Author Topic: Programmable keyboard failed to install drivers?  (Read 3126 times)

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Offline BucklingSpring

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Programmable keyboard failed to install drivers?
« on: Fri, 29 November 2013, 18:48:17 »
Hi guys,

I brought my new Deck Francium at the office to show it off. We are in a tight security environment. Most of us don't have admin rights on their workstation.

It worked flawlessly on my computer but didn't want to on few others. Windows failed to install the drivers... Whatever they are.
It is recognized as a Deck Francium but no drivers available. In that state, none of the keys are responding.

I thought of it afterwards but I wonder if toggling the NKRO feature ON/OFF would resolve.

Anyone else with programmable keyboards came across this issue?

Thanks

In memory of smallfry 1996-2013
Boards I own, click ->
More
Ducky x2 (9008G2 Pro PBT/MX Green and Mini MX Red), Matias x2 (QP and Mini QP Dampened ALPS), Topre RealForce x4 (87U 55g/Digilog case, 103U-UW & 104UG High-Profile x2), Filco Majestouch x2 (TKL MX Blue & V2 AI 104 MX Blue), IBM-M x2 (BS & RD), Unicomp-M x5 (BS black on black x2, BS Ivory x2, QT Ultra-Classic), Deck x4 (Legend MX Black & MX Clear, Hassium & Francium w/ MX Brown), DAS III (MX Blue), KBT Pure Pro 60% (MX Red), NMB-RT8256CW+ x2 (black space invader), XArmor U9BL-S (MX Brown) given for free to someone I hate, CM X2 (Trigger/MX Green + Storm TKL/NovaTouch), TVS GOLD (MX Blue) and a many many more (NMB, DELL, MS, ATT, KeyTronic, Etc...)

Offline rowdy

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Re: Programmable keyboard failed to install drivers?
« Reply #1 on: Fri, 29 November 2013, 18:52:52 »
Hi guys,

I brought my new Deck Francium at the office to show it off. We are in a tight security environment. Most of us don't have admin rights on their workstation.

It worked flawlessly on my computer but didn't want to on few others. Windows failed to install the drivers... Whatever they are.
It is recognized as a Deck Francium but no drivers available. In that state, none of the keys are responding.

I thought of it afterwards but I wonder if toggling the NKRO feature ON/OFF would resolve.

Anyone else with programmable keyboards came across this issue?

Thanks



I dunno about programmability, but when I plug a new keyboard into my Windows 7 workstation at work Windows goes through the process of installing drivers and then announces that the hardware is ready for use.

For the KeyCool 87, it actually insisted on a reboot.

I do have admin rights though.
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

Ị̸͚̯̲́ͤ̃͑̇̑ͯ̊̂͟ͅs̞͚̩͉̝̪̲͗͊ͪ̽̚̚ ̭̦͖͕̑́͌ͬͩ͟t̷̻͔̙̑͟h̹̠̼͋ͤ͋i̤̜̣̦̱̫͈͔̞ͭ͑ͥ̌̔s̬͔͎̍̈ͥͫ̐̾ͣ̔̇͘ͅ ̩̘̼͆̐̕e̞̰͓̲̺̎͐̏ͬ̓̅̾͠͝ͅv̶̰͕̱̞̥̍ͣ̄̕e͕͙͖̬̜͓͎̤̊ͭ͐͝ṇ̰͎̱̤̟̭ͫ͌̌͢͠ͅ ̳̥̦ͮ̐ͤ̎̊ͣ͡͡n̤̜̙̺̪̒͜e̶̻̦̿ͮ̂̀c̝̘̝͖̠̖͐ͨͪ̈̐͌ͩ̀e̷̥͇̋ͦs̢̡̤ͤͤͯ͜s͈̠̉̑͘a̱͕̗͖̳̥̺ͬͦͧ͆̌̑͡r̶̟̖̈͘ỷ̮̦̩͙͔ͫ̾ͬ̔ͬͮ̌?̵̘͇͔͙ͥͪ͞ͅ

Offline BucklingSpring

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Re: Programmable keyboard failed to install drivers?
« Reply #2 on: Fri, 29 November 2013, 18:59:33 »
For the KeyCool 87, it actually insisted on a reboot.

