is not cheap.

•   Keycaps – other than the font, it’s no different/better/worst than any other boards except for the ducky pro/topre. And people in this forum want custom keycaps anyway

•   Single sided PCB – that might matter if you are hardcore about modding. But if you are, modding a filco is not better investment of funds and effort than building a phantom from scratch

•   Rubber coating – that’s the only real difference between QFR and filco. You can also paint it, effort-wise it’s a low hanging fruit

For me personally, the only reason I want to “upgrade” from QFR would be mx-clear switches (and they might have one within a year, as they already have green/blue/red/black/brown).

Of course the really hardcore stuffs like programmable mapping and switch swap without desoldering, there is no off-the-shelf TKL to fit the bill, you’ll have to build a custom keyboard.

[Hellmark]

I think that they might be getting ready to sell clears, because the switch test set that CM teased for preorder included a clear.

[terran5992]

Red switches for gaming , And if your budget is big enough , go for thorpe

[mmik]

Alright well it sounds like the qfr might be for me afterall. Is the stealth priced the same/hit with the same sales?

[rowdy]

Alright well it sounds like the qfr might be for me afterall. Is the stealth priced the same/hit with the same sales?

Stealth is just side-printed keycaps, isn't it?

The same reliable QFR inside the case.

[Hellmark]

Yeah, side printed keycaps is the difference now. It used to also have a more sedate case, but now all of them have the more plain case.

[mmik]

Welp

I went to best buy today to see if they had any gimmicky gamer keyboards so I could at least see what a switch key felt like. They had like 15 different keyboards on display and every single one was rubber dome.

[gh_pp]

you went to the wrong section.
the  keyboard aisle is for "business" users so you'll find all the rubberdome

you need to go to the gaming gears aisle with razer mouse, mousepad etc there you can find the mech keyboards. don't expect to find every switch type in bestbuy though. they usually have red/black/blue

frys is the best place to find all the switches if your state has one.

[mmik]

I think all of our frys closed down. Thanks though, I'll check again when I get a chance.

[mmik]

So just a thought... Is it possible to open some keyboards and put in alternative switches? Say I got a brown switch board, and wanted a blue switch numberpad for it? Could I do that? Or does the circuitry of the board need to be customized or something?

[fohat.digs]

As long as you are using the same type of switch by the same manufacturer it should work.

The Cherry switch tester had a least a dozen different switches in an old Filco body.

[monday]

How about a keycool 84? its kind of a funky layout but not to bad IMO....