Author Topic: [IC] Rare IBM, Cool Switch, Awesome Keyboard [PM FOR PURCHASE][NEW CONTROLLER] (Read 45982 times)

Tarzan · « **Reply #50 on:** Fri, 10 January 2014, 14:33:13 »

Quote from: pasph on Fri, 10 January 2014, 14:03:22

There's somewhere modding instructions?

It looks like Soarer made one work by hardwiring a Teensy in place of the PCB controller chip.

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=52888.msg1178183#msg1178183

Page is a bit unclear, a lot of steps are just described briefly, but I'm going to take mine apart this weekend and see if I can follow along.

dorkvader · « **Reply #51 on:** Sun, 12 January 2014, 17:37:39 »

You can get the hardware wired up the same based just on the picture there, but you'll need to get some code to run on it. I think soarer is from the UK, and it's kind of late there, or I'd ask him about it.

Depending on the protocol used, it might be better / easier to just wire up an adapter, but I dont have a Logic analyzer or anything useful to be able to determine that.

mr_a500 · « **Reply #52 on:** Mon, 13 January 2014, 18:05:12 »

Quote from: TacticalStache on Thu, 09 January 2014, 20:51:46

It's pingy as balls

I'll try and take it apart and do a foam mod this weekend if I'm not too occupied with my typewriter

And post a video

I didn't know what you were talking about when you said "pingy as balls", but I just got mine today and I certainly noticed the ping. (...though I don't know who has balls that sound like that)

I actually find it quite annoying. I've got Model F keyboards, Model M, beam spring, even another ALPS keyboard with an identical switch, but none of them have the ping this thing does. I'm going to have to do something about that.

Does anybody notice a horrible smell coming from these keyboards? Mine smells like a combination of burnt rubber and cat piss. I hope the smell goes away soon. It reminds me of an Amiga 1000 keyboard I got free years ago because somebody's cat pissed on it.

Photoelectric · « **Reply #53 on:** Mon, 13 January 2014, 18:10:12 »

Mine should be arriving very soon. I'll definitely play around with silencing options--laying down some foam will be the first step and thinking of how to fill less-accessible cavities is on the list after that. I'll have to see what the most prominent contributing factors to the reverberation are first.

mr_a500 · « **Reply #54 on:** Mon, 13 January 2014, 18:10:41 »

About keycap swaps - the TRS-80 Model III keys fit on this keyboard (same ALPS switch), but there aren't enough keys to make it useful:

(as seen on Deskthority)

I also have a version of the TI-99/4a with "T" shaped ALPS, but the "T" is thinner and smaller - so those keycaps won't fit.

Photoelectric · « **Reply #55 on:** Mon, 13 January 2014, 18:13:19 »

That's pretty cool

I'd actually love to swap my Japanese Shift and Caps Lock with Chinese versions for icons, but dunno if anyone would consider that. It's odd to have some legends as symbols / English and others be Asian words.

mr_a500 · « **Reply #56 on:** Mon, 13 January 2014, 18:21:24 »

Yeah, I'd prefer the icons too. The mixture looks strange - especially if I wanted to keep the TRS-80 keycaps.

mr_a500 · « **Reply #57 on:** Mon, 13 January 2014, 20:36:44 »

maxmalkav · « **Reply #58 on:** Tue, 14 January 2014, 14:19:53 »

I'm unable to find the contact information of the seller anywhere :S I have checked the OP thrice and no way

127001 · « **Reply #59 on:** Tue, 14 January 2014, 14:21:15 »

Quote from: maxmalkav on Tue, 14 January 2014, 14:19:53

I'm unable to find the contact information of the seller anywhere :S I have checked the OP thrice and no way

Really? You read the whole thing?

maxmalkav · « **Reply #60 on:** Tue, 14 January 2014, 15:32:12 »

Ok, I will PM you

Soarer · « **Reply #61 on:** Tue, 14 January 2014, 19:48:04 »

Just posted a bit more info on modding these using my controller code here

Tarzan · « **Reply #62 on:** Tue, 14 January 2014, 20:08:08 »

Quote from: Soarer on Tue, 14 January 2014, 19:48:04

Just posted a bit more info on modding these using my controller code here

Thanks for that lovely diagram, huge help in figuring out the connection layout! I haven't had a chance to try out your converter code yet, this will be the first project I've done using that, I really appreciate all your guides!

mr_a500 · « **Reply #63 on:** Tue, 14 January 2014, 20:50:27 »

Quote from: Soarer on Tue, 14 January 2014, 19:48:04

Just posted a bit more info on modding these using my controller code here

Thanks very much for this information, Soarer.

Photoelectric · « **Reply #64 on:** Wed, 15 January 2014, 17:44:57 »

Mine has arrived! Photo overload inc. (This keyboard is so beautiful, I took a million photographs)

(And click here to load more:)

More

mr_a500 · « **Reply #65 on:** Wed, 15 January 2014, 17:52:15 »

Lovely photos!

