WHY can't anybody laser cut steel?

[AKmalamute]

I want to have an ergodox. I want to have a metal case. I'd like to arrange a GB so others who feel the way I do, could partake.

I have gone to ergodog.org and downloaded the .dxf files. I was told this is how you proceed. That these are the files machine shops want/need to make the thing you want to hold in your hand when they're done.

I tried some online-free-quote place. They quoted $2,000 USD for just the right hand, standard size lowest plate. Mostly because they believed it was nearly twenty feet across.

I asked a coworker's dad (who works at a shop with such machines as would do the job) and he said there were absolutely no units in the file and no one there could figure a way to even begin to write up a quote because they'd have to recreate the file from scratch so it'd be too expensive to consider.

I e-mailed it to a local shop that has a web presence. No reply. Ever.

I walked into another shop, who said they would need the DXF files. I emailed those to him. He says they're an illegal format. Now, gmail shows me the thumbnail so I thought they were working but I had to jump through some hoops on github to download these, and I have on my work computer the files that used to be housed on ergodox.org (which are no longer there, btw) But, no dice; those are broken too.

WHAT DO I FREAKING NEED TO DO, TO GET A QUOTE?!? To get a case?!?! What are you guys smoking that you keep sending me to the same sources that don't result in cases? What are the shops smoking that they can't read industry standard files? What is going on in my life that I can't move past square one, ever?

[Photekq]

I tried some online-free-quote place. They quoted $2,000 USD for just the right hand, standard size lowest plate. Mostly because they believed it was nearly twenty feet across.

You need to state the standard unit for the files is MM, not inches.

[CPTBadAss]

When I check .dxf drawings, I have to use the measurement tool. There aren't any actual dimensions in the file. One of the projects I worked on, I had technical drawings sent to me and I compared them to the .dxf file.

If your shops are saying they can't use .dxf, you may need to ask them what files they do accept and can they do CNC work. You might have to create a technical drawing for them. I just got quotes from a shop and I sent them a .dwg file. The shop I just got quotes from didn't mention anything to me about the .dxf files I included. They seem to want .dwg files. The shops I deal with in my job want technical drawings as well.

[AKmalamute]

You need to state the standard unit for the files is MM, not inches.

I figured that out after a while. That particular website's automated quote system didn't support such a function. Upload in inches or go elsewhere.

And, everybody please forgive my outburst. I'm just feeling VERY FRUSTRATED right now because I can print on paper a literal, life-sized copy of what I want. Why can't anybody else?

 If I make a stencil out of my sheet of paper, and borrow a drill press, can I use that to cut out the plate...? How does one in the privacy of their home, produce the Litster case out of solid metal?

[metalliqaz]

I went through the same issues.  I went to every place in my state looking for quotes.  Most wouldn't even call me back or respond to my emails.  The ones that did weren't interested in single-unit prototypes.  They wanted to do a large production run.

The few places that do one-off prototypes were very very expensive.  They aren't in business for the hobbyist market at all.

Finally I found BigBlueSaw and I was pretty happy with that.

To answer you question, most laser cut shops that will work on small scale projects don't have equipment that is powerful enough to do heavy duty laser cutting.  Their lasers can only do plastic and thin aluminum.

Laser cutting ferrous materials is very difficult.

[metalliqaz]

You need to state the standard unit for the files is MM, not inches.

In the USA, most of them assume inches.

[AKmalamute]

update: yes, the person I'm speaking with now, needs DXF. But his computer has TurboCad 10. He tried 16 but it "had issues" with his library of existing files so he was forced to uninstall it.

Is there a process to convert "new" DXF files to turbo cad's v10 .dxf files ...?

[CPTBadAss]

If he's uninstalling it, can he install AutoCAD or Solidworks? Those have worked well for me and .dxf. I'm not familiar with TurboCAD. AFAIK, a .dxf is a .dxf.

[SpAmRaY]

update: yes, the person I'm speaking with now, needs DXF. But his computer has TurboCad 10. He tried 16 but it "had issues" with his library of existing files so he was forced to uninstall it.

Is there a process to convert "new" DXF files to turbo cad's v10 .dxf files ...?

Basically he is using software that is ~9 - 10 years old...so you would want to save the dxf to probably 2000 version to be safe (I'm thinking in autocad terms other cad programs may be different)

and turbocad is is like $10-$100 depending on version at amazon

[AKmalamute]

It's not the money of the license ... he's got a purchased copy of 16, and can't use it because it would stop production if he did.

Vendor lock-in, you know?

 I suppose I could try to get some sort of trial version of autoCAD and see if I could export it into an older DXF format. That's probably the only way forward since their shop relies on decade old software.

Metalliqaz: I'll look at BigBlueSaw during lunch today if I can. Thanks and I think I heard some other forum member mention them too, in another thread.

[SpAmRaY]

It's not the money of the license ... he's got a purchased copy of 16, and can't use it because it would stop production if he did.

Vendor lock-in, you know?

 I suppose I could try to get some sort of trial version of autoCAD and see if I could export it into an older DXF format. That's probably the only way forward since their shop relies on decade old software.

Metalliqaz: I'll look at BigBlueSaw during lunch today if I can. Thanks and I think I heard some other forum member mention them too, in another thread.

I can easily save any file to any version I just need the file

[CPTBadAss]

I suppose I could try to get some sort of trial version of autoCAD and see if I could export it into an older DXF format. That's probably the only way forward since their shop relies on decade old software.

