Author Topic: No Topre switch stiff enough?  (Read 6141 times)

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Offline johndavis33

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No Topre switch stiff enough?
« on: Tue, 24 December 2013, 18:58:39 »
I'm looking to get an HHKB, but I'm iffy about topre switches. 45g seems really light, and they only go up to 55g. For reference, my favorite switch as of now is cherry mx greens. IMO, blues are way too light to type on. I don't need greens level stiffness, but I won't be able to like topre switches if they're somehow lighter than blues. Are they at least as stiff as clears? For reference, I've typed on blues, blacks, greens, and clears.
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Offline Belfong

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Re: No Topre switch stiff enough?
« Reply #1 on: Tue, 24 December 2013, 19:20:30 »
45g is almost like Blue in HHKB so you are likely out of luck here!
 

Offline johndavis33

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Re: No Topre switch stiff enough?
« Reply #2 on: Tue, 24 December 2013, 19:27:30 »
45g is almost like Blue in HHKB so you are likely out of luck here!

Ahhh, darn it!

Is it at least more tactile? Because even though the springs on clears aren't supposed to be much stiffer than blues, the bump is much bigger so I can deal with those.
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Offline Belfong

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Re: No Topre switch stiff enough?
« Reply #3 on: Tue, 24 December 2013, 19:40:47 »
On tactility, I can't say that for sure as I don't touch type all the time. I'll leave that to some other expert. Having said that, I use Clears at home and HHKB at work and I find the HHKB bumped back slightly faster than Clears, almost like how Blues feel.
 

Offline quickcrx702

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Re: No Topre switch stiff enough?
« Reply #4 on: Tue, 24 December 2013, 23:03:17 »
45g is almost like Blue in HHKB so you are likely out of luck here!

Ahhh, darn it!

Is it at least more tactile? Because even though the springs on clears aren't supposed to be much stiffer than blues, the bump is much bigger so I can deal with those.

No.  If tactility and amazing feel is what you are after, 55g is what you need.  I have both, and since I am a heavy typer the 55g gets used MUCH more.  If they made a 65g Topre board I would be on it like flies on ****, but alas, they do not.

Offline 1pq

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Re: No Topre switch stiff enough?
« Reply #5 on: Tue, 24 December 2013, 23:22:16 »
45g is almost like Blue in HHKB so you are likely out of luck here!
I think this is only true if you're talking about new, out of the box blues. I find used blues (any used mx switch) get a lot lighter with time, and Topre 45g is significantly heavier than my (1.5 year old) heavily used blues. With regards to the OP, I think you'd much prefer 55g. I doubt you'd want stiffer, though.

Also, you should consider that while mx switches get lighter with time, topre switches get slightly heavier.
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Offline tuxsavvy

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Re: No Topre switch stiff enough?
« Reply #6 on: Wed, 25 December 2013, 01:08:57 »
45g is almost like Blue in HHKB so you are likely out of luck here!
I think this is only true if you're talking about new, out of the box blues. I find used blues (any used mx switch) get a lot lighter with time, and Topre 45g is significantly heavier than my (1.5 year old) heavily used blues. With regards to the OP, I think you'd much prefer 55g. I doubt you'd want stiffer, though.

Also, you should consider that while mx switches get lighter with time, topre switches get slightly heavier.
Hence I was about to suggest a weird and whacky idea of swapping Topre rubber domes with someone that has a worn rubber dome. Maybe the stiffer rubber domes will benefit those who want more firmer feel whilst on the other hand, the other gets a sort of new life with the HHKB.

All the merrier really to start trading around new for old rubber domes.  ;D
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Offline terran5992

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Re: No Topre switch stiff enough?
« Reply #7 on: Wed, 25 December 2013, 03:10:37 »
45g is almost like Blue in HHKB so you are likely out of luck here!

One does not simply complete Cherry mx blue with topre

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Offline rowdy

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Re: No Topre switch stiff enough?
« Reply #8 on: Wed, 25 December 2013, 04:23:23 »
HHKB (45g?) is much lighter than blacks, and I suppose greens.  I switched from HHKB to MX black for a little while, and the blacks just felt too stiff.

Also consider that I use MX greens all day at work, and my fingers are fairly strong.

