Author Topic: Strong Man ALPS switches (Read 7836 times)

Chloe · « **on:** Thu, 08 January 2009, 07:20:47 »

I recently contacted Strong Man about ALPS switches and they told me they are still producing them and can sell them to me, minimum order one box of 4000, $0.13 USD per switch. They have two types: white stem/click, black stem/no click. As far as I know these are fake simplified, as seen in the SMK-85. They could not provide a product datasheet.

itlnstln · « **Reply #1 on:** Thu, 08 January 2009, 07:24:39 »

That's good to know for mods and custom 'boards. You could make +/- 40 keyboards with that many switches. It would be about $520 for the lot, which would be perfect for a few people to get together to purchase. Do you know if these come with the rubber dampers (probably not)?

Chloe · « **Reply #2 on:** Thu, 08 January 2009, 07:29:18 »

I have not seen copies with rubber dampers. As far as I know, these are unique to Apple Extended II and SGI AT-101. Strong Man only gave me two switch options, click or no click.

sandy55 · « **Reply #3 on:** Thu, 08 January 2009, 08:11:07 »

Better to ask them send you few samples of each click and non-click module.
IF they are fakes, I don't think it's worth to pay $520 for 4000pcs of fake alps. what would you do with 4000pcs of switches?
But getting one or two samples of black non-click is worth to try. We can confirm with the sample if black/tactile alps's used in AT101/W ARE still available or not.

lowpoly · « **Reply #4 on:** Thu, 08 January 2009, 08:14:56 »

Quote from: Chloe;17459

$0.13 USD per switch

That's not much compared to Cherry switches. OK, the Cherry prices were for single switches.

Chloe · « **Reply #5 on:** Thu, 08 January 2009, 08:19:56 »

I have asked for samples. 4000pcs seems high for minimum quantity.

lowpoly · « **Reply #6 on:** Thu, 08 January 2009, 08:26:40 »

They usually don't sell to consumers. It might just be the minimum box size they have.

Two days ago I talked to a pointing device manufacturer. If the device was new and not from their current catalog they had a minimum order of 500K pieces... A month.

itlnstln · « **Reply #7 on:** Thu, 08 January 2009, 08:28:17 »

Quote from: Chloe;17468

I have asked for samples. 4000pcs seems high for minimum quantity.

I would imagine, though, the main customers for them are OEMs. In that case, 4000 switches is a pretty small min. order qty. seeing that it would only provide enough switches for around 40 keyboards (depending on layout).

wellington1869 · « **Reply #8 on:** Thu, 08 January 2009, 14:10:55 »

so how soon before someone here puts aekii dampers into the filco white XMs?

also, then are we saying the filco XM's are the same as the simplified fake whites in the smk85 and the matias tp2? All are white strongman? I'd buy the filco if I knew it was same as the tp2 strongmans!

alpslover · « **Reply #9 on:** Thu, 08 January 2009, 14:18:51 »

Quote from: Chloe;17461

I have not seen copies with rubber dampers. As far as I know, these are unique to Apple Extended II and SGI AT-101.

my alps glidepoint keyboard has rubber damped switches.

Chloe · « **Reply #10 on:** Thu, 08 January 2009, 14:33:03 »

Thanks alpslover. I wonder if the GlidePoint keypad also have rubber dampers. I would like one of these but I don't really like the feel of the dampers.

lam47 · « **Reply #11 on:** Thu, 08 January 2009, 15:39:18 »

Quote from: Chloe;17511

Thanks alpslover. I wonder if the GlidePoint keypad also have rubber dampers. I would like one of these but I don't really like the feel of the dampers.

Yes you do, course you do

andb · « **Reply #12 on:** Thu, 08 January 2009, 16:23:06 »

Quote from: wellington1869;17506

so how soon before someone here puts aekii dampers into the filco white XMs?

also, then are we saying the filco XM's are the same as the simplified fake whites in the smk85 and the matias tp2? All are white strongman? I'd buy the filco if I knew it was same as the tp2 strongmans!

