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Offline xsphat

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« on: Mon, 16 February 2009, 16:53:38 »
So I received my Mac Modular keyboard last Friday and it caused my processors to run at really fast speeds. I like the keyboard a lot but not enough to burn out my computer.

I called DSI and got Karl on the line. I told him about the problem. I told him I'd rather have the problem fixed than get my money back. He said this is a known issue and the next crop of these keyboards will not have this problem. They are expected to be here next week.

So they are sending me out a new keyboard with a call tag for shipping the first one back to them.

So for having good customer service and for listening to customers' input, DSI rules.
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Offline Eclairz

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« Reply #1 on: Mon, 16 February 2009, 17:15:24 »
overclock your system with a new keyboard :-D
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Offline wellington1869

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« Reply #2 on: Mon, 16 February 2009, 17:43:48 »
wow - a company that issues fixes for known problems. Imagine that :)
(hope you're listening, matias and metadot!)
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Offline xsphat

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« Reply #3 on: Mon, 16 February 2009, 17:50:08 »
Quote from: wellington1869;21880
wow - a company that issues fixes for known problems. Imagine that :)
(hope you're listening, matias and metadot!)


I know. Wait, this is how it's supposed to be, isn't it?
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Offline Chloe

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« Reply #4 on: Tue, 17 February 2009, 00:47:30 »
That's great. :)
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Offline xsphat

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« Reply #5 on: Tue, 17 February 2009, 02:03:54 »
Thanks Chloe.

I really like having a clicky keyboard around and quite frankly there aren't any others I'm interested in right now.
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Offline andb

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« Reply #6 on: Tue, 17 February 2009, 02:50:55 »
Quote from: xsphat;21878
So I received my Mac Modular keyboard last Friday and it caused my processors to run at really fast speeds. I like the keyboard a lot but not enough to burn out my computer.

Is it April already? How can a keyboard cause a computer to load the processor? Wow, that is a catastrophic fail if I ever heard of one. Ok, driver flaws I could understand, but any amount of flooding the usb port with data shouldn't overload an OS it seems.

So what is the full story behind this?
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Offline xsphat

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« Reply #7 on: Tue, 17 February 2009, 02:55:29 »
Quote from: andb;21921
So what is the full story behind this?

Original post on this problem with link to Apple support page.

This is a known issue, just one I didn't know about.

EDIT: When the keyboard is plugged in, an application called UserEventAgent goes crazy. It takes up 99% of processor power. Glitch in the Matrix.
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Offline lowpoly

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« Reply #8 on: Tue, 17 February 2009, 03:05:52 »
Good work, DSI.

Quote from: wellington1869;21880
wow - a company that issues fixes for known problems. Imagine that :)
(hope you're listening, matias and metadot!)

What was the problem with Matias? Was it ghosting? Which model was affected?
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Miniguru thread at GH // The Apple M0110 Today

Offline wellington1869

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« Reply #9 on: Tue, 17 February 2009, 03:07:35 »
Quote from: lowpoly;21924
Good work, DSI.


What was the problem with Matias? Was it ghosting? Which model was affected?


tp2, severe ghosting... matias 'fix' was to tell people to turn on sticky keys on macs. see my review page :)
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Offline lowpoly

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« Reply #10 on: Tue, 17 February 2009, 03:13:29 »
Ah, thanks. Some days ago someone posted a pic of the tp2 controller (I think?) with a comment that it needed replacement. That confused me. I think this is rather a switch pcb layout problem. A different controller can make switch pcb layout easier though. Correct me if I'm wrong.
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Miniguru thread at GH // The Apple M0110 Today

Offline wellington1869

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« Reply #11 on: Tue, 17 February 2009, 03:21:25 »
Quote from: lowpoly;21927
Ah, thanks. Some days ago someone posted a pic of the tp2 controller (I think?) with a comment that it needed replacement. That confused me. I think this is rather a switch pcb layout problem. A different controller can make switch pcb layout easier though. Correct me if I'm wrong.


well my 'personal fix' is to unsolder the real-simplified alps switches in the tp2 and solder them into my dell at101w, lol :)
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Offline lowpoly

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« Reply #12 on: Tue, 17 February 2009, 03:24:52 »
I guess that also means they're not going to exchange/repair the faulty boards?
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Offline xsphat

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« Reply #13 on: Tue, 17 February 2009, 03:25:51 »
When the keyboard is plugged in, an application called UserEventAgent goes crazy. It takes up 99% of processor power. Glitch in the Matrix.
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Offline wellington1869

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« Reply #14 on: Tue, 17 February 2009, 10:14:13 »
Quote from: lowpoly;21929
I guess that also means they're not going to exchange/repair the faulty boards?


well from googling around on this issue I have come across some reports where people called up matias and fought with them (and had to pay return shipping!) in order to get an exchange (for the tp2 mark II, which no longer uses real-simplifieds, from what I gather).