So I switched from MX reds, which actually feel slightly lighter than HHKB.

However that is probably because the Topre switches provide an amount of tactile feedback, mainly at the start of the key stroke, after which they are buttery smooth all the way to the bottom, whereas MX reds is linear and soft all the way down.
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

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Offline johndavis33

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Re: No Topre switch stiff enough?
« Reply #9 on: Wed, 25 December 2013, 11:13:43 »
45g is almost like Blue in HHKB so you are likely out of luck here!
I think this is only true if you're talking about new, out of the box blues. I find used blues (any used mx switch) get a lot lighter with time, and Topre 45g is significantly heavier than my (1.5 year old) heavily used blues. With regards to the OP, I think you'd much prefer 55g. I doubt you'd want stiffer, though.

Also, you should consider that while mx switches get lighter with time, topre switches get slightly heavier.
Hence I was about to suggest a weird and whacky idea of swapping Topre rubber domes with someone that has a worn rubber dome. Maybe the stiffer rubber domes will benefit those who want more firmer feel whilst on the other hand, the other gets a sort of new life with the HHKB.

All the merrier really to start trading around new for old rubber domes.  ;D

Maybe a used HHKB is what I need to get? I busted out my blue keyboard again and it's really not the lightness that gets me, it's the lack of tactile feedback. Blues feel practically linear to me after using greens!
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Offline Polymer

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Re: No Topre switch stiff enough?
« Reply #10 on: Wed, 25 December 2013, 18:30:37 »
HHKB (45g?) is much lighter than blacks, and I suppose greens.  I switched from HHKB to MX black for a little while, and the blacks just felt too stiff.

Also consider that I use MX greens all day at work, and my fingers are fairly strong.

So I switched from MX reds, which actually feel slightly lighter than HHKB.

However that is probably because the Topre switches provide an amount of tactile feedback, mainly at the start of the key stroke, after which they are buttery smooth all the way to the bottom, whereas MX reds is linear and soft all the way down.

MX reds are significantly lighter than Topre IMO...mainly because Reds start off so light and by the time you press down reds (or browns even) significantly, you have momentum on your side...vs 45g Topre which require all of the force at the beginning.  There is no way to "lightly" type on Topre..it is all the force you need or nothing. 

MX Reds feel a lot like 30g Topre (although a bit stiffer) to me because the starting point for MX reds is similar that and 30g Topre don't seem to collapse in the same way...

Offline tuxsavvy

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Re: No Topre switch stiff enough?
« Reply #11 on: Wed, 25 December 2013, 19:47:41 »
45g is almost like Blue in HHKB so you are likely out of luck here!
I think this is only true if you're talking about new, out of the box blues. I find used blues (any used mx switch) get a lot lighter with time, and Topre 45g is significantly heavier than my (1.5 year old) heavily used blues. With regards to the OP, I think you'd much prefer 55g. I doubt you'd want stiffer, though.

Also, you should consider that while mx switches get lighter with time, topre switches get slightly heavier.
Hence I was about to suggest a weird and whacky idea of swapping Topre rubber domes with someone that has a worn rubber dome. Maybe the stiffer rubber domes will benefit those who want more firmer feel whilst on the other hand, the other gets a sort of new life with the HHKB.

All the merrier really to start trading around new for old rubber domes.  ;D

Maybe a used HHKB is what I need to get? I busted out my blue keyboard again and it's really not the lightness that gets me, it's the lack of tactile feedback. Blues feel practically linear to me after using greens!
That is what I am guessing. There are some people whom reported the Topre rubber domes stiffen over time (though others have sort of shrugged off that case as being true).

You don't really need to go buy a used HHKB unless you want to have two HHKB keyboards.If you have already bought HHKB, I guess there maybe some forum members here or maybe on deskthority on instance that may want to trade older Topre rubber dome for instance with a newer one. This case may work out to be far cheaper because both you and the other party are interested in each other's Topre rubber dome. You for instance wants older one, one that has been worn in or maybe found someone who is willing to trade their older Topre rubber dome but from another keyboard (for instance) and then this other party would prefer the lighter feeling of 45g or new sort of Topre rubber dome feel.