If I've understood, the new "fake" Alps are not compatible with the older "real" ones, correct? If this is so, then you'd never be able to get the tampered stems from the creams onto a Filco white board. Can someone confirm or refute this?

wellington1869 · « **Reply #13 on:** Thu, 08 January 2009, 16:54:15 »

Quote from: andb;17532

If I've understood, the new "fake" Alps are not compatible with the older "real" ones, correct? If this is so, then you'd never be able to get the tampered stems from the creams onto a Filco white board. Can someone confirm or refute this?

Well, this may be true. (I may be in denial about it). Because I did try at one point to stick aekII slider-dampers into an smk85 with gray strongmans, and it did not fit. (the top part of the switch wouldnt click shut when I reassembled it). (Maybe I should have pressed harder? I dont know).
However, I'm hoping against hope that white strongmans will be different (the above was attempted with gray strongmans).

sandy55 · « **Reply #14 on:** Thu, 08 January 2009, 19:10:57 »

I think white stem/dumper or cream stem/damper can be used any of fake/copy alps. I mean "key stem" only.
Upper housings of most of fake/copy alps are different from genuine complicated alps.
XM has a small separated room for a small click spring ( I don't have Filco XM. I noticed it thru pics posted to the forum ) . In addition, including XM , 3 in 4 fake/copies have separators in upper housing to keep switching assy align vertically and the separators interfare to accept complicated genuine switching assy soldered on PCB. those who have experienced removing/re-assembling upper housing of fake/copy alps might notice that It's a bit difficult to set upper housing properly. you can do it with genuine alps very easily.
You can examine differences between real and fakes/copies here .
Autotranslation won't help you to understand the contents but you can compare pictures.

xsphat · « **Reply #15 on:** Thu, 08 January 2009, 20:51:12 »

I've had a keyboard with those bumpers and it felt like crap — same bottom as a membrane. Why do all you guys want them so bad? have you actually tried them?

wellington1869 · « **Reply #16 on:** Thu, 08 January 2009, 21:16:31 »

Quote from: xsphat;17547

I've had a keyboard with those bumpers and it felt like crap — same bottom as a membrane. Why do all you guys want them so bad? have you actually tried them?

lol. i like them cuz they make the switch quieter (and give them a softer landing on the downstroke). I dont think they're like membranes, there's no 'mush' IMO. The topres are just as soft on the landing. (And quiet).
With these you still get the click and bump from the leaf.

xsphat · « **Reply #17 on:** Thu, 08 January 2009, 21:56:50 »

yeah, the Topre 86 is one of my quietest keyboards, and the sound it has is all it's own which is a huge draw for me.

sandy55 · « **Reply #18 on:** Thu, 08 January 2009, 22:28:12 »

"There is no accounting for taste".

Some may like it, the others may not. Those who have not yet tried just hanker for gimmick. curiosity is a human nature.

as for me, I swapped mine to normal key stems without rubber dampers.

xsphat · « **Reply #19 on:** Thu, 08 January 2009, 22:38:03 »

The white Alps is my second favorite switch. The Topre is my first choice by a mile. I have been on this Topre 86 pretty much since I bought it. Coming from me, that says a lot.

andb · « **Reply #20 on:** Fri, 09 January 2009, 05:14:50 »

Quote from: sandy55;17559

Some may like it, the others may not. Those who have not yet tried just hanker for gimmick. curiosity is a human nature.

as for me, I swapped mine to normal key stems without rubber dampers.

Basically, I also want to try the damped switch out of curiosity. Given that one doesn't bottom out when typing "properly", wouldn't the effect of the damper be minimal, mostly quieting the return? And wouldn't it serve to soften those rare strokes when you overpress and bottom out? I'd expect the actual damping to be nearly never felt.

wellington1869 · « **Reply #21 on:** Fri, 09 January 2009, 05:24:18 »

Quote from: andb;17579

Basically, I also want to try the damped switch out of curiosity. Given that one doesn't bottom out when typing "properly", wouldn't the effect of the damper be minimal, mostly quieting the return? And wouldn't it serve to soften those rare strokes when you overpress and bottom out? I'd expect the actual damping to be nearly never felt.

depends on your typing style i guess. I always bottom out a little no matter what I use. the dampers quiet both the return and the bottoming. You're left with whatever click the leaf makes. Its kind of nice really.

