Adjust typing style between switches (mainly MX to Topre)

[SpAmRaY]

I am far from new here even with my low post count and this wasnt to bring up the flame wars that ensue when Topre vs. MX shows up.  Oh, I also use the search function quite a bit even when it doesnt return very good results... 

It was interesting reading about ultimate typing speeds that was brought up.  I completely agree its 99% user for out right speed.  Its muscle memory and practice.  I am sure if Link didnt practice quite a bit he would never hit 150WPM as a casual typist.  He seems to love to strive for the fastest speed possible and is willing to put in the work for it.  An elite typist would/should be able to hit pretty close to their max on several different keyboards as long as the layout is the same.  It may not all happen on the same day at the same time, but give them a small amount of time to get used to the board, even a day, and I bet they could get close to their max.

My original point for this thread was that I got really thrown off by the feel of Topre after getting so used to the Ergo Clears.  My typing style really needed to change switching back to the Topre and it slowed me down.  It wasnt a lot, but it was marked.  This was for just casual typing like I do all day for work, not in trying to get outright speed on a typing test.  When that happens I tend to type the same way, much more firm and deliberate and switch style seems to make less of a difference.  I also noticed that going from Topre back to Cherry or even Alps didnt pose much of an issue, it was going from another switch over to Topre that really caused me the most problems in readjusting my typing style.

 

Perhaps the thread title should have been something like:

  "Does anyone else have to adjust or change your typing style when switching between Cherry MX and Topre switches?"

Perhaps...  Want me to start a new one?? 

You do know you can edit the title right?

[frvrngn]

I can but I think this thread has about run its course based on how off topic it got so quickly.  I am sure in a few days it will be banished several pages back only to be possibly resurrected by a future search.

EDIT: I went ahead and changed it.  Maybe it will get more feedback now.

[MKULTRA]

I can but I think this thread has about run its course based on how off topic it got so quickly.  I am sure in a few days it will be banished several pages back only to be possibly resurrected by a future search.

I wish that was the case.  Unfortunately (as you have demonstrated) people here don't use the search function.  This exact topic has literally been discussed probably hundereds of times here.

[frvrngn]

I can but I think this thread has about run its course based on how off topic it got so quickly.  I am sure in a few days it will be banished several pages back only to be possibly resurrected by a future search.

I wish that was the case.  Unfortunately (as you have demonstrated) people here don't use the search function.  This exact topic has literally been discussed probably hundereds of times here.

I have been here over three years now and have used the search function too many times to count.  This "exact" topic has not come up in searches I made.  There are plenty of flame wars of Topre vs "x" switch as for some reason many like to dump on Topre and just as many feel the need to vigorously defend the switch from all attacks.  Normally that has to do with maybe buying one vs the other or why Topre is so expensive or should I try Topre. 

Thanks for commenting regardless even though you have nothing to add to the thread, at least it keeps it near the top of the page 

[MKULTRA]

I can but I think this thread has about run its course based on how off topic it got so quickly.  I am sure in a few days it will be banished several pages back only to be possibly resurrected by a future search.

I wish that was the case.  Unfortunately (as you have demonstrated) people here don't use the search function.  This exact topic has literally been discussed probably hundereds of times here.

I have been here over three years now and have used the search function too many times to count.  This "exact" topic has not come up in searches I made.  There are plenty of flame wars of Topre vs "x" switch as for some reason many like to dump on Topre and just as many feel the need to vigorously defend the switch from all attacks.  Normally that has to do with maybe buying one vs the other or why Topre is so expensive or should I try Topre. 

Thanks for commenting regardless even though you have nothing to add to the thread, at least it keeps it near the top of the page 

I already answered the question of this thread earlier.  If I wasn't on my phone right now I would go find threads just like these.

[frvrngn]

Feel free to post later.  I did some searching today and didnt find much...

Edit: changed my search terms quite a few times and I would guess these are the closest for you:
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=47440.0

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=49594.0

Maybe this one? http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=51413.0

Regardless, they all have similarities but none are the same.  If you want to go by similarities then I bet half the topics on here would drive you nuts.

[MKULTRA]

Feel free to post later.  I did some searching today and didnt find much...

Edit: changed my search terms quite a few times and I would guess these are the closest for you:
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=47440.0

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=49594.0

Maybe this one? http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=51413.0

Regardless, they all have similarities but none are the same.  If you want to go by similarities then I bet half the topics on here would drive you nuts.

Pretty much.  I try and stay out of this board because of all the redundant questions.

"I'm a gamer, what switch?"
"What switch will I like?"
"Is gaming on Topre okay?"