I am uncertain if straight up buying a used HHKB would give you heavier feel, but that might be worth a try I suppose. For starters you save a bit of money at that for going on preloved ones. Also the stiffening may not happen on all the keys. Some keys may be more stiffen the others so the feel maybe a little inconsistent.

In the end this may work out to be a win:win situation whereby you get the same amount of Topre rubber domes (used or otherwise heavier) from this other party and this other party can enjoy the lighter/newer feeling of Topre rubber domes. Though that would be an ideal case, I am not sure if there is anyone willing to look into that sort of fancy idea. Worst comes to worst, you will need to buy another Topre based keyboard (either as used with X amounts of years of usage or so, or with heavier Topre rubber dome) and harvest the rubber domes from.

To make Topre feel harder to type on (or maybe more firmer) is all about the rubber dome that sits on top of the conical springs. The springs and sliders, etc does not necessarily make the Topre board more firmer to type on.
« Last Edit: Wed, 25 December 2013, 23:37:34 by tuxsavvy »
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Offline rowdy

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Re: No Topre switch stiff enough?
« Reply #12 on: Wed, 25 December 2013, 21:22:18 »
HHKB (45g?) is much lighter than blacks, and I suppose greens.  I switched from HHKB to MX black for a little while, and the blacks just felt too stiff.

Also consider that I use MX greens all day at work, and my fingers are fairly strong.

So I switched from MX reds, which actually feel slightly lighter than HHKB.

However that is probably because the Topre switches provide an amount of tactile feedback, mainly at the start of the key stroke, after which they are buttery smooth all the way to the bottom, whereas MX reds is linear and soft all the way down.

MX reds are significantly lighter than Topre IMO...mainly because Reds start off so light and by the time you press down reds (or browns even) significantly, you have momentum on your side...vs 45g Topre which require all of the force at the beginning.  There is no way to "lightly" type on Topre..it is all the force you need or nothing. 

MX Reds feel a lot like 30g Topre (although a bit stiffer) to me because the starting point for MX reds is similar that and 30g Topre don't seem to collapse in the same way...


And all the force results in that oh-so-nice thock!
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

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Offline Polymer

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Re: No Topre switch stiff enough?
« Reply #13 on: Wed, 25 December 2013, 22:34:02 »
And all the force results in that oh-so-nice thock!

Hahaa..the 30g don't seem to thock right..but that's fine...Oddly enough, while I enjoy using my HHKB more, I know that for longer sessions of where I need to use the keyboard, a variable is just far easier on my hands..

Offline kaiteoki

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Re: No Topre switch stiff enough?
« Reply #14 on: Tue, 18 November 2014, 23:39:55 »
Been using my type heaven ever since release. The switches now take about 70grams of force to press a key. Using 5gram nickels to test it

Offline rowdy

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Re: No Topre switch stiff enough?
« Reply #15 on: Wed, 19 November 2014, 02:58:54 »
Been using my type heaven ever since release. The switches now take about 70grams of force to press a key. Using 5gram nickels to test it

Bit of a necro bump there ;)

Odd - every review I've seen says Type Heaven is 45g.
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

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Offline thecampfire

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Re: No Topre switch stiff enough?
« Reply #16 on: Wed, 19 November 2014, 08:45:39 »
I use a 55g 87u and a Matias Laptop Pro. The Matias Quiet switches are advertised as 60 ± 5g. That does not seem like much of a difference but personally I find the Matias Quiet significantly stiffer and springier than the 55g Topres. Maybe you can find a way to try them out, you might like them. I for one prefer the 55g by far.

Offline Lurch

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Re: No Topre switch stiff enough?
« Reply #17 on: Wed, 19 November 2014, 08:47:56 »
If you prefer the heavier switches, try 55g.
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Offline Hypersphere

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Re: No Topre switch stiff enough?
« Reply #18 on: Wed, 19 November 2014, 08:55:41 »
The feel of Topre is so much different from Cherry mx, it is difficult to compare or extrapolate from one to the other.

My current favorite switches are IBM capacitive buckling spring (Model F) and Topre. I enjoy typing on my 45g HHKB Pro 2 (case-mounted switches), and I also like my RF 87ub 55g (plate-mounted switches).

If you try the HHKB Pro 2 and want a heavier switch, it is possible to transfer the domes from a 55g RF into a HHKB Pro 2.


