Lighter Springs for a Model M?

[Aer Fixus]

I normally type on a Model F, but I forgot my Soarer at home and have had to use one of my Model Ms. The weight of the springs isn't an issue, but I thought of the difference between them and then the idea of a feather-light buckling spring.

I'm aware that M and F springs are pretty similar, it's how the switch is built that changes the weight, but I was wondering if one could swap for lighter springs and if the actuation would continue to work properly. What would be even more amazing than a lighter M would be a Model F with an incredibly light actuation force.

There are probably issues with this as IBM most likely designed the mechanism around that specific weight of spring, but I was wondering if anyone had tried this or where I could look for a lighter spring (just a few. And of varying weights to see where the switch stops functioning, if it does. I don't want to order 100s of these things just for an experiment). For the mechanism to work, it might need to be a thinner spring (to buckle correctly). That might require some customization with the key cap, but it would be really cool it if worked. It might also be quieter for those who want it to be.

[1391406]

I'd love to have a Model M with 60g weighted keys.

[fohat.digs]

Me too!

[wcass]

i think that this project starts with good measurements.
 
post them if you got them.

[JPG]

I still have not received my model F, but out of fascination for it and for the fact that if I fall in love with the F switches I will need to find a way to "build" one with a proper layout (yea I know, super big long term project, but it's nice to dream!). I was also thinking that it would be nice to be able to mod the switch the same way we can mod a cherry switch.


My actual conclusion (before having my hands on one haha), is that the main issue with the F and M switches is the actuation detection that is made is a part connected to the spring. What I mean is that the spring (which determines the feel of the switch), is connected to the part that actuates the switch and so has to apply a certain amount of force. For the model F, since there's no contact, the force must be quite low so it's probably not an issue, but still could be. Also, the capacitance detection is harder to manage than an open/close electrical circuit.


So my actual theory is that it would be nice to design a new buclking spring mechanism where the actuation would be completed by an electrical circuit (for more simple pcb) but having this circuit completed by a metal part external to the barrel (on it's side probably) and completed by the stem of something like that. The biggest issue I would see would be the resistance of such a mechanism, but it would be more similar to a cherry mx contact on the side of the barrel.


Otherwise, it would be to become more at easy with the capacitance detection of the F.


It will probably all stay in my head, but if I fall in love with my F, who knows!

[Aer Fixus]

I still have not received my model F, but out of fascination for it and for the fact that if I fall in love with the F switches I will need to find a way to "build" one with a proper layout (yea I know, super big long term project, but it's nice to dream!). I was also thinking that it would be nice to be able to mod the switch the same way we can mod a cherry switch.


My actual conclusion (before having my hands on one haha), is that the main issue with the F and M switches is the actuation detection that is made is a part connected to the spring. What I mean is that the spring (which determines the feel of the switch), is connected to the part that actuates the switch and so has to apply a certain amount of force. For the model F, since there's no contact, the force must be quite low so it's probably not an issue, but still could be. Also, the capacitance detection is harder to manage than an open/close electrical circuit.


So my actual theory is that it would be nice to design a new buclking spring mechanism where the actuation would be completed by an electrical circuit (for more simple pcb) but having this circuit completed by a metal part external to the barrel (on it's side probably) and completed by the stem of something like that. The biggest issue I would see would be the resistance of such a mechanism, but it would be more similar to a cherry mx contact on the side of the barrel.


Otherwise, it would be to become more at easy with the capacitance detection of the F.


It will probably all stay in my head, but if I fall in love with my F, who knows!

I have faith that the current projects to recreate Model Fs and Ms will be successful.
Model M membrane recreation: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=40111.0
Model F recreation: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=51767.0

It might even be within the next year that a group buy pops up for full/DIY modern layout M or F.

I don't think that the separate switch is the best idea. The thing that makes buckling springs better (to me at least) is that the click IS the actuation. The click on another switches just happen at nearly the same time, but I've found that that annoys me and makes the switch feel off.
On the other hand, an electrical circuit could be made against the wall of the barrel by having the spring be electrically connected. So when it hits the wall, it completes the connection.

[0100010]

I'd like heavier springs in mine.  Don't have any nickels in the office to 'measure' what my keys are at currently.

[JPG]

I still have not received my model F, but out of fascination for it and for the fact that if I fall in love with the F switches I will need to find a way to "build" one with a proper layout (yea I know, super big long term project, but it's nice to dream!). I was also thinking that it would be nice to be able to mod the switch the same way we can mod a cherry switch.


My actual conclusion (before having my hands on one haha), is that the main issue with the F and M switches is the actuation detection that is made is a part connected to the spring. What I mean is that the spring (which determines the feel of the switch), is connected to the part that actuates the switch and so has to apply a certain amount of force. For the model F, since there's no contact, the force must be quite low so it's probably not an issue, but still could be. Also, the capacitance detection is harder to manage than an open/close electrical circuit.


So my actual theory is that it would be nice to design a new buclking spring mechanism where the actuation would be completed by an electrical circuit (for more simple pcb) but having this circuit completed by a metal part external to the barrel (on it's side probably) and completed by the stem of something like that. The biggest issue I would see would be the resistance of such a mechanism, but it would be more similar to a cherry mx contact on the side of the barrel.


Otherwise, it would be to become more at easy with the capacitance detection of the F.


It will probably all stay in my head, but if I fall in love with my F, who knows!

I have faith that the current projects to recreate Model Fs and Ms will be successful.
Model M membrane recreation: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=40111.0
Model F recreation: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=51767.0

It might even be within the next year that a group buy pops up for full/DIY modern layout M or F.

I don't think that the separate switch is the best idea. The thing that makes buckling springs better (to me at least) is that the click IS the actuation. The click on another switches just happen at nearly the same time, but I've found that that annoys me and makes the switch feel off.
On the other hand, an electrical circuit could be made against the wall of the barrel by having the spring be electrically connected. So when it hits the wall, it completes the connection.

The electrical spring is documented in the history of the BS, but it was said that they had a problem controlling the bounces. So I suppose that when the spring buckled, it was bouncing a little and it was probably the same as registering many key presses. Just my theory.

[Aer Fixus]

I'd like heavier springs in mine.  Don't have any nickels in the office to 'measure' what my keys are at currently.

I don't see why this project couldn't be to do both. We might as well test heavier springs, too (given that we can find either lighter or heavier).