I do have admin rights though.

When it didn't work, I didn't get to the point of HW ready to use. For the KeyCool, did the OS asked for a reboot or you just rebooted because it was not working prior to it?
In memory of smallfry 1996-2013
Boards I own, click ->
More
Ducky x2 (9008G2 Pro PBT/MX Green and Mini MX Red), Matias x2 (QP and Mini QP Dampened ALPS), Topre RealForce x4 (87U 55g/Digilog case, 103U-UW & 104UG High-Profile x2), Filco Majestouch x2 (TKL MX Blue & V2 AI 104 MX Blue), IBM-M x2 (BS & RD), Unicomp-M x5 (BS black on black x2, BS Ivory x2, QT Ultra-Classic), Deck x4 (Legend MX Black & MX Clear, Hassium & Francium w/ MX Brown), DAS III (MX Blue), KBT Pure Pro 60% (MX Red), NMB-RT8256CW+ x2 (black space invader), XArmor U9BL-S (MX Brown) given for free to someone I hate, CM X2 (Trigger/MX Green + Storm TKL/NovaTouch), TVS GOLD (MX Blue) and a many many more (NMB, DELL, MS, ATT, KeyTronic, Etc...)

Offline rowdy

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Re: Programmable keyboard failed to install drivers?
« Reply #3 on: Fri, 29 November 2013, 19:04:39 »
For the KeyCool 87, it actually insisted on a reboot.

I do have admin rights though.

When it didn't work, I didn't get to the point of HW ready to use. For the KeyCool, did the OS asked for a reboot or you just rebooted because it was not working prior to it?


Windows said that I had to reboot before I could use the new hardware.  Given that I just click the "restart now" button to reboot, I don't think I actually tried to see if it worked or not.

Any other keyboard "loads drivers" and the keyboard works, no reboot required.
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

Ị̸͚̯̲́ͤ̃͑̇̑ͯ̊̂͟ͅs̞͚̩͉̝̪̲͗͊ͪ̽̚̚ ̭̦͖͕̑́͌ͬͩ͟t̷̻͔̙̑͟h̹̠̼͋ͤ͋i̤̜̣̦̱̫͈͔̞ͭ͑ͥ̌̔s̬͔͎̍̈ͥͫ̐̾ͣ̔̇͘ͅ ̩̘̼͆̐̕e̞̰͓̲̺̎͐̏ͬ̓̅̾͠͝ͅv̶̰͕̱̞̥̍ͣ̄̕e͕͙͖̬̜͓͎̤̊ͭ͐͝ṇ̰͎̱̤̟̭ͫ͌̌͢͠ͅ ̳̥̦ͮ̐ͤ̎̊ͣ͡͡n̤̜̙̺̪̒͜e̶̻̦̿ͮ̂̀c̝̘̝͖̠̖͐ͨͪ̈̐͌ͩ̀e̷̥͇̋ͦs̢̡̤ͤͤͯ͜s͈̠̉̑͘a̱͕̗͖̳̥̺ͬͦͧ͆̌̑͡r̶̟̖̈͘ỷ̮̦̩͙͔ͫ̾ͬ̔ͬͮ̌?̵̘͇͔͙ͥͪ͞ͅ

Offline terran5992

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Re: Programmable keyboard failed to install drivers?
« Reply #4 on: Fri, 29 November 2013, 19:04:56 »
Never had this problem.

But then again , i always have admin privileges

Listokei Custom  |  HHKB Pro 2  |  Topre Realforce 103UBH  |  Armageddon MKA-3


Offline BucklingSpring

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Re: Programmable keyboard failed to install drivers?
« Reply #5 on: Fri, 29 November 2013, 19:16:23 »
I wonder if the Keyboard controller is the same as the Ducky Shine.

If I'm not mistaken, the DEL illumination patterns are the same.