Offline Macsmasher

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Re: No Topre switch stiff enough?
« Reply #19 on: Wed, 19 November 2014, 22:20:10 »
I have a HHKB Pro 2 with 45s, and both the variable silent and the 55g RF 87U. I find the 55g too stiff for me and mostly use the variable or HHKB.

Like others have said, it's hard to compare Topre to Cherry MX. The only way to find out for yourself it to buy one. Sorry dood.

Offline johndavis33

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Re: No Topre switch stiff enough?
« Reply #20 on: Thu, 20 November 2014, 16:13:59 »
This thread is almost a year old, I think so I'm surprised it's back here. I guess I'll give an update.

I did get an HHKB about 3 months ago. Despite the fact that I still can't use any of the lighter cherry switches, 45g topre feels fine. It definately feels much stiffer than blues. It's almost stiffer than clears. Anyways, I feel like I'm happy with it. If anyone else is concerned 45g topre will be too light for them, unless you've been using mx greys for years theny ou'll probably be fine.
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Offline saturnotaku

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Re: No Topre switch stiff enough?
« Reply #21 on: Thu, 20 November 2014, 16:28:55 »
I disagree. I had a WASD CODE with MX Clears for a bit and to me, those were far and away stiffer than both the HHKB and 45g Realforce I'm using now. The HHKB is definitely stiffer than Browns (my preferred MX switch), but by just the right amount to not feel tiring after a full day of typing.

Offline Grim Fandango

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Re: No Topre switch stiff enough?
« Reply #22 on: Thu, 20 November 2014, 16:46:49 »
Crazy people up in here. To me, 55g is already too much resistance. I could not get through a workday without getting frustrated on anything >50g.
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Offline rowdy

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Re: No Topre switch stiff enough?
« Reply #23 on: Thu, 20 November 2014, 17:38:18 »
This thread is almost a year old, I think so I'm surprised it's back here. I guess I'll give an update.

I did get an HHKB about 3 months ago. Despite the fact that I still can't use any of the lighter cherry switches, 45g topre feels fine. It definately feels much stiffer than blues. It's almost stiffer than clears. Anyways, I feel like I'm happy with it. If anyone else is concerned 45g topre will be too light for them, unless you've been using mx greys for years theny ou'll probably be fine.

Thank you for hanging around, and thank you for providing an update :)

I'd agree that 45g Topre feels heavier than MX blues or reds.

I find MX blues and reds too light.  Blues are barely tolerable.

Most of the time I use blacks and greens (using greens atm).

When I switch back to my HHKB I feel that it is between reds/blues and blacks/greens, but I do still feel it is too light.
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

Ị̸͚̯̲́ͤ̃͑̇̑ͯ̊̂͟ͅs̞͚̩͉̝̪̲͗͊ͪ̽̚̚ ̭̦͖͕̑́͌ͬͩ͟t̷̻͔̙̑͟h̹̠̼͋ͤ͋i̤̜̣̦̱̫͈͔̞ͭ͑ͥ̌̔s̬͔͎̍̈ͥͫ̐̾ͣ̔̇͘ͅ ̩̘̼͆̐̕e̞̰͓̲̺̎͐̏ͬ̓̅̾͠͝ͅv̶̰͕̱̞̥̍ͣ̄̕e͕͙͖̬̜͓͎̤̊ͭ͐͝ṇ̰͎̱̤̟̭ͫ͌̌͢͠ͅ ̳̥̦ͮ̐ͤ̎̊ͣ͡͡n̤̜̙̺̪̒͜e̶̻̦̿ͮ̂̀c̝̘̝͖̠̖͐ͨͪ̈̐͌ͩ̀e̷̥͇̋ͦs̢̡̤ͤͤͯ͜s͈̠̉̑͘a̱͕̗͖̳̥̺ͬͦͧ͆̌̑͡r̶̟̖̈͘ỷ̮̦̩͙͔ͫ̾ͬ̔ͬͮ̌?̵̘͇͔͙ͥͪ͞ͅ