[Linkbane]

BWMan - I think your car analogy is a little flawed.  I raced competitively for over 20 yrs (autocross and time trials) and I think you are going about it wrong.  You are talking about two different cars and having the driver do the same lap time.  Its not going to happen, even on an elite level like two different F1 cars.  You are going to get really darn close if the cars are that similar but I think its the wrong way to think about this.

How about the same car (switch) and multiple drivers?  Lets take your BW board and put me, Link and Sean Wrona on it.  Same switch for all.  I am 99.9% sure that Link will crush my typing speed and Sean would most likely beat Link (unless Link leaves it in Dvorak without saying anything!!).  Same board, same switch, three pretty varied speeds.  I max at 100wpm on good days, Link is at 150 and Sean has been over 200 on good days.  Put all of us on a cheap membrane board and I am sure the outcome would be the same.  We may not all hit the same max speed right away but I bet the percentage of difference across the three of us would be pretty close to the same.

Tux pretty much said the above - keep the board/car the same and give it two different users and you will see a much greater difference vs. same user on different cars/boards.  I saw this first hand in many events.  We had fun runs all the time at the end of races and one of the favorites was to take some random car (usually a rental!) and then see what driver could get the fastest time.  Same car for all, same amount of seat time for all, but there were pretty wide ranging results depending on the talent of the driver.

This is better than anything I could have said. Sorry about the thread derailment, I apologize on going off on such a tangent with BWman. I do say that I generally type better on mechanicals, but I really don't mind the feel of rubber domes that much, they give me quite good tactility. Really the keyboard to me is as you say, perhaps a few percent at most of performance. I might type faster on a less favorable board some days versus others, but that's because I'm having a good day, not because I'm better on a RD vs a Blue.

If I had the keyboards, it'd be fun to do a 10-set test with every switch.

[frvrngn]

Link - have you tried a Topre board?  Curious what you think of them if you have.  I will admit that the hype and sound clips are what drew me to them.  As much as I appreciate their smoothness and that sound I dont know if I can say they are my favorite switch for all day use.

[1pq]

I do say that I generally type better on mechanicals, but I really don't mind the feel of rubber domes that much, they give me quite good tactility. Really the keyboard

I don't want to get on another tangent here, but I'm just very curious -- do you find Topres worse than normal domes for typing fast? From other threads, I gather that you are certainly not a fan of typing on them. You say here that rubber domes give you good tactility--but aren't topres more tactile than normal rubber domes?

[Linkbane]

I do say that I generally type better on mechanicals, but I really don't mind the feel of rubber domes that much, they give me quite good tactility. Really the keyboard

I don't want to get on another tangent here, but I'm just very curious -- do you find Topres worse than normal domes for typing fast? From other threads, I gather that you are certainly not a fan of typing on them. You say here that rubber domes give you good tactility--but aren't topres more tactile than normal rubber domes?

Oh, definitely not. Rubber domes are very tactile. Topres are smooth and similar to browns.

Link - have you tried a Topre board?  Curious what you think of them if you have.  I will admit that the hype and sound clips are what drew me to them.  As much as I appreciate their smoothness and that sound I dont know if I can say they are my favorite switch for all day use.

I have briefly, and I thought it was quite nice. It felt luxurious, although inefficient towards speed; the sound is really nice, but I wouldn't type on them very much versus Blues, except maybe when I was bored.

[frvrngn]

That is how I think I am starting to lean.  I like the Topre but dont love it.  I dont have much in my Type Heaven so will probably keep it just to have around as something different to try now and then.  Had I gone all in on a HHKB or RF and I would probably list it.  I think its nice to have a rotation of boards regardless.  For all day typing use I am very happy with Ergo Clears and quiet Matias Alps.  They actually feel pretty similar at speed. 

[Linkbane]

That is how I think I am starting to lean.  I like the Topre but dont love it.  I dont have much in my Type Heaven so will probably keep it just to have around as something different to try now and then.  Had I gone all in on a HHKB or RF and I would probably list it.  I think its nice to have a rotation of boards regardless.  For all day typing use I am very happy with Ergo Clears and quiet Matias Alps.  They actually feel pretty similar at speed.

Waiting to try out a few of Spamray's switches, and if I like them I'd be quite happy to either keep them or mod them to Ergo version.
How do they feel?

[frvrngn]

Ergos?  I find them to be highly tactile feeling but light.  The bump is big and noticeable unlike Browns, but with the light springs they are easy to type on.  I havent lubed mine yet and plan on trying that in the near future.  I hear it makes a nice difference on Ergos but I dont mind the way they are now.