Chloe · « **Reply #22 on:** Fri, 09 January 2009, 05:26:24 »

It softens the return of the stem too, I can feel the difference as well as hear it. I prefer the feel and sound of ALPS without these dampers.

By the way, I don't think bottoming out can be considered improper typing. So many keyboards actually require this to register a keystroke.

itlnstln · « **Reply #23 on:** Fri, 09 January 2009, 06:56:48 »

I wanted to try out the dampers on my Northgate since the all-metal constuction makes an all out racket when typing. I always tend to bottom out, but even if I didn't the clack from the regular stems still registers on the upstroke which is just as noisy. I don't have as much issue with the Dell as the case is all plastic, so it does not suffer from resonance issues that the Northgate has.

zwmalone · « **Reply #24 on:** Sat, 10 January 2009, 20:37:53 »

Quote from: sandy55;17544

Autotranslation won't help you to understand the contents but you can compare pictures.

Actually you can understand most of it with this translation.

sandy55 · « **Reply #25 on:** Sat, 10 January 2009, 22:38:42 »

Quote from: zwmalone;17793

Actually you can understand most of it with this translation.

Can you? I could not understand at all.

I even can't understand some of my past comments written in English posted here,there and everywhere.

zwmalone · « **Reply #26 on:** Sat, 10 January 2009, 22:44:12 »

It's pretty readable. Not very fluid and some words are out of order and some little things don't make sense but all-in-all it's very understandable once you figure out what the out of order stuff means

On a side note is the plastic friction I noticed on my Chicony common with all ALPS boards?

sandy55 · « **Reply #27 on:** Sun, 11 January 2009, 00:52:30 »

Quote from: zwmalone;17796

It's pretty readable. Not very fluid and some words are out of order and some little things don't make sense but all-in-all it's very understandable once you figure out what the out of order stuff means

Hmm... it seems that I don't need to rewrite my web pages in English.

Quote

On a side note is the plastic friction I noticed on my Chicony common with all ALPS boards?

Could I have detailed explanation about "plastic friction"?
If "your Chicony" is the one listed under your signature, I do not know about kb7001. the model number is new to me.

zwmalone · « **Reply #28 on:** Sun, 11 January 2009, 01:06:16 »

What I mean is that if you don't hit the keys in the exact center of the bigger keys they feel like they kind of "rub" all the way down. They feel much harder to press and the click is almost nonexistent... But it's only if the key isn't pressed from the center.

skriefal · « **Reply #29 on:** Sun, 11 January 2009, 01:14:07 »

Quote from: sandy55;17797

Hmm... it seems that I don't need to rewrite my web pages in English.

I'm not so certain. Most of the automated translations I've seen have been awful. That includes Google's translator, Babelfish, etc. I have to really "twist" my brain to have any hope of understanding the translated text. It's only barely better than nothing at all, and sometimes it's not even that.

Chloe · « **Reply #30 on:** Sun, 11 January 2009, 06:59:25 »

Quote from: zwmalone;17796

On a side note is the plastic friction I noticed on my Chicony common with all ALPS boards?

The white ALPS I have are very smooth. I can produce some friction sound with cream ALPS but only when pressing the corner of a key slowly.

Is there alot of dust inbetween the switches? You can try cleaning the switches with compressed air then apply RO-59 to the stems.

itlnstln · « **Reply #31 on:** Sun, 11 January 2009, 08:37:36 »

The only time I have felt any friction in Alps switches is when I had what I believe to be dirty ones in a Dell I bought. The NIB ones I bought did not have this friction.

sandy55 · « **Reply #32 on:** Sun, 11 January 2009, 09:10:44 »

Quote from: zwmalone;17799

What I mean is that if you don't hit the keys in the exact center of the bigger keys they feel like they kind of "rub" all the way down. They feel much harder to press and the click is almost nonexistent... But it's only if the key isn't pressed from the center.