Offline RoflCopter4

  • Posts: 211
  • Location: Alberta, Canada
Re: No Topre switch stiff enough?
« Reply #24 on: Fri, 21 November 2014, 02:29:03 »
Just come over to the dark side and get yourself a model M. You won't find a more pleasantly stiff key out there.
Acer KB-101A with Blue Alps | HHKB Pro 2 | '85 122 Key IBM Model F | '86 1390131 "Silver Label" Model M | AEK M0115 with Orange Alps | Focus FK-2001 White Alps | Chicony 5181 with SMK "Monterey Blue" Switches | Dell AT101W | Unicomp "Ultra Classic" | Razer Blackwidow 2013

Offline daerid

  • Posts: 4276
  • Location: Denver, CO
    • Rossipedia
Re: No Topre switch stiff enough?
« Reply #25 on: Fri, 21 November 2014, 11:02:28 »
I really should've kept the 55g AE that I bought off boost. That was unusually stiff. I measured a few keys (using the nickel method), and they ended up somewhere around 80g.

Offline kaiteoki

  • Posts: 32
Re: No Topre switch stiff enough?
« Reply #26 on: Sat, 22 November 2014, 03:09:39 »
I really should've kept the 55g AE that I bought off boost. That was unusually stiff. I measured a few keys (using the nickel method), and they ended up somewhere around 80g.
my type heaven 45g went to 70g in about 1 year worth of usage. Also used nickels to test some of my keys

Offline Veridis

  • Posts: 118
  • Location: Singapore
Re: No Topre switch stiff enough?
« Reply #27 on: Mon, 24 November 2014, 05:35:24 »
I really should've kept the 55g AE that I bought off boost. That was unusually stiff. I measured a few keys (using the nickel method), and they ended up somewhere around 80g.
my type heaven 45g went to 70g in about 1 year worth of usage. Also used nickels to test some of my keys
Wow, what did it start off at? That's crazy.
Ducky Shine 3 TKL (MX Brown) | CM Rapid-i (MX Brown) | Realforce 87u 45g Uniform | CM Novatouch | Ducky Zero TKL (MX Brown) | Das Keyboard III (MX Blue)

Offline CPTBadAss

  • Woke up like this
  • Posts: 14383
    • Tactile Zine
Re: No Topre switch stiff enough?
« Reply #28 on: Mon, 24 November 2014, 06:22:01 »
Get a hold of a TG3 BL-82 aka Data 911 aka Police/Cop car keyboard. It's got a splashguard over MX Blacks and more than one person has said it feels like 65g Topre. I like the feeling better than Topre to be honest.

Offline Ngt

  • * Elevated Elder
  • Posts: 2346
  • Location: Switzerland
Re: No Topre switch stiff enough?
« Reply #29 on: Mon, 24 November 2014, 10:08:19 »
Perhaps I misunderstood what I read previously but did you say that HHKB 45g are stiffer than RF 45g?


I'm fairly new to the mechanical keyboard world. I started with MX Brown and then got myself some MX Blue. I had to say that I felt the difference of force required between those. I'm warming my mind about some Topre 45g and I wonder if they are more like MX Brown or a bit stiffer like MX Blue. I thought they were closer to Brown. If there is a difference between the 45g in HHKB and RF, which MX switches are they the closest to?

Silenced Novatouch w/ Hack'd by Geeks

Sold: Ducky Zero Shine (Brown) | Poker 2 (Blue) | HHKB 55g Type-S

Offline Hypersphere

  • Posts: 1886
  • Location: USA
Re: No Topre switch stiff enough?
« Reply #30 on: Mon, 24 November 2014, 11:50:58 »
The overall feel of a given switch depends on characteristics other than the actuation force.

For example, look at the force-displacement curves for a Cherry mx brown and Topre switches, including 45g:


Cherry mx Brown 45 cN ("grams") actuation force


Topre 30 and 45 cN ("grams") actuation force

In a Cherry mx brown switch, there is a stem that pushes down on a helical spring. The stem has a bump that requires additional force to overcome -- this is the "tactile bump" shown as the "pressure point" on the graph. Without the bump in the stem, you would have a perfectly linear force-displacement curve, such as found in the mx red switch. The "operating point" is the point at which the switch actuates. This occurs at a displacement of about 2 mm, which is half of the total travel of 4 mm from the starting point until bottoming out. You do not feel the actuation in a Cherry mx switch, but it does occur at about mid-travel, and it occurs at about 45 cN ("grams") -- this is the actuation force. Notice that beyond the actuation point, the force increases linearly until reaching a maximum of about 60 cN (or "grams"). When you release the switch, the force decreases past the "reset point" and there is another tactile bump as you move past the bump in the stem.

