Flat vs Angled? Wrist rest?

[Keytrun]

Is there a generally accepted keyboard position? Is one better ergonomically? What about the use of a wrist rest? Isn't resting your wrists like that while typing bad for them? I've always angled my keyboard and never used a rest. I keep my wrists upright while typing, which I'm pretty sure is the correct way to do it. Right?

[Lastpilot]

http://lifehacker.com/leave-your-keyboard-feet-folded-in-for-better-ergonomic-514381372
http://www.bakkerelkhuizen.com/ergonomics/feet-in-or-out/

According to this study there may be benefits to having a keyboard angled away from you. o.o

But I've always preferred a flat board :]

[Keytrun]

Thanks a lot. I've been using my keyboard angled my entire life, so I guess its time to fold in the feet, right? I don't want to strain my wrists. For whatever reason, I've been under the impression that angling the keyboard allows easier access to the higher tiered keys (number and f keys). Is that actually the case? or is it just an illusion? Also, for cases like http://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/images/products/large_280_large_280_ALFilcoTKL_black3.jpg do those feet come off for people who want to use it flat? Or do they not even really provide enough of an incline to make a difference?

What about wrist rests? I have to imagine those would be detrimental to your health - unlike kittens, which do nothing but benefit your health in every way.

[metalliqaz]

At work where we have ergonomic desks, I have the negative keyboard angle and it is very good.  Even before that, I always kept my feet in because otherwise it felt like I was pulling my hands back too much to reach the keys.

I haven't been using a wrist wrest but I'm pretty sure I should be.  I just don't because of habit.

[Lastpilot]

@Keytrun: I have similar feet on my KMAC LE and it only produces a 5-degree angle which is sort of negligible when in use. I don't find myself typing very much though, I'm usually either browsing, gaming, or designing so I really only 'type' in short bursts. In my opinion, I think angles have much more impact for prolonged periods of writing.

I was never a fan of wrist rests as I just like to have a minimal setup :]

At work where we have ergonomic desks, I have the negative keyboard angle and it is very good.  Even before that, I always kept my feet in because otherwise it felt like I was pulling my hands back too much to reach the keys.

I haven't been using a wrist wrest but I'm pretty sure I should be.  I just don't because of habit.

Dude that's awesome! Can you measure how much of an angle you are comfortable with?

[JPG]

As far as I know, wrist rest = bad, palm rest = good. I got a wooden palm rest from The Beast a few months ago (was a very lucky winner) and I use it daily at job since I got it and I must say that I am impressed by how perfect the angle on it is. It just feels right and reduce the strain in my wrist for keeping my hand elevated compared to my keyboard. But the key is to have your palms sitting on the palm rest while having nothing in contact with you wrist.

[Keytrun]

I don't really do a lot of typing either. Mainly forum posts / browsing. My main keyboard usage is gaming, and kittens - of course. Does flat / angled have any impact on gaming?

[Photoelectric]

I prefer flat and very lightly angled with low profile keycaps.  That's not really done for a mechanical keyboard, and out of common modern keyboards (maybe Cherry), I've come to appreciate Filco profile (+Cherry-height keycaps) and case style the most (with feet not extended).  I can type comfortably on that without a wrist rest.  For anything taller than that, I need wrist rests.   Those, I think, should either be soft or if not, they are a lot more comfortable with a slant rather than being solid rectangular.

This is a function of how low or high your desk is with respect to your chest.  If your chair is too low or desk is too high, it's going to be uncomfortable to type on tall keyboards, and the angle at which your arms are positioned will be different than if you sit comfortably tall over the desk surface.  Based on that, your need for a wristrest will vary, and you may find that you want a bit of an incline to your keyboard or no incline.  (This is why I'm getting a taller chair for my home desk, as it's too tall, and typing + using the mouse for long periods of time is uncomfortable).

[metalliqaz]

Dude that's awesome! Can you measure how much of an angle you are comfortable with?

I'm sitting at it now but I don't know of any way to measure the angle.  I'd say that the F12 key is about 8mm lower than the top of the Ctrl key.  (OEM profile caps)  The Leopold has some built-in angle, so essentially what I'm doing is defeating the built-in keyboard angle and going just a tiny bit further.

[Niomosy]

My wrists are much happier when the keyboard is angled away from me.  I put an old wrist rest under the front of the keyboard.