I think plastic friction you described is commonly observed in most of all key switches which use a key stem ( plunger). In another word, friction is unavoidable factor as far as a switch uses a plunger. but it could be said that square stem might be tend to give us more frictions comparing to round stem does. I do feel such friction on Cherry mx, and on round plunger of Topre ( Jp106 layout uses up-side-down L shaped Enter key like EUR layout ). Keyboard manufacturers tries to reduce such frictions using stabilizing rod, designing more effective stabilizing mechanism than th others, making less-friction key caps and so on. For example M uses two plungers( switch and supporting plunger ) for bigger keys, Cherry added supporting two plungers for G80 lines.
As for alps boards, we can see two additional small plungers for a space bar on some boards, but there are boards with one additional plunger or without additional plunger. For larger L-shaped enter, some boards use two stabilizing bar along with additional plunger. It's interesting to examine stabilizing system of keyboards, btw.
In order to reduce frictions, I use liquid called "smoth aide" for all keys to make movement of stem much smother and I also use silicon based grease for stabilizing rods.
Cherry style of stabilizing ( Cherry means Cherry GmBH not keyboards which use MX ) is very effective but at the same time they added unnecessary bad feel of bouncing to space bar. It can be fixed somehow but I think it's a good sample of bad engineering design like key caps of Apple GS keyboard.

Quote from: skriefal;17800

Most of the automated translations I've seen have been awful. That includes Google's translator, Babelfish, etc. I have to really "twist" my brain to have any hope of understanding the translated text.

To be honest, those transactions are awful to me too.

Quote from: skriefal;17800

It's only barely better than nothing at all, and sometimes it's not even that.

Good point. That's way I wrote "Trivia; Model M and F" in English. Problem is..........mine is nearly same with automated translation.

sandy55 · « **Reply #33 on:** Sun, 11 January 2009, 09:26:39 »

Quote from: Chloe;17806

Is there alot of dust inbetween the switches? You can try cleaning the switches with compressed air then apply RO-59 to the stems.

That's what I wrote "smooth aid". It's a magic liquid.
I wash key stems and upper housings all together, then apply RO-59 to both stem and inner wall of upper housing. It drastically reduce frictions.

lal · « **Reply #34 on:** Sun, 11 January 2009, 10:39:45 »

Quote from: sandy55;17810

Good point. That's way I wrote "Trivia; Model M and F" in English. Problem is..........mine is nearly same with automated translation.

LOL! Sorry Sandy, this made me laugh out very loud

But your English is really not *that* bad. I'm not very good at English too, but I can understand your writing perfectly, which is not the case for most automatic translations.

sandy55 · « **Reply #35 on:** Sun, 11 January 2009, 10:52:21 »

Hi lal.

Here, I made mistake again. what's "way"

I wanted to write " that's the reason WHY..."
That's the way, I don't like it ....but I can't help writing in bad English.

skriefal · « **Reply #36 on:** Sun, 11 January 2009, 11:25:10 »

Quote from: sandy55;17815

Hi lal.

Here, I made mistake again. what's "way"
I wanted to write " that's the reason WHY..."
That's the way, I don't like it ....but I can't help writing in bad English.

Simple mistakes like that are very common, even amongst native English speakers. In fact it sometimes seems that these mistakes are more common with native English speakers than with those for whom English is a second language -- possibly because the native speakers are less likely to proofread their typed text for spelling errors or poor grammar. [I'm "different" in that regard. I proofread everything.

]

So don't worry about it. I suspect that your self-translated English pages will generally be easier to understand than any automated translation of the original. Even if they do contain a few typos.

zwmalone · « **Reply #37 on:** Sun, 11 January 2009, 11:42:47 »

Quote from: sandy55.fc2web.com translated via Google

"Real" is what?
The simplest definition is due to the structure of the junction.
That is "real" part of the contacts are under way in all cases the images. Colors are black, gray, milky white and change with the times, its basic structure is the same.

Quote from: Sandy55.fc2web.com translated via Google

Something called a simple and while the simplified structure of the contact, metal parts and components only two pieces, or + is significantly reduced production costs and production time and simple separator.

