Model M key cap font?

[wumpyr]

What font did IBM use for the key cap text?

[bhtooefr]

I'm gonna guess Helvetica? Just a shot.

[cchan]

The lettering on my M4 (same as my M fontwise) looks very Helvetical to my untrained eye. I think it fits this keyboard. But I think Univers Condensed Oblique is a much prettier font.

[bhtooefr]

LOL, Identifont thinks it's FF Cutout, which isn't even close to right.

(I'm gonna go through the questions again, maybe I answered something wrong.)

[ozar]

What font did IBM use for the key cap text?

Maybe someone at IBM or Unicomp can tell you for certain which font was used.

[rnak92a]

Ripster,

Jim Owens (ex. 202) is who you'll want to talk with.  He and I have had 45-minute discussions about the model M.  

Cheers,
~rn

[ozar]

I'm calling Unicomp tomorrow anyway.

Ripster, if you do talk to Jim O. tomorrow, would you mind asking him if their current building was one of the old IBM keyboard plants?

[iMav]

Speaking of Unicomp.  Man, would it be nice to see them, just once, make some actual improvement to the Model M.  Specifically, address the Achilles' heel of the Model M, those darned plastic rivets.  

I smile when people say the M's are indestructible...Look at one the wrong way and it will pop a few of those plastic rivets.  Those frame assemblies really need to be redesigned.

[ozar]

Hey, thanks!  That's some interesting stuff and answers lots of questions that I've been wondering about for a while.

Hope they didn't have to shut down all operations during that 30 minutes.  :lol:

[itlnstln]

I could live with no more minis being produced

LOL. Yeah, that would be a waste, now, wouldn't it?

[wellington1869]

Had an interesting coversation with Chuck ...
Chuck says hello to Geekhack! - he appreciates the orders coming in from our referrals.

- Ripster

ya, chuck is a hero.

but did you tell him unicomp needs to stop thinking of itself as a re-assembly plant and start thinking about original design and engineering for a change? Someone should tell him...

also, if they have mini cases and parts but not the electronics, i fail to see why they couldnt slice the numpad off of the customizer and engineer that to fit into the minis.  Imagine that -- a USB mini.  Ya, and that wouldnt sell at least as well as the customizers? Come on.

They need to start doing the slightest bit of original engineering if they want to survive.

[Manyak]

My bet would be that not only they ran out of old logic boards, but it would also be impossible to order new ones, because it has elements which are no longer produced. So they would have to design a new pcb. And you would have to order a number of them in any case, a big investment for a small company. Just guesses though.

The only element not being produced on it is the actual controller chip, the rest is all standard stuff (caps and resistors and what not). But even so, a design for a new controller chip for something this simple - especially since they already have the designs for the standard controllers - can be done in a single workday.

[ch_123]

The mini has special logic to integrate and toggle to the numpad, and probably a custom size to make it fit.

While the numpad emulator is a nice touch, I couldn't imagine I'd use it much if I had one of them. Do any Space Saver owners around here make much use of them?

[D-EJ915]

I've never once used the numpad function on my laptops.  I guess if you use it enough you will get used to it but the totally different feel throws me off, I hate it and would rather not have it (like on the hhkb).

[wellington1869]

I dont mind if they simply make a separate numpad and ditch the integrated one.

And it would actually be nice to see a buckling spring numpad. Yet another thing unicomp could relatively easily produce if they but had the will to innovate.

I mean really, while I love unicomp and the guys who work there, and while I apprecaite they're carrying forward ibm's keyboard legacy, in many important ways I'm convinced that they're a very "lazy" company.  If/when they go under, it wouldnt suprise me one bit, and I would put most of the blame on them for it.

[rnak92a]

Ripster,

Did you ask Chuck to custom imprint the left shift key of the set you ordered to read Smite?

~rn

[wellington1869]

  I have fond memories of that shade of green glowing on the screen.

- Ripster

me too! I really miss it actually It was so bright and fluid. Been trying to replicate it but apparently very few video card drivers allow you to play with RGB. Would love to have just monochrome shades of green on my monitor.  Any ideas how to do it? I even looked around to see if I could install a special effects box on the vga-out cable of my desktop, didnt find anything tho.

(incidentally I do use darkroom on my pc and writeroom on my mac, both for simple text editing, but I'm trying to get the whole OS in just monochrome shades of green, not just limited to a text editor).

[wellington1869]

ripster, does this pic bring back memories too?  I remember thumbing thru these manuals so intensely when I got my first ibm computer





This looks like a nice retro computing site, by the way: http://www.vintage-computer.com/ibm_pc.shtml

[Manyak]

me too! I really miss it actually It was so bright and fluid. Been trying to replicate it but apparently very few video card drivers allow you to play with RGB. Would love to have just monochrome shades of green on my monitor.  Any ideas how to do it? I even looked around to see if I could install a special effects box on the vga-out cable of my desktop, didnt find anything tho.