Tarzan · « **Reply #66 on:** Wed, 15 January 2014, 17:52:30 »

These are indeed beautiful keyboards! I'm still hesitant to tear into the one I have to do the Teensy mod, which needs to be done if it's going to be functional. Anyone know when these were made?

Photoelectric · « **Reply #67 on:** Wed, 15 January 2014, 21:03:45 »

Just tried layering some shelf liner--didn't really help with the pingy ringing. Moreover, the tolerances between the final metal sheet and the case are very small, so I need to get some thinner liner (mine's quite thick, maybe around 2mm thick or more). Looks like it needs spring lubrication to dampen the ringing, or else even some additional dampening under the plate. By the time I get to fixing up a controller for it, I might desolder the switches--we'll see.

nubbinator · « **Reply #68 on:** Wed, 15 January 2014, 22:37:03 »

I folded and bought one. Now I'm wondering if I should get one of each flavor. Is there a side by side of the Japanese and Chinese?

Photoelectric · « **Reply #69 on:** Wed, 15 January 2014, 22:42:00 »

Yeah, check out the Deskthority links in the first post. There are photos of 4 varieties. Chinese and Japanese, as well as "000" and "00" varieties.

nubbinator · « **Reply #70 on:** Wed, 15 January 2014, 22:44:33 »

Quote from: Photoelectric on Wed, 15 January 2014, 22:42:00

Yeah, check out the Deskthority links in the first post. There are photos of 4 varieties. Chinese and Japanese, as well as "000" and "00" varieties.

I is blind. Thanks. I think I decided on the Chinese version. It's more appealing to me for some reason.

Photoelectric · « **Reply #71 on:** Sun, 19 January 2014, 19:05:36 »

Ok, I was trying to see if I can open the switches from the top, but then my cheapo plastic keycap puller broke (these caps are tough!), and the proprietary metal puller seems to not want to go under the caps to pull them up. I don't have any others

I was able to take off one cap to find that the Alps switches on this keyboard have two tabs on the left and right sides and I could shift them with a flat-head screwdriver. Are those tabs holding the switch top? If so, then perhaps the switch top can be opened to access the spring inside? My goal is to get some Victorinox Multitool Oil in there for some vibration dampening.

And now to get a new kecap puller...

Parak · « **Reply #72 on:** Sun, 19 January 2014, 19:33:20 »

Included keycap puller is for removal of transparent keycap tops. You want a regular wire keycap puller - the plastic ones are pretty bad. These switches cannot be opened when they're plate mounted as far as I am aware - see here.

Photoelectric · « **Reply #73 on:** Sun, 19 January 2014, 19:45:14 »

Thanks for that link. Looking at the internal arrangement of the switch, I can see now that it can't be opened without desoldering. I don't even think the plate-mounted part matters here. It's more that the central part of the switch is held down by the metal contact pins at the bottom.

minium · « **Reply #74 on:** Mon, 20 January 2014, 01:32:11 »

Quote from: Photoelectric on Wed, 15 January 2014, 17:44:57

Mine has arrived! Photo overload inc. (This keyboard is so beautiful, I took a million photographs)

(Attachment Link)

(Attachment Link)

(Attachment Link)

(Attachment Link)

(Attachment Link)

(And click here to load more:)
More
(Attachment Link)

(Attachment Link)

(Attachment Link)

(Attachment Link)

(Attachment Link) (Attachment Link)

For me, it was the smell. I got the other variant. The noise of typing reminded me of my Mac 512k, but it's been a few years ;-)

mr_a500 · « **Reply #75 on:** Mon, 20 January 2014, 11:29:00 »

Quote from: Parak on Sun, 19 January 2014, 19:33:20

Included keycap puller is for removal of transparent keycap tops. You want a regular wire keycap puller - the plastic ones are pretty bad.

I found that supplied keycap puller to be quite useful - not just for the tops, but for whole keycaps. I even used it on other keyboards. It's a bit awkward getting the first one off - must tilt sideways to get the "nubs" beneath the keycap - but after the first keycap is off, there's space to move and it's easy.

My regular keycap puller is a PC slot cover.

Tarzan · « **Reply #76 on:** Mon, 20 January 2014, 20:57:37 »

Well, I've managed to get the keyboard working over USB, sort of... I followed Soarer's modification page, but not having a spare processor socket, I soldered the Teensy directly to the PCB using pins and wiring.

Then I bashed my way through loading Soarer's Converter code, and after much trial and error managed to load the 6112884.sc configuration file created for this keyboard. It does work, after a fashion; i.e., pressing most keys returns some result. Just not the one the key is labeled with.