So I would have attempted that, except the later tp2 models (and the upcoming tp3) dropped the real-simplified alps in favor of white strongmans (same as the XM switch, I believe). (The tp1 had bigfoots).

So basically the only board out there (relatively easy to find) with real-simplifieds, is the ghosting tp2 :) lol.

...and I really  like those real-simplifieds ;)  So I decided to keep it and harvest its switches...
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Offline itlnstln

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« Reply #15 on: Tue, 17 February 2009, 10:16:55 »
Quote
I decided to keep it and harvest its switches...


That sounds kinda creepy like your harvesting brains and other organs.
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Offline wellington1869

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« Reply #16 on: Tue, 17 February 2009, 10:19:41 »
Quote from: itlnstln;21957
That sounds kinda creepy like your harvesting brains and other organs.


I'll be sure to practice my mad scientist cackle as I pull the switches out ;)  

isnt there a People for the Ethical Treatment of Keyboards (PETOK) group thats going to protest?
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Offline itlnstln

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« Reply #17 on: Tue, 17 February 2009, 10:24:28 »
Quote
isnt there a People for the Ethical Treatment of Keyboards (PETOK) group thats going to protest?


Yeah, they'll spray grease on your springs.
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Offline wellington1869

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« Reply #18 on: Tue, 17 February 2009, 10:25:49 »
Quote from: itlnstln;21961
Yeah, they'll spray grease on your springs.


:) They'll cover me in plasti-dip.  "How's it feel on you, you monster!!"
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Offline zwmalone

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« Reply #19 on: Tue, 17 February 2009, 15:38:55 »
Quote from: wellington1869;21954
(The tp1 had bigfoots).


Are you sure about that?  IIRC, they stopped making bigfoots at more than ten years ago...
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Can't get enough of them ALPS

Offline itlnstln

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« Reply #20 on: Tue, 17 February 2009, 15:42:36 »
I can't recall where I read it, but Mattias was able to get about 1 million switches from Alps before they completely shut down switch manufacturing.
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Offline zwmalone

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« Reply #21 on: Tue, 17 February 2009, 16:04:03 »
Quote from: itlnstln;21985
I can't recall where I read it, but Mattias was able to get about 1 million switches from Alps before they completely shut down switch manufacturing.


They must have been fearing the worst not even thinking someone else would step in and manufacture simplified type switches.

Speaking of simplified switches didn't ALPS themselves make simplified (simp. type 1 on sandy's site) for a time before quitting the switch game altogether?  Are you sure the 1 million switches they got weren't real simplified?
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Can't get enough of them ALPS

Offline itlnstln

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« Reply #22 on: Tue, 17 February 2009, 16:11:16 »
Quote
They must have been fearing the worst not even thinking someone else would step in and manufacture simplified type switches.


That's exactly right.

Quote
Speaking of simplified switches didn't ALPS themselves make simplified (simp. type 1 on sandy's site) for a time before quitting the switch game altogether? Are you sure the 1 million switches they got weren't real simplified?


It depends on how you define "Bigfoot."  I always took it to mean any Alps switch in this class including complex, simplified, real, fake, click, non-clicky, whatever: http://park16.wakwak.com/~ex4/kb/tech_alps_bigfoot.htm
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Offline zwmalone

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« Reply #23 on: Tue, 17 February 2009, 16:18:08 »
I've always taken it to mean what sandy described it as, IE: shorthand for  having the complicated switching mechanism regardless of stem color, like this:

See here for more info: http://sandy55.fc2web.com/keyboard/alps_sw2.html
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Can't get enough of them ALPS

Offline lowpoly

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« Reply #24 on: Tue, 17 February 2009, 16:30:35 »
Quote
It depends on how you define "Bigfoot."

Bigfoot is the nickname of the Dell AT keyboard. Somehow that nickname transferred to the switch, which is Alps complicated. Sandy wasn't too fond of that IIRC, probably because the switch has been used in other keyboards as well.
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Offline Chloe

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« Reply #25 on: Tue, 17 February 2009, 22:12:45 »
I'm not fond of the term either for the same reason, but Qwerters Clinic ALPS classification has been around longer and is a well known site. Simplified and fake are noted in Bigfoot introduction:
http://park16.wakwak.com/~ex4/kb/tech_alps_bigfoot.htm

I would prefer using part numbers such as SKCM/SKLM but it becomes more complicated when you consider the varieties documented.
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Offline Chloe

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« Reply #26 on: Tue, 17 February 2009, 22:14:40 »
Quote from: zwmalone;21984
Are you sure about that?  IIRC, they stopped making bigfoots at more than ten years ago...