Only thing you may not like is that I cant seem to not bottom out on them.  I can not bottom out on my Matias Alps somewhat easily and I can not bottom on my QFR Reds if I just lightly bounce around the keyboard.  The Ergos, even with the big bump I just seem to blow through the rest of the travel and bottom.  I really dont mind bottoming out with them and its not a harsh or heavy bottoming out.

[Linkbane]

Ergos?  I find them to be highly tactile feeling but light.  The bump is big and noticeable unlike Browns, but with the light springs they are easy to type on.  I havent lubed mine yet and plan on trying that in the near future.  I hear it makes a nice difference on Ergos but I dont mind the way they are now.

Only thing you may not like is that I cant seem to not bottom out on them.  I can not bottom out on my Matias Alps somewhat easily and I can not bottom on my QFR Reds if I just lightly bounce around the keyboard.  The Ergos, even with the big bump I just seem to blow through the rest of the travel and bottom.  I really dont mind bottoming out with them and its not a harsh or heavy bottoming out.

I see. Feeling of the bottom out doesn't particularly bother me as much as the wasted travel, so I suppose ergo-clears wouldn't be for me. Most likely going to settle for super-light Originative 45g springs anyways, so I guess going heavier probably won't help me. Blues are my maiden for now, unless maybe I fall in love with Topres or light Blues for that matter. Thanks for this.

[Polymer]

I would agree that the keyboard doesn't make a very big difference in speed...For the most part a given person will type very close to the same speed on any given keyboard.  There might be some changes for each individual given their preferences, style etc....but given a reasonable time to adjust, most people will probably find each keyboard to be very similar result wise or within a relatively tight range.   

BUT, some people will just enjoy using other switches/keyboards more than others.  Their enjoyment of using the keyboard will be greatly enhanced when using something they like more than others..and even if it is possible they type faster on another type of switch, enjoyment is huge.

There are tons of users that will type slightly faster on say, browns than they do on their favorite reds..but they don't like using browns..they like reds.  So that extra few WPM is meaningless because frankly, maxing out your WPM is not a major factor for most people...Or why get Topre over a normal Rubber dome or even Cherry MX over RD if you type the same speed?  It is simply because you enjoy using them more..they feel better...the experience is enhanced...It isn't an output or objectively 'better' keyboard..it is purely the enjoyment of using it. 

[Linkbane]

I would agree that the keyboard doesn't make a very big difference in speed...For the most part a given person will type very close to the same speed on any given keyboard.  There might be some changes for each individual given their preferences, style etc....but given a reasonable time to adjust, most people will probably find each keyboard to be very similar result wise or within a relatively tight range.   

BUT, some people will just enjoy using other switches/keyboards more than others.  Their enjoyment of using the keyboard will be greatly enhanced when using something they like more than others..and even if it is possible they type faster on another type of switch, enjoyment is huge.

There are tons of users that will type slightly faster on say, browns than they do on their favorite reds..but they don't like using browns..they like reds.  So that extra few WPM is meaningless because frankly, maxing out your WPM is not a major factor for most people...Or why get Topre over a normal Rubber dome or even Cherry MX over RD if you type the same speed?  It is simply because you enjoy using them more..they feel better...the experience is enhanced...It isn't an output or objectively 'better' keyboard..it is purely the enjoyment of using it.

You're assuming that I disagree with you. I'm pretty sure 99% of people on this sate are of the understanding that switches don't make one much faster and most don't really care about speed that much. Do me a favor and stop stalking my posts.

[Polymer]

I didn't think you disagreed with me at all.  In fact, pretty sure you said something to the same extent (even though your race car engine thing shows how little you know about car racing).  I'm just adding another bit to the conversation. 

[Linkbane]

I didn't think you disagreed with me at all.  In fact, pretty sure you said something to the same extent (even though your race car engine thing shows how little you know about car racing).  I'm just adding another bit to the conversation.

Consult earlier response, unplug your internet and remove the hurt from your posterior in the meanwhile. How ironic that you would mention attempting to contribute to a thread.

[Polymer]

I'm sorry the truth hurts dude.  But going back to the car racing thing...The engine isn't the determining factor in which car wins a race.  I'm sure there are times it would be but it never really is.

I am glad we agree though..that really the main component in typing fast is the user..it isn't the keyboard...

[Linkbane]

I'm sorry the truth hurts dude.  But going back to the car racing thing...The engine isn't the determining factor in which car wins a race.  I'm sure there are times it would be but it never really is.

I am glad we agree though..that really the main component in typing fast is the user..it isn't the keyboard...

Indeed.