Any  Shine owners with no admin privileges around?
In memory of smallfry 1996-2013
Boards I own, click ->
More
Ducky x2 (9008G2 Pro PBT/MX Green and Mini MX Red), Matias x2 (QP and Mini QP Dampened ALPS), Topre RealForce x4 (87U 55g/Digilog case, 103U-UW & 104UG High-Profile x2), Filco Majestouch x2 (TKL MX Blue & V2 AI 104 MX Blue), IBM-M x2 (BS & RD), Unicomp-M x5 (BS black on black x2, BS Ivory x2, QT Ultra-Classic), Deck x4 (Legend MX Black & MX Clear, Hassium & Francium w/ MX Brown), DAS III (MX Blue), KBT Pure Pro 60% (MX Red), NMB-RT8256CW+ x2 (black space invader), XArmor U9BL-S (MX Brown) given for free to someone I hate, CM X2 (Trigger/MX Green + Storm TKL/NovaTouch), TVS GOLD (MX Blue) and a many many more (NMB, DELL, MS, ATT, KeyTronic, Etc...)

Offline tuxsavvy

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Re: Programmable keyboard failed to install drivers?
« Reply #6 on: Fri, 29 November 2013, 19:27:07 »
I wonder could it be that when windows tries to find the drivers online and/or tries to download them is where it failed?

I somehow do not believe this would be machine specific because in work environments computers are usually cloned meaning that they would have the exact setup in both hardware (minus peripherals generally I suppose) as well as software.
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Offline BucklingSpring

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Re: Programmable keyboard failed to install drivers?
« Reply #7 on: Fri, 29 November 2013, 19:47:37 »
I wonder could it be that when windows tries to find the drivers online and/or tries to download them is where it failed?

I somehow do not believe this would be machine specific because in work environments computers are usually cloned meaning that they would have the exact setup in both hardware (minus peripherals generally I suppose) as well as software.

Very true. Except in my dept we have special users with special needs and various hardware configurations.

This keyboard is clearly seen as a non standard/generic input device. We have end-point DLP software that prevent from connecting unauthorized foreign devices. I never seen it block an input device. But will not allow usb keys, smart phone or anything that can store/leak data.

Maybe the DLP white list doesn't cover for this "type" of keyboard.



In memory of smallfry 1996-2013
Boards I own, click ->
More
Ducky x2 (9008G2 Pro PBT/MX Green and Mini MX Red), Matias x2 (QP and Mini QP Dampened ALPS), Topre RealForce x4 (87U 55g/Digilog case, 103U-UW & 104UG High-Profile x2), Filco Majestouch x2 (TKL MX Blue & V2 AI 104 MX Blue), IBM-M x2 (BS & RD), Unicomp-M x5 (BS black on black x2, BS Ivory x2, QT Ultra-Classic), Deck x4 (Legend MX Black & MX Clear, Hassium & Francium w/ MX Brown), DAS III (MX Blue), KBT Pure Pro 60% (MX Red), NMB-RT8256CW+ x2 (black space invader), XArmor U9BL-S (MX Brown) given for free to someone I hate, CM X2 (Trigger/MX Green + Storm TKL/NovaTouch), TVS GOLD (MX Blue) and a many many more (NMB, DELL, MS, ATT, KeyTronic, Etc...)

Offline Grendel

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Re: Programmable keyboard failed to install drivers?
« Reply #8 on: Fri, 29 November 2013, 20:03:33 »
The IT crowd at your place is anal. Yes, windows needs to "install" a driver for any new USB device, even keyboards. Your account does not have the privileges enabled to do that.
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Offline tuxsavvy

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Re: Programmable keyboard failed to install drivers?
« Reply #9 on: Sat, 30 November 2013, 05:53:24 »
I wonder could it be that when windows tries to find the drivers online and/or tries to download them is where it failed?

I somehow do not believe this would be machine specific because in work environments computers are usually cloned meaning that they would have the exact setup in both hardware (minus peripherals generally I suppose) as well as software.

Very true. Except in my dept we have special users with special needs and various hardware configurations.