Its actually a pretty easy hack....take a VGA cable and strip off the rubber at some point, and you should see three thick red blue and green coax cables in the center of it. Cut the red and blue ones. Then to get the shades you like adjust the gamma on your card (from nVidia control panel or CCC, whichever you have).


Check here to see the wires I'm talking about.


Then in your registry, go to: HKEY_CURRENT_CONFIG\Display\Settings

There, you'll see BitsPerPixel, which is probably 32 right now. Change that to 1 - making everything either white or black. But since you cut the red and blue cables, that makes it green or black.

Edit: Crap, they moved the registry key, gimme a sec to find it again.



Talk about nostalgia....lol

[wellington1869]

thanks manyak! I'm really tempted to try this out... i'm suprised no one has done this yet, since there are so many folks out there with nostalgia for the green

I wonder if it also could be done with a vga to rca splitter, does that split the colors into red green blue?  then only reconnect the green one and convert it back to vga?

[Manyak]

thanks manyak! I'm really tempted to try this out... i'm suprised no one has done this yet, since there are so many folks out there with nostalgia for the green

I wonder if it also could be done with a vga to rca splitter, does that split the colors into red green blue?  then only reconnect the green one and convert it back to vga?

RCA? Nah, that puts them all together into one cable, so you'd need a line filter. Which is a lot more complicated lol.

But I can't seem to find the registry key in vista to force monochrome, gimme a while to find it.

[D-EJ915]

you'd need a video card that outputs the sync signal on the green channel to be able to do that or get a sync combiner ( they do exist but are $100+ )

OR

get a monochrome monitor: http://www.miraclebusiness.com/mt208.htm

I've got the 9" white one and it kicks ass lol, I have pics in the gallery on my website

[Manyak]

you'd need a video card that outputs the sync signal on the green channel to be able to do that or get a sync combiner ( they do exist but are $100+ )

OR

get a monochrome monitor: http://www.miraclebusiness.com/mt208.htm

I've got the 9" white one and it kicks ass lol, I have pics in the gallery on my website

No you don't, VGA and DVI connectors have separate h-sync and v-sync wires, completely independent of the RGB cables.

The only PCs that do sync-on-green are the Sun systems with the DB13W3 connectors.

[wellington1869]

you'd need a video card that outputs the sync signal on the green channel to be able to do that or get a sync combiner ( they do exist but are $100+ )

OR

get a monochrome monitor: http://www.miraclebusiness.com/mt208.htm

I've got the 9" white one and it kicks ass lol, I have pics in the gallery on my website

wow, i didnt know they made SVGA monochrome monitors!  Do you know if they make that in an LCD model?

Also, i checked out your site but didnt find pics of the monochrome display - do you have any? Would love to see it in action.

Which 9" white one do you mean? (update: never mind, i see it: http://www.miraclebusiness.com/mono.htm)

[wellington1869]

although, if its possible to rig up a vga cable, I'd prefer that... I think then i'd be able to use my external 19" lcd monitor instead - less electricity and bigger screen.

[wellington1869]

or just watch the movie, "helvetica", on netflix. Its actually amazingly fascinating.
http://www.netflix.com/Movie/Helvetica/70076125?lnkce=seRtLn&trkid=222336&lnkctr=srchrd-sr&strkid=238161458_0_0

[Hak Foo]

No you don't, VGA and DVI connectors have separate h-sync and v-sync wires, completely independent of the RGB cables.

The only PCs that do sync-on-green are the Sun systems with the DB13W3 connectors.

I think there's a firm that all they do is sell synch-on-green video cards for people who own nice workstation-class CRT monitors that can't speak to normal PCs.

I wonder if you couldn't do a circuit that "averaged" the voltages over the red, green, and blue pins, and output the result over green.

I have a ca. 1982 composite amber NEC monitor that I keep for testing 8-bit home computers; once I hooked it to the TV-out plug of a Radeon 7000 for the lulz.

[Manyak]

I think there's a firm that all they do is sell synch-on-green video cards for people who own nice workstation-class CRT monitors that can't speak to normal PCs.

I wonder if you couldn't do a circuit that "averaged" the voltages over the red, green, and blue pins, and output the result over green.

I have a ca. 1982 composite amber NEC monitor that I keep for testing 8-bit home computers; once I hooked it to the TV-out plug of a Radeon 7000 for the lulz.

Here you go, dug this up for you
http://www.raphnet.net/electronique/sync-on-green/sync-on-green_en.php

I'll call up my pops tomorrow (electrical engineer) and ask him about turning RGB into monochrome since apparently you guys really wanna know how lol. From what I know I don't think its that hard, maybe something like putting a resistor on each wire right before you twist them together. But I'm not completely sure. Either way we'll find out tomorrow.

[wellington1869]

thanks

[D-EJ915]

you still need to stick the sync into the signal somewhere though, it's combined in composite and RF signals (hence my earlier post)

[Manyak]

you still need to stick the sync into the signal somewhere though, it's combined in composite and RF signals (hence my earlier post)

The site I linked to explains the circuits to do that!