I thought that too based on what I have read on other forums, but they were still selling them in 1999. These could have a simplified mechanism. It's a shame the datasheets were not archived:
http://web.archive.org/web/19990204025054/www.alps.co.jp/densok/idx/a545431j.htm
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Offline Chloe

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« Reply #27 on: Tue, 17 February 2009, 22:18:08 »
Quote from: itlnstln;21985
I can't recall where I read it, but Mattias was able to get about 1 million switches from Alps before they completely shut down switch manufacturing.

http://db.tidbits.com/article/7607

It would be nice to confirm the switching mechanism. I think the Tactile Pro was released in 2004 based on earliest archives of the site. It is strange that the article cites Alps, by 2004 joint venture had long ended and Forward Electronics were still selling switches. It could be a marketing ploy to sell more keyboards. Alps were not making keyboard switches in 2003.

It is possible due to the huge fraud in 1999 that Alps decided to end production of their keyboard switches. It is hard to prove since the website was redesigned between 2000 and 2002. SKCM/SKCL were available up until 1999.

Edit: SKCM/SKCL were available up until 2001:
http://web.archive.org/web/20010428090656/http://www4.alps.co.jp/cgi-bin/bunrui1.cgi?bunrui=softpush
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Offline xsphat

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« Reply #28 on: Tue, 17 February 2009, 23:45:26 »
Chloe, I have a friend who makes good money doing research from home for a financial magazine. You should look into that kind of job unless you already have a good one. I think you have have what it takes and then some.
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Offline Chloe

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« Reply #29 on: Wed, 18 February 2009, 04:54:06 »
Thanks xsphat. :)
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Offline itlnstln

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« Reply #30 on: Wed, 18 February 2009, 06:50:58 »
Quote from: Chloe;22004
http://db.tidbits.com/article/7607


That's the one.

Chloe - Switch Kitten and Google-Fu Master.
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Offline xsphat

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« Reply #31 on: Tue, 17 March 2009, 13:38:47 »
Still haven't heard anything from DSI on this replacement keyboard. I wonder if Karl was lying to me.
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Offline wellington1869

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« Reply #32 on: Tue, 17 March 2009, 13:59:23 »
Quote from: xsphat;24748
Still haven't heard anything from DSI on this replacement keyboard. I wonder if Karl was lying to me.


do you want to get your money back instead?
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Offline xsphat

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« Reply #33 on: Tue, 17 March 2009, 14:25:04 »
Quote from: wellington1869;24756
do you want to get your money back instead?


I think I'll give him another week.
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Offline xsphat

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« Reply #34 on: Wed, 18 March 2009, 16:51:55 »
Talked to Karl today, DSI made amends, but I still won't have a new 'board for a month or so. They are being forthcoming and fair, so no worries. They still rule.
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Offline xsphat

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« Reply #35 on: Thu, 16 April 2009, 23:53:40 »
It's been another month and still no word from DSI about my shiny brand new Mac Modular Paperweight. This is getting ridiculous.
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Offline FKSSR

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« Reply #36 on: Fri, 17 April 2009, 06:38:34 »
That is absurd.  I'm still waiting to hear something about a "PC Modular" keyboard, but I'm not sure I want to bother, at this point.
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Offline iMav

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« Reply #37 on: Fri, 17 April 2009, 07:34:23 »
How did you pay for the keyboard initially?  Perhaps it is time to file some sort of grievance?
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Offline FKSSR

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« Reply #38 on: Fri, 17 April 2009, 07:48:46 »
It is rather funny that this conversation is happening in a thread initially titled "DSI rules."

How long can you file a claim on a purchase?  I thought it was only up to 90 days after the purchase.
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Offline iMav

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« Reply #39 on: Fri, 17 April 2009, 08:01:27 »
xsphat, definitely let us know what DSI says when you give them a call.
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Offline mrbill

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« Reply #40 on: Fri, 17 April 2009, 10:32:56 »
I'm glad to have found this community of people who are as picky about their keyboards as I am.  At work, I'm known as "the guy who you can hear typing down the hall".