AutoDesk Inventor is another option for CAD and it's free.

[metalliqaz]

If the dude can't even figure out CAD software, don't do business with him.  Work with a company that knows what they are doing.

[AKmalamute]

If the dude can't even figure out CAD software, don't do business with him.  Work with a company that knows what they are doing.

Which leaves him doing business happily, and me without a keyboard case.

Also, BigBlueSaw is the site that I tried uploading to, and it quoted $2,000+ for each piece. Inches or GTFO ... but of course their web page doesn't say that.

However, now that I know that recent versions of Inkscape can read/write DXF files, I was able to make a copy that used inches, and got a much more reasonable quote of $30 assuming five copies (IC/GB anyone?)

[jdcarpe]

If the dude can't even figure out CAD software, don't do business with him.  Work with a company that knows what they are doing.

Which leaves him doing business happily, and me without a keyboard case.

Also, BigBlueSaw is the site that I tried uploading to, and it quoted $2,000+ for each piece. Inches or GTFO ... but of course their web page doesn't say that.

However, now that I know that recent versions of Inkscape can read/write DXF files, I was able to make a copy that used inches, and got a much more reasonable quote of $30 assuming five copies (IC/GB anyone?)

That's $30 per layer, per hand, right? For 0.060" stainless steel, right?

[AKmalamute]

That's $30 per layer, per hand, right? For 0.060" stainless steel, right?

.09in, and so far only the bottom layer has worked. The others it can only find the 'holes" as things to make ... the contours apparently aren't connected or something. FAQ page is missing.

.06, assuming 5-9 purchased, is $21, plus six and a half for sanding after that. Yes, per layer and if the rest of the pieces were interpretable it should be something in that ballpark for the other layers.

I think that works out to $300 for a full case, (but I can't test that) but I bet there are corners that could be cut. For instance, layers 2, and 4, made out of cork/gasket material. It would reduce the weight but probably not the stiffness, and should reduce cost quite a bit.

[metalliqaz]

I would caution against doing metal plates at BBS.  Their waterjet cutting process is not as precise as you might hope.

Top and bottom will be fine, but for switch and stab cutouts, not so much

[jdcarpe]

I have used pololu.com for laser cutting 0.060" stainless. You could send them the files, and let them know the measurements are in mm. They will get back to you with a quote.

[Larken]

actually, I did send in quotes to pololo for a steel and wood mix. Layers 1 3 5 using 0.06" stainless steel (approx. 1.5mm)

Layers 2 and 4 using 6mm baltic birch (though when I looked at it again, I realised that layer 2 doesn't require something that thick, but you do need that amount of thickness so the caps don't stick far up above the surface of the ergodox)

Thickness

The default thicknesses in millimeters are 3, 4.5, 4.5, 4.5, 3 for acrylic. As pololu is only capable of cutting 1.5mm steel, you'd either need to make extra cuts of 2 and 4 in steel (4 of each minimum to maintain the same dimensions, or use a filler).

The layers I sent to get cut was in the orders of, from top to bottom, 1.5mm (steel), 6mm baltic birch (I recommend using acrylic instead, wood would require finishing), 1.5 mm steel layer 3, 6 mm layer 4, and lastly a 1.5mm bottom plate. You'd realise that layer 4 compensates for the thickness lost for layer 3 ONLY, so the overall case would be thinner, and you might have to look into some insulation material to look between 4 and 5, and also, the screws and nuts required to secure the case would be shorter than 22mm.

Original case thickness was 19.5mm. The one I wanted to send in was 16.5 mm thick. There might not be enough clearance at the bottom, so you might want to consider doing a 3mm layer 4 (to compensate for layer 3's loss in thickness) + 4.5mm layer 4 (same as original), for a total thickness of 18mm. The loss in thickness is from the top plate, which wouldn't matter; bottom plate being too close to the pcb might result in shorts.

The returned quote was under 200 usd.

I didn't get it cut in the end, as I realised that the dxf file on layer 3 had the cutouts for the stabs wrong, and I don't know cad well enough to fix it myself (ideally, I'd want to modify it to accept cherry stabs too instead of just costar, so you might want to look into that before you send in your files). They won't have any issues working with the dxf files from the site, though you should probably look into modifying the stab cutouts prior to sending the files in.

Hope this helps.

[AKmalamute]

Thank you Spamaray, he can see the files now.

So, thicknesses.

If we use a real keyboard plate, there'll be a gap between layer 3, and the PCB, right? Won't that be mighty close to another 1.5mm ? So my current thought (pipe up if you've seen something akin to this problem) is have another layer-4 cut, and shove it between the plate and the PCB, so there's no air gap in the case.

So, lets postulate I offer to run a GB. What would you guys think about a hybrid case, like the one Larken describe ... alternating SS (or aluminum) and acrylic? Would anybody here pay $200-ish to get one? $250? Not 'til it dropped to $150?

 I'll write back when I get some numbers ... which it looks like I can do before the end of the year, finally!

EDIT:
I figured out what I had to do with the existing files to convince BBS to see it properly. Or at least I fixed layer 4. It's price was nearly the same as the others, so they're mostly charging for material cut away, and setup time. That means that for 10, through 49 people ordering together, it would cost about $250USD for a no-bead-blasting steel or aluminum ergodox case. Which would also be sans M3 screws, and drilling/tapping for same ... a small cost to shove off onto the end user but something to consider.

Takers? Do we have nine more of me here?