Not sure if my wiring is at fault, bad solder job, or if I missed a step in the code. I'll try to troubleshoot the issues tomorrow, my error rate gets pretty high the later I try to work.

Soarer · « **Reply #77 on:** Mon, 20 January 2014, 21:46:29 »

Yeah, you've got the 4 wires for the muxstrobe wrong

You could either redo those wires or swap lines around in the config to fix it. The 4-bit binary code for the muxstrobe is reversed, so some lines should be correct already (0, 6, 9 and 15), while others need swapping in pairs (1 and 8, 2 and 4, 3 and 12, 5 and 10, 7 and 14, 11 and 13).

Tarzan · « **Reply #78 on:** Tue, 21 January 2014, 05:24:14 »

Quote from: Soarer on Mon, 20 January 2014, 21:46:29

Yeah, you've got the 4 wires for the muxstrobe wrong You could either redo those wires or swap lines around in the config to fix it. The 4-bit binary code for the muxstrobe is reversed, so some lines should be correct already (0, 6, 9 and 15), while others need swapping in pairs (1 and 8, 2 and 4, 3 and 12, 5 and 10, 7 and 14, 11 and 13).

Oh, I see what I did! I thought my wiring was a bit, er, symmetrical!

)

Let me open it up and re-do those four wires, give it another test. If I'm understanding your picture and matching diagram, the wires on the top left, reading L-to-R, should map to; VCC - F7 - F6 - F5 - F4. I got VCC right, but reversed the order for the remaining four.

Thanks for the feedback!

Soarer · « **Reply #79 on:** Tue, 21 January 2014, 05:51:11 »

Yes, that's right. But since those wires might not be long enough now, it might be easier to change the config!

Tarzan · « **Reply #80 on:** Tue, 21 January 2014, 06:12:41 »

Quote from: Soarer on Tue, 21 January 2014, 05:51:11

Yes, that's right. But since those wires might not be long enough now, it might be easier to change the config!

No worries, I've got lots of wire. :-) And... I'm typing this post on the keyboard now, just have to button up the case. (I always wanted to say that!)

Thanks so much for all your help!

This is the first keyboard I've successfully managed to make work via software, all my other efforts bogged down at that penultimate step. I really appreciate all your step-by-step guides, gives me confidence I can try this again!

Soarer · « **Reply #81 on:** Tue, 21 January 2014, 06:41:12 »

Yay!

Actually, I was worried more about the soldering at the Teensy end, since it's pinned down, but you managed it!

Soarer · « **Reply #82 on:** Tue, 21 January 2014, 06:47:34 »

The Pro Micro also has a decent pin arrangement for use as a replacement CPU for these, using PD1 down to PB5 for the sense pins. Obviously the flying leads would be arranged slightly differently, but still using PF4 to PF7.

[IC] Rare IBM, Cool Switch, Awesome Keyboard [PM FOR PURCHASE][NEW CONTROLLER]

Tarzan · « **Reply #83 on:** Tue, 21 January 2014, 07:25:52 »

One tip for anyone using pins or similar to affix the Teensy: try to find a cable with the smallest possible mini-USB connector. There are a couple of blue resistors (?) right near the USB socket on the Teensy when it's in place on the PCB that make it difficult to insert and remove the cable. I had good luck using the cable that came with a Keycool keyboard.

Soarer · « **Reply #84 on:** Tue, 21 January 2014, 07:32:00 »

That's true, even with a socket that still ended up a bit tight there. Using longer pins as stilts should help - I think there's plenty of space above the CPU.

dorkvader · « **Reply #85 on:** Thu, 23 January 2014, 21:47:16 »

Quote from: mr_a500 on Mon, 13 January 2014, 20:36:44

I think this layout is better. I just have to print off some legends for those blank keys.

(Attachment Link)

I see your TRS-80 III and raise you one heathkit/zenith

Once my DIP sockets arrive, you can expect another success story from me. As to the size of USB cables, I plan to just make one, and unhoused USB connectors are really small.

Pac Caps · « **Reply #86 on:** Thu, 23 January 2014, 22:15:08 »

How do these linear vintage alps feel? How do they feel compared to blacks, vintage blacks, and hall effect linears? Also are there tactile boards of this kind?

And if I buy a board, how easy is it to program it to work with USB?

nubbinator · « **Reply #87 on:** Fri, 24 January 2014, 09:05:32 »

I just got mine the other day. It's a nice feeling board with some heft to it, but damn, I forgot how short 3.5mm is. You bottom out with these before you even realize it.

mr_a500 · « **Reply #88 on:** Fri, 24 January 2014, 10:06:11 »

Quote from: dorkvader on Thu, 23 January 2014, 21:47:16

I see your TRS-80 III and raise you one heathkit/zenith
(Attachment Link)

Once my DIP sockets arrive, you can expect another success story from me. As to the size of USB cables, I plan to just make one, and unhoused USB connectors are really small.