As for Matias Tactile Pro keyboards, I was rather annoyed to find out that my (original) Tactile Pro appeared to be a slightly-reworked Strong Man Enterprise Co. keyboard (with an almost-identical model on their website), and that the "We have the last batch of these switches!" was pure hype.

I owned two of them, but ended up selling them both.  I now have three AT101Ws (or as I call them, "slabs"), a couple of AEKIIs with iMates, two Unicomp Customizer 104s, one Unicomp Spacesaver, one Dell-logoed Model M, 2-3 IBM-logoed Model Ms (one needing a SDL cable), and my latest acquisition, a Scorpius M10 that I'm slowly falling in love with.  

However, my all-time favorite will remain the Model M and the Unicomp variants (104 keys is great because I can remap the Windows key to the Mac's Command key).
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Keyboards:
IBM Model Ms: 51G8572 (\'94, \'96), 1391401 (\'90), 1369050 (\'95, Dell), 1394946 (\'89 Industrial)
Unicomp Model Ms:  Customizer 104, SpaceSaver 104
Chicony: KB-5181, KB-5191
Cherry:  MX11800 (x2), G86-6241 "Ricercar SPOS"
Filco: FKBN87M/EB x2, Cherry Browns
Sold: Matias Tactile Pro 1.0 (x2), Kensington Studioboard Mechanical, Scorpius M10, AEK II (x2), Compaq 11900 (x2), IBM Model F (AT), Filco FKB104MC/EB
Available Free for Cost of Shipping: ABS M1, Solidtek KB-6600ABU, KeyTronic KB101Plus

Offline FKSSR

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« Reply #41 on: Fri, 17 April 2009, 10:38:09 »
Welcome to GeekHack!  Sounds like you have quite the collection and quite a bit of knowledge, already.  Thanks for sharing.
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Offline ozar

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« Reply #42 on: Fri, 17 April 2009, 10:53:54 »
Quote from: xsphat;86110
It's been another month and still no word from DSI about my shiny brand new Mac Modular Paperweight. This is getting ridiculous.

I must say, you've been far more patient that I could ever have been.  Hope it works out well, and sooner rather than later.  I dealt with DSI on an issue of my own a few weeks ago and they handled the entire matter quickly and without any issues.  Good luck on the outcome of this.
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Offline iMav

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« Reply #43 on: Fri, 17 April 2009, 10:56:39 »
I've never had any issues with DSI.  I purchased two blue Cherry-equipped SMK-88's from them when I was in Iraq a couple of years ago.  I still have one of them (the other was sold to a geekhack member last year).

My son now uses that remaining SMK-88 and makes sure he tells his friends how unique and awesome it is.  :)
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Offline xsphat

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« Reply #44 on: Thu, 23 April 2009, 02:10:54 »
I emailed Karl (finally) and he replied by the end of the day. He said the shipment of the updated Mac Modular keyboards is expected on May 6th and soon after that I will receive a tracking number. He's going to ship me the new keyboard with a call tag for free return shipping for the old one.

iMav said he's never had any trouble with DSI and I have to say neither have I. This whole thing was a stupid oversight or a simple mistake (and a perfect fail, BTW — a new Mac keyboard that doesn't work on new Macs), nothing more. DSI has done everything in their power to make me happy and has given me opportunities to get my money back. I chose to wait it out, and I am not miffed at them or anything. I just can't believe no one in such a Mac-centric company bothered to test these keyboards on an Intel Mac.

So soon I will be trading in my Mac Modular paperweight for a fixed Mac Modular Keyboard. And it's all right. What's two and a half months between friends?
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Offline xsphat

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« Reply #45 on: Fri, 15 May 2009, 11:21:09 »
Well, me brand new and working DSI MacModular keyboard came today — but it's black.



Oh well, I'm glad it works now, but black is ugly.
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Offline xsphat

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« Reply #46 on: Fri, 15 May 2009, 11:54:20 »
Yeah, return it so they can take another 3 1/2 months getting it back to me.

It's the blue Cherry model, BTW.
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Offline xsphat

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« Reply #47 on: Fri, 15 May 2009, 12:46:56 »
Yeah, I have to say I was surprised when I opened the box. But whatever, screw it. At least I have a working model.
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Offline MsKeyboard

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« Reply #48 on: Fri, 15 May 2009, 13:01:28 »
You could always try one of these

And they come in White!

Later.......Ms Keyboard
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Offline xsphat

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« Reply #49 on: Fri, 15 May 2009, 13:07:12 »
No. They have blacks, I should know — I already have one. I reviewed it here and didn't like it all that much, but my wife does. She has been using it nonstop for a couple or a few years now. God, I wonder what that's like ...
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