Quote from: sandy55.fc2web.com translated via google

This type can be found in 1995 after the keyboard. ALPS ALPS Japanese origin from the top you have a logo ALPS case would have been a tacit acceptance of its presence.
2000 ALPS The 2000 form this year after the dissolution of the joint venture partners have been producing "ALPS-switch" with the switch and many called on the keyboard.

MOST of it translates to something readable. Like all translations you get some oddball stuff but for the most part it's readable.

On a side note, that RO-59/smoothade stuff seems really hard to come by.

sandy55 · « **Reply #38 on:** Sun, 11 January 2009, 17:59:45 »

Quote from: zwmalone;17818

On a side note, that RO-59/smoothade stuff seems really hard to come by.

http://www.ro59inc.com/

sandy55 · « **Reply #39 on:** Mon, 12 January 2009, 00:40:38 »

Hi, zwmalone.
To be honest, I can't understand what "sandy" wanted to say in the 3rd quotation.
Auto translation is better than that comment. It's hard to believe that I wrote such a horrible comments.
Could you tell me where I posted that comment? I have to delete it if I can.

zwmalone · « **Reply #40 on:** Mon, 12 January 2009, 00:55:15 »

The last one is autotranslation too, I just got lazy and left off the last part. fixed.

If I remember correctly is had to do with Bigfoot ALPS vs Simplified. It's not one of the best translated excerpts but you get the gist of what it's supposed to be about.

Sorry for the confusion.

sandy55 · « **Reply #41 on:** Mon, 12 January 2009, 01:11:36 »

I shall be released.

wellington1869 · « **Reply #42 on:** Mon, 12 January 2009, 02:05:19 »

Quote from: sandy55;17841

I shall be released.

from prison?

sandy55 · « **Reply #43 on:** Mon, 12 January 2009, 05:57:27 »

from psychological stress as being a suspect who wrote such an awful comment publicly.

wellington1869 · « **Reply #44 on:** Mon, 12 January 2009, 08:51:48 »

Quote from: sandy55;17852

from psychological stress as being a suspect who wrote such an awful comment publicly.

aw, thats nothing. you should see some of the crap xsphat writes on these boards, lol

xsphat · « **Reply #45 on:** Mon, 12 January 2009, 09:44:04 »

Quote from: wellington1869;17857

aw, thats nothing. you should see some of the crap xsphat writes on these boards, lol

Thought I wasn't looking, huh boy?

wellington1869 · « **Reply #46 on:** Mon, 12 January 2009, 09:57:26 »

took a chance

bigpook · « **Reply #47 on:** Mon, 12 January 2009, 10:58:01 »

xsphat knows all and sees all. Nothing can escape his withering gaze. : )

Chloe · « **Reply #48 on:** Tue, 13 January 2009, 11:27:47 »

Quote from: sandy55;17544

I think white stem/dumper or cream stem/damper can be used any of fake/copy alps. I mean "key stem" only.

I have just tried this, using a stem with dampers from an Apple Extended II in the simplified clicky ALPS from a KPT-84. The stem with dampers is a little taller so the stem does not go all the way down when depressed. The keycap on the stem with dampers is higher than the rest of the keys, so all the stems would need to be changed to maintain a consistent keycap height. It seems like there is a little less key travel with the dampers. Also, the dampening effect isn't as apparent as it was when I tried these stems in clicky ALPS. It seems to only affect the feel of the switch.

wellington1869 · « **Reply #49 on:** Tue, 13 January 2009, 13:42:33 »

Quote from: Chloe;18005

I have just tried this, using a stem with dampers from an Apple Extended II in the simplified clicky ALPS from a KPT-84. The stem with dampers is a little taller so the stem does not go all the way down when depressed. The keycap on the stem with dampers is higher than the rest of the keys, so all the stems would need to be changed to maintain a consistent keycap height. It seems like there is a little less key travel with the dampers. Also, the dampening effect isn't as apparent as it was when I tried these stems in clicky ALPS. It seems to only affect the feel of the switch.

interesting. so it did fit though. When I tried it briefly in the smk85 (strongmans), the top of the case wouldnt click shut, though maybe I should have pushed it harder.

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Author Topic: Strong Man ALPS switches (Read 7836 times)