[fohat.digs]

As far as I know, wrist rest = bad, palm rest = good.

I never thought of this. I have used a wrist rest for years, but it is my palms that are resting on it.

Gel Rules.

Never use keyboard legs, but my preferred keyboards are huge and curved.

[Keytrun]

So is it better to have it flat directly in front of you? Or angled away from you? I feel like for gaming, having the keyboard away from you would make things difficult.

[Grim Fandango]

One thing to think about , which I think is more important than whether you keyboard is flat or angled, is desk height. As long as I am set up correctly behind the desk, I do not care that much about whether I have my keyboard flat or angled, though I have the habit of keeping it angled.

Wrist rests are not always useful to me. I find that a lot of them, mostly the ones that come attached to the keyboard, are too low to be of any use. Maybe it is my typing style, my palms and wrist are usually not really all that close to the table and I tend to kind of hover above the keyboard.

[Phagocytosis]

I've never heard about angling the keyboard away from you O.o

I use the milestone wristrest that had a GB a couple of years ago and my typing experience has been amazing since. I definitely prefer the acrylic to leather

[Lisjono]

yup same here, milestone probably the best wrist rest ever
i got it from my friend that traveled to korea
the other palmrest like foam or leather will change shape after 1-2year

[BlackWidowMan777]

I bought two or those Grifiti Fat Wrist Pads from Amazon and I can't seem to use them properly. I don't know where to place them in relation to the keyboard and my wrists just get sore real fast and I don't find it easy to type commas and periods where you have to rotate your wrists a tad. I'm sure you guys know the proper way to use these palm and wrist pads but I don't. Someone posed the question some time ago in the ergonomics section: 'exactly where do our wrists end and our palms begin?' because he wanted to know the proper way to use wrist rests ergonomically. Most people just said to find what's comfortable for you. Well, is it the general consensus now that you put your palms on it while typing, or slightly above it and just rest on it when not typing? And do you put the rest slap bang with the edge of the keyboard or a few inches away. These sound like really dumb questions but anyway they have bugged me for some time.

This was the post on how to use wrist rests correctly: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=48291.0

[spremino]

As far as I know, wrist rest = bad, palm rest = good.

AFAIK, any support while typing = bad, floating hands with fingers resting on keys while typing = good.

[opensecret]

I don’t think there’s a correct answer on this one – I think you need to experiment and find what works for you. The given, if you’re a touch typist, is fingers on the home keys. (My rest abuts the front of the keyboard, and it's slightly lower than the tops of the keycaps.)   Then it’s a question of what’s comfortable.  I use my rest as a rest for the heel of my palm.  When I rest or type at a leisurely rate, my palms mostly stay on the rest.  When I type fast (in my case, 80-90 wpm), my palms are mostly up, but they’ll occasionally brush the rest depending on what keys I’m hitting.  I started touch typing in 1954 (required class in 8th grade, big Remington manual typewriters with blank keyboards), and I’ve spent a lot of time at keyboards since.  So far, what I’m doing works for me.

[goobus]

T_T wrist rests are bad? why??

[metalliqaz]

Even though we call them wrist rests, I don't know of anyone that actually rests their wrists on it.  It goes under the base of your palm.

[spremino]

T_T wrist rests are bad? why??

If you rest your wrists on them, then you will compress your nerves, and that is the worst you can do. If you rest your palms while typing, then you will flex your wrists, and that's not healthy either.

"Wrist rest" = something on which you can rest your wrists while your hand are resting, not typing.

[spremino]

I don’t think there’s a correct answer on this one – I think you need to experiment and find what works for you. The given, if you’re a touch typist, is fingers on the home keys.

Looking for what works for us could lead to RSI. Comfortable does not mean healthy in the long run. Correct typing technique is well-known. Why would you tinker with your health, when experimented techniques are available?

When I talked about resting your fingers, I meant that you can actually rest your fingers on stiffer switches. With lighter switches, your hands could become tense because of the tension of avoiding to accidentally fire a keystroke.

[opensecret]

I don’t think there’s a correct answer on this one – I think you need to experiment and find what works for you. The given, if you’re a touch typist, is fingers on the home keys.

Looking for what works for us could lead to RSI. Comfortable does not mean healthy in the long run. Correct typing technique is well-known. Why would you tinker with your health, when experimented techniques are available?

With almost 60 years of typing, no RSI yet, but maybe I need to worry about the long run (although, at my age, the long run isn't as long as it used to be).