Now look at the Topre curve and focus on the top actuation curve, which is for the 45g Topre. In this case, the force increases to a maximum of about 45g as the rubber dome is compressed like a spring. But past this peak, the rubber dome collapses (unlike the spring in a Cherry mx switch, which does not collapse but just continues to be compressed). The dome is collapsing as you go past the actuation point ("operating position") of about 40 cN ("grams"). Again, in contrast to the Cherry mx switch, the force is decreasing rather than increasing as you pass the actuation point. The force increases again upon bottoming out the switch.

Thus, comparing Cherry mx and Topre switches is rather like comparing apples to potatoes. Because of the differences in their force-displacement curves, the switches will feel very different, despite the fact that the actuation force can be the same -- in these cases, about 45 cN (grams).

To me, a Cherry mx brown feels a bit gritty because of the tactile bump grafted onto the switch stem, and it feels a bit heavier than a 45g Topre, because the force continues to increase after the actuation point. With the 45g Topre, the collapse of the dome provides a sense of release, something like the sensation of pressing a weighted piano key. Overall, I find the key action of a Torpe switch smoother and more satisfying that any Cherry mx switch.

« Last Edit: Mon, 24 November 2014, 11:53:47 by Hypersphere »

Offline Ngt

  • * Elevated Elder
  • Posts: 2346
  • Location: Switzerland
Re: No Topre switch stiff enough?
« Reply #31 on: Mon, 24 November 2014, 16:23:07 »
The overall feel of a given switch depends on characteristics other than the actuation force.

For example, look at the force-displacement curves for a Cherry mx brown and Topre switches, including 45g:

(Attachment Link)
Cherry mx Brown 45 cN ("grams") actuation force

(Attachment Link)
Topre 30 and 45 cN ("grams") actuation force

In a Cherry mx brown switch, there is a stem that pushes down on a helical spring. The stem has a bump that requires additional force to overcome -- this is the "tactile bump" shown as the "pressure point" on the graph. Without the bump in the stem, you would have a perfectly linear force-displacement curve, such as found in the mx red switch. The "operating point" is the point at which the switch actuates. This occurs at a displacement of about 2 mm, which is half of the total travel of 4 mm from the starting point until bottoming out. You do not feel the actuation in a Cherry mx switch, but it does occur at about mid-travel, and it occurs at about 45 cN ("grams") -- this is the actuation force. Notice that beyond the actuation point, the force increases linearly until reaching a maximum of about 60 cN (or "grams"). When you release the switch, the force decreases past the "reset point" and there is another tactile bump as you move past the bump in the stem.

Now look at the Topre curve and focus on the top actuation curve, which is for the 45g Topre. In this case, the force increases to a maximum of about 45g as the rubber dome is compressed like a spring. But past this peak, the rubber dome collapses (unlike the spring in a Cherry mx switch, which does not collapse but just continues to be compressed). The dome is collapsing as you go past the actuation point ("operating position") of about 40 cN ("grams"). Again, in contrast to the Cherry mx switch, the force is decreasing rather than increasing as you pass the actuation point. The force increases again upon bottoming out the switch.

Thus, comparing Cherry mx and Topre switches is rather like comparing apples to potatoes. Because of the differences in their force-displacement curves, the switches will feel very different, despite the fact that the actuation force can be the same -- in these cases, about 45 cN (grams).

To me, a Cherry mx brown feels a bit gritty because of the tactile bump grafted onto the switch stem, and it feels a bit heavier than a 45g Topre, because the force continues to increase after the actuation point. With the 45g Topre, the collapse of the dome provides a sense of release, something like the sensation of pressing a weighted piano key. Overall, I find the key action of a Torpe switch smoother and more satisfying that any Cherry mx switch.


Thank you for the lesson! I learned something. It was funny to press as slowly as possible my MX Brown to feel what you were describing. But I got the message that you cannot guess it, you just have to try it.

Silenced Novatouch w/ Hack'd by Geeks

Sold: Ducky Zero Shine (Brown) | Poker 2 (Blue) | HHKB 55g Type-S