Nice. I see your Heathkit has most of the keys you need. Even though those match the original dark beige better, I'd prefer black or dark brown. I've never liked beige. (reminds me of the awful 90's)

I see you also have brown "Help" and "Esc". Ooh... I want those.

dorkvader · « **Reply #89 on:** Sat, 25 January 2014, 00:59:31 »

Got mine working as well, thanks very much to a sleepy soarer in IRC.

One thing about the grey zenith/heath keycaps is that they are not bit paired, whereas the IBM ones are.

ebacho · « **Reply #90 on:** Sat, 25 January 2014, 01:13:41 »

Quote from: Pac Caps on Thu, 23 January 2014, 22:15:08

How do these linear vintage alps feel? How do they feel compared to blacks, vintage blacks, and hall effect linears? Also are there tactile boards of this kind?

And if I buy a board, how easy is it to program it to work with USB?

No idea about hall effect, but they're definitely lighter than stock blacks/vintage blacks. They're more closer to reds/62g blacks maybe, with a shorter travel. It's very pingy, as people have pointed out.

You can find converter info in the previous few posts; I haven't gotten mine working yet but that's only because I keep putting off buying another teensy.

Photoelectric · « **Reply #91 on:** Fri, 31 January 2014, 16:56:53 »

I vote for a new slogan: "If you think you know what ping is--you don't--until you get this keyboard. It pings before you even begin typing!"

mr_a500 · « **Reply #92 on:** Sat, 01 February 2014, 09:45:06 »

I just looked at it as I walked by and I could swear I heard a ping.

xavierblak · « **Reply #93 on:** Fri, 20 June 2014, 11:09:47 »

Sorry for bumping an old thread.

I missed this thread when it was active. Does anyone know if these boards are still available? I sent a PM but didn't get a response.

Parak · « **Reply #94 on:** Fri, 20 June 2014, 11:24:39 »

I know there's a few floading around here and deskthority in particular. THink someone had one for sale on DT as recent as last week or something.

Photoelectric · « **Reply #95 on:** Fri, 20 June 2014, 12:21:13 »

Quote from: xavierblak on Fri, 20 June 2014, 11:09:47

Sorry for bumping an old thread.

I missed this thread when it was active. Does anyone know if these boards are still available? I sent a PM but didn't get a response.

You've got a PM

mastermachetier · « **Reply #96 on:** Tue, 09 February 2016, 21:55:06 »

Are there still any of these keyboards around ?

HPE1000 · « **Reply #97 on:** Tue, 09 February 2016, 22:19:38 »

So... I've been thinking recently, does anyone think it is possible to chop this to a 60% size? I am not sure how that would work out as far as the PCB. I obviously dont want to chop up my only one to test.

Quote from: mastermachetier on Tue, 09 February 2016, 21:55:06

Are there still any of these keyboards around ?

Yeah

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NIB-IBM-Japanese-Lettering-Typing-Computer-102-Keyboard-Letter-Type-6112884-/380994210683?hash=item58b5064b7b:g:V~wAAOSwd4tUDzoy
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NIB-IBM-Chinese-Lettering-Typing-Computer-102-Keyboard-Letter-Type-Model-6113442-/381019318430?hash=item58b685689e:g:oQYAAOSwPe1UDyRq

mastermachetier · « **Reply #98 on:** Tue, 09 February 2016, 22:29:22 »

Quote from: HPE1000 on Tue, 09 February 2016, 22:19:38

So... I've been thinking recently, does anyone think it is possible to chop this to a 60% size? I am not sure how that would work out as far as the PCB. I obviously dont want to chop up my only one to test.

Quote from: mastermachetier on Tue, 09 February 2016, 21:55:06
Are there still any of these keyboards around ?
Yeah

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NIB-IBM-Japanese-Lettering-Typing-Computer-102-Keyboard-Letter-Type-6112884-/380994210683?hash=item58b5064b7b:g:V~wAAOSwd4tUDzoy
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NIB-IBM-Chinese-Lettering-Typing-Computer-102-Keyboard-Letter-Type-Model-6113442-/381019318430?hash=item58b685689e:g:oQYAAOSwPe1UDyRq

thanks!

Dernubenfrieken · « **Reply #99 on:** Wed, 10 February 2016, 06:24:16 »

Quote from: HPE1000 on Tue, 09 February 2016, 22:19:38

So... I've been thinking recently, does anyone think it is possible to chop this to a 60% size? I am not sure how that would work out as far as the PCB. I obviously dont want to chop up my only one to test.

It definitely is possible, but you have to scrap the PCB and hand wire. I'm working on one right now, I'll post a write up when I'm done.

News:

Author Topic: [IC] Rare IBM, Cool Switch, Awesome Keyboard [PM FOR PURCHASE][NEW CONTROLLER] (Read 45982 times)