Meanwhile, could you point us to the evidence that gives you such certainty about this question?   I'm skeptical that there are very many universal truths here.  I've seen lots of opinions on the web, including this one (which says experts don't all agree), but not serious research:

"There is a growing debate among ergonomic and occupational health experts over the actual need for a wrist rest to perform keyboard and computer mouse work safely. One school of thought suggests that wrist rests do help align the user's hands and wrists while typing or mousing, while another suggests that they may encourage users to relax their hand positions too much while typing. Instead of decreasing the number and severity of carpal tunnel injuries, an improperly used rest may actually cause more repetitive stress injuries (RSI) for those who type or mouse for extended periods of time." (http://www.wisegeek.com/do-i-need-a-wrist-rest-for-my-mouse-pad-and-keyboard.htm )

[spremino]

With almost 60 years of typing, no RSI yet, but maybe I need to worry about the long run (although, at my age, the long run isn't as long as it used to be).

Happy typing birthday, then! I'm happy for you.

Other people may not be that lucky. I wasn't that lucky. Or I should rather say that I was lucky because as soon as I felt something was going wrong with my hands, I adopted countermeasures.

Correct typing technique is not unique in its requirements: piano players, guitar players, also are told to keep their wrists straight. Still, because playing such instruments requires more contortions than typing, many of them still risk problems. Interestingly, RSI seems a modern affliction, whilst typists in the past who typed for a living at blazing speed on stiff typewriters, apparently managed to keep their hands healthy. But, in the past, typists were also trained on proper technique.

Since my hands are such an important asset for me, I would rather be safe than sorry. To each their own.

[opensecret]

With almost 60 years of typing, no RSI yet, but maybe I need to worry about the long run (although, at my age, the long run isn't as long as it used to be).

Correct typing technique is not unique in its requirements: piano players, guitar players, also are told to keep their wrists straight.

I agree that keeping the wrist straight is good advice.  It's hard to see how awkward positions or movements could be good for your wrist. 

I've been using a rest for the last 7 years, since I got my first Rollermouse.  At the time, I thought I might have carpal tunnel in my right arm; it took a while to figure out that the problem was in my neck (cervical spine), not my arm.  That's been corrected with the help of a good physical therapist, but I still like the Rollermouse, and I think it helps reduce motion and keep my wrists straight.

[spremino]

I agree that keeping the wrist straight is good advice.  It's hard to see how awkward positions or movements could be good for your wrist. 

Now that I think about it, only a small percentage of people seem to be predisposed to RSI. I have yet to see someone who types while using proper technique, yet complaints about pain are rare. It must also be said that most people don't type (continuously) as much as they think.

[Oobly]

This thread probably belongs more in "Ergonomics" than here, but no worries.

I don't use a rest for my mouse hand at all, just rest the "bone" of my palm on the desk when not actively moving the mouse.

I also don't use a rest for a lot of rubber dome boards, as they're not too tall. I keep the board flat. For mechanical boards or other taller boards I like to use a rest and place the same "bone" of my palms on it while not actively typing.

I keep my chair high and desk low.

For both I don't rest my hands when my fingers / mouse are in use.

[IMHB]

The wrist rest I'm using are the standard leather wrist rest....normally I think something soft and with just a little flat level would help....although I always like to adjust my keyboard up though...

[Linkbane]

I prefer angling my keyboard with feet, as I miss some keystrokes without it. It wouldn't make much of a difference, it just makes the keys more accessible, closer to my fingers. However, seeing how a negative angle allows the board to rest more like the hand's resting position, it might be better if you like to rest your wrists.

[kyb]

From http://saveyourself.ca/articles/tennis-elbow.php

If you use a computer heavily, you may wish to invest in some improvements to your computer workstation to aid in healing from “computer elbow”.

Keyboards are straightforward, as there is really only one important thing to know: don’t lift the back of your keyboard. This is a bizarre anachronism that exists only because early keyboard manufacturers wanted computer keyboards to seem more like typewriter keyboards (i.e. steep). However, the ergonomic problem with this is significant. An elevated keyboard forces you to keep the wrists “cocked” into extension, holding all of the extensor muscles of the forearm in contraction. This is Very, Very Bad, and severely aggravates computer elbow situations. Avoid it at all costs. Mitigate it with a gel wrist pad (to lift the heel of the hand).