This keyboard is clearly seen as a non standard/generic input device. We have end-point DLP software that prevent from connecting unauthorized foreign devices. I never seen it block an input device. But will not allow usb keys, smart phone or anything that can store/leak data.

Maybe the DLP white list doesn't cover for this "type" of keyboard.

That is very weird, so on your workstation you can plug in that keyboard and not others?

I have never been in contact with DLP sort of software at all but that is just insane. If your workstation keyboard (the one provided by your firm) is USB, I guess in theory you could grab the USB ID somehow (vid:pid) or at least try to search the keyboard online with some infomation on hand about the make and model of the keyboard to see if you can grab the USB ID.

Once you have that and you can re-program the controller, you can probably tell the keyboard that it is this (firm provided keyboard's) USB ID and not something else. Though I am not sure what other limitations will using a spoofed USB ID allows in terms of things such as certain keys may not work due to the layout/key bindings and/or will it actually also work with other workstations let alone will my suggested solution work at all or not.

If it does not work, then I guess the firm you are working for is pretty paranoid and the IT department are definitely pretty adept people that knows how to audit things and lock them down tightly.
HHKB Pro JP Type-S | Northgate Omnikey 101 | APC/"Clicker" F-21 (GOG3YL) | Cherry G80-5000 HAMDE

僕の日本語が下手です。我的中文也一樣爛。

Offline BucklingSpring

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Re: Programmable keyboard failed to install drivers?
« Reply #10 on: Sat, 30 November 2013, 10:30:36 »
If it does not work, then I guess the firm you are working for is pretty paranoid and the IT department are definitely pretty adept people that knows how to audit things and lock them down tightly.

I don't want to get too much in detail about the business. Over securing is one of our problem. We used to have a decentralized IT management, free for all paranoid local IT managers to do their own anal things. The shop is now trying to have balanced standard baseline that are less frustrating for the users while covering our ASSets.

Still, it is the first time I see a keyboard getting locked. I'll be talking with Deck directly and/or indirectly to investigate the issue. The keyboard is pretty much self sufficient for the configuration/programming. For the rest, as long as it sends the right keys to the OS, I don't give a crap if it lacks "extended" functionality as long as it works as a generic keyboard. To your point, maybe Deck could allow us to make it look like a Generic USB keyboard. That said, this is all speculation until I try Monday to disable the USB NKRO feature to see if it works.

This gives me another workaround idea though. The Deck Legend worked well with a USB-PS2 adaptor. Maybe I can get the Francium connected to the PS2 port.
In memory of smallfry 1996-2013
Boards I own, click ->
More
Ducky x2 (9008G2 Pro PBT/MX Green and Mini MX Red), Matias x2 (QP and Mini QP Dampened ALPS), Topre RealForce x4 (87U 55g/Digilog case, 103U-UW & 104UG High-Profile x2), Filco Majestouch x2 (TKL MX Blue & V2 AI 104 MX Blue), IBM-M x2 (BS & RD), Unicomp-M x5 (BS black on black x2, BS Ivory x2, QT Ultra-Classic), Deck x4 (Legend MX Black & MX Clear, Hassium & Francium w/ MX Brown), DAS III (MX Blue), KBT Pure Pro 60% (MX Red), NMB-RT8256CW+ x2 (black space invader), XArmor U9BL-S (MX Brown) given for free to someone I hate, CM X2 (Trigger/MX Green + Storm TKL/NovaTouch), TVS GOLD (MX Blue) and a many many more (NMB, DELL, MS, ATT, KeyTronic, Etc...)

Offline tuxsavvy

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Re: Programmable keyboard failed to install drivers?
« Reply #11 on: Sat, 30 November 2013, 22:25:29 »
If it does not work, then I guess the firm you are working for is pretty paranoid and the IT department are definitely pretty adept people that knows how to audit things and lock them down tightly.

I don't want to get too much in detail about the business. Over securing is one of our problem. We used to have a decentralized IT management, free for all paranoid local IT managers to do their own anal things. The shop is now trying to have balanced standard baseline that are less frustrating for the users while covering our ASSets.

Still, it is the first time I see a keyboard getting locked. I'll be talking with Deck directly and/or indirectly to investigate the issue. The keyboard is pretty much self sufficient for the configuration/programming. For the rest, as long as it sends the right keys to the OS, I don't give a crap if it lacks "extended" functionality as long as it works as a generic keyboard. To your point, maybe Deck could allow us to make it look like a Generic USB keyboard. That said, this is all speculation until I try Monday to disable the USB NKRO feature to see if it works.

This gives me another workaround idea though. The Deck Legend worked well with a USB-PS2 adaptor. Maybe I can get the Francium connected to the PS2 port.
I know security is paramount in places where there are secrets that are not meant to be shared but for them to even stop certain USB stuff from coming in is going a little over the top imo. Sure on the outside it seems to block USB flash drives for instance thereby preventing data leaks, but nobody said you can't swap out USB keyboard with a keylogger embedded inside that would trap all key strokes and pretend that it is a regular USB keyboard on the outside.

I guess they can push things even further (security-wise) by introducing thin terminals and instead regulate the "mainframe" instead. Though hopefully that won't happen. Novell delivered programs for instance.  :)) It is somewhat a good thing that there are business out there that are willing to listen to their employees when security is paramount. Leaving things overboard in terms of security is sort of what most IT security professionals would be willing to say, "security through obscurity". Not that I have any grudges against companies who treats security very highly as I have already worked for a few however, going through locking via USB for instance to certain keyboards is just weird.

The best way to test if the keyboard sends out the right keys is usually by testing it out on one computer. The last time I saw photos of Deck keyboards, it looks just like a mere standard keyboard on the outside with fancy printing on top and mechanical (Cherry MX) switches. In other words most of those keys should work as it is, anything that involves media keys may not work instantly if your firm provided you with normal keys without media keys for instance.

Yeah the only other way that I could see out of that option is definitely to make it seem like it is a firm or otherwise a regular keyboard. It is basically just rewriting the controller to spoof pretending it is just another "sheep" when it is actually a "wolf". This would most likely work if your firm only issues USB keyboards. If they blocked off USB then that is useless hence it would instantly refers to your latter point on using USB -> PS/2 adapters. Then again, there could be chances that your firm may also have blocked off access via PS/2 so you might want to keep that in mind.
HHKB Pro JP Type-S | Northgate Omnikey 101 | APC/"Clicker" F-21 (GOG3YL) | Cherry G80-5000 HAMDE

僕の日本語が下手です。我的中文也一樣爛。

Offline BucklingSpring

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Re: Programmable keyboard failed to install drivers?
« Reply #12 on: Sun, 01 December 2013, 00:07:48 »
The Deck like few other new keyboards got firmware that can be updated via the USB connection. To do so, they need memory. I don't know much but if this keyboard reports storage space then that might be why it is denied. With the current little information available, we are still speculating a lot... So I'll give this a rest until I gather new relevant details.

Stay tuned.
In memory of smallfry 1996-2013
Boards I own, click ->
More
Ducky x2 (9008G2 Pro PBT/MX Green and Mini MX Red), Matias x2 (QP and Mini QP Dampened ALPS), Topre RealForce x4 (87U 55g/Digilog case, 103U-UW & 104UG High-Profile x2), Filco Majestouch x2 (TKL MX Blue & V2 AI 104 MX Blue), IBM-M x2 (BS & RD), Unicomp-M x5 (BS black on black x2, BS Ivory x2, QT Ultra-Classic), Deck x4 (Legend MX Black & MX Clear, Hassium & Francium w/ MX Brown), DAS III (MX Blue), KBT Pure Pro 60% (MX Red), NMB-RT8256CW+ x2 (black space invader), XArmor U9BL-S (MX Brown) given for free to someone I hate, CM X2 (Trigger/MX Green + Storm TKL/NovaTouch), TVS GOLD (MX Blue) and a many many more (NMB, DELL, MS, ATT, KeyTronic, Etc...)