THE CHEAPEST usb adapter working with Model M's!

[cchan]

Five dollars and thirty-four cents shipped. I'm typing this post using my 1989 Model M connected through it right now.

Product URL: http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.8909

Now watch, I'll start a run on these and Dx will never have them back in stock when I want a second one. Lol.

[ozar]

Sounds like a good deal, especially considering the free shipping... thanks!

[cchan]

No problem. It also works with the M4, Cherry MX11800, and NMB RT6856TW. I tested the mouse part to work with my Logitech Marble Mouse and MX11800's trackball.

ETA: There are several DX forum posts that claim it doesn't work with ISO layout keyboards' extra key. I can't test this since all my keyboards are ANSI.

[bhtooefr]

The Model M actually is a combined ISO/ANSI layout, it's just that the ISO keys are hidden by the left shift and the enter keys.

To test compatibility, grab a ballpoint pen refill or something of similar diameter, pop off the left shift key, and stick the refill in the right side hole (the one that doesn't have a spring mechanism.) If you get backslashes, you've got a compatible adapter. If you don't, you don't.

[skriefal]

Be prepared to wait a long time to receive these from Dealextreme.  I've placed a few orders with them, and the items usually arrive in 2-4 weeks.  It is cheap, though...

[D-EJ915]

The Model M actually is a combined ISO/ANSI layout, it's just that the ISO keys are hidden by the left shift and the enter keys.

To test compatibility, grab a ballpoint pen refill or something of similar diameter, pop off the left shift key, and stick the refill in the right side hole (the one that doesn't have a spring mechanism.) If you get backslashes, you've got a compatible adapter. If you don't, you don't.

so to convert a ANSI to ISO I Just need to get the key stems?  That's pretty cool, didn't know that.

[bhtooefr]

Well... no.

You have to grind off the rivets, open up the board, and add in the BS mechanisms. There's also plugs in the holes where the stems go, and you have to remove those somehow.

[D-EJ915]

Well... no.

You have to grind off the rivets, open up the board, and add in the BS mechanisms. There's also plugs in the holes where the stems go, and you have to remove those somehow.

aww bummer

[wheel83]

thanks for the tip...

[FKSSR]

This is related, so I am going to slightly hijack this thread instead of starting another...

Does anyone know of a decently priced KVM switch with usb and ps/2 ports so that I can have two keyboards and/or mice hooked up to the same computer at the same time and just switch between the two (sets)?

Thanks!

[bhtooefr]

You don't need a KVM for that.

I don't believe there's a way to do multiple PS/2 devices on the same system cleanly, but you can do a PS/2 mouse, a PS/2 keyboard, and then a USB mouse and keyboard. Or, two USB mice and two USB keyboards. Or any combination of the above, as long as there's not more than one PS/2 mouse and one PS/2 keyboard.

[FKSSR]

oh sweet!  I didn't know that.  Thanks!

[bhtooefr]

And, also, if you really do have two PS/2 mice and keyboards that you want to use...

PS/2->USB adapters.

[zwmalone]

You don't need a KVM for that.

I don't believe there's a way to do multiple PS/2 devices on the same system cleanly, but you can do a PS/2 mouse, a PS/2 keyboard, and then a USB mouse and keyboard. Or, two USB mice and two USB keyboards. Or any combination of the above, as long as there's not more than one PS/2 mouse and one PS/2 keyboard.

IF you use linux you can use 2 PS/2 keyboards (One in the mouse port) because who really uses ps/2 mice anymore

[Viett]

The adapter I ordered came to day, and I was pretty pleased. PS/2 keyboards are hot-swappable with this adapter. I'm not sure if that means it is an adapter, or a converter, but I'm rather indifferent considering it works the way I want it to.

The USB ports are not 2.0, but I did not expect them to be. They’re pretty convenient for my old laptop that does not have USB 2.0 anyway, and only has one single port.

[wheel83]

i just got a couple.  they work fine for converting and also plugging in your mouse (enough power).  i wouldn't plug a hd to it though.
 

good find.

[cchan]

Argh, it seems the converter part of mine died two nights ago. Doesn't work any more with my Thinkpad either in the laptop itself or on the docking station. This is pissing me off! I have no good USB keyboards >.<

[patrickgeekhack]

Be prepared to wait a long time to receive these from Dealextreme.  I've placed a few orders with them, and the items usually arrive in 2-4 weeks.  It is cheap, though...

True. DealExtreme orders do take a long time to arrive. Stuffs from ledshoppe.com tend to take less time to arrive. I got my converters from DealExtreme and it took about two weeks to receive them. To be fair, the website did say that the products I ordered were back ordered, and they were waiting for the supplier to ship them. True or not, I don't know, but like you said, their products are cheap though.

[Hak Foo]

So if not this one, what would you reccomend?  I'd actually prefer something compact and keyboard-only, that can be ran in series with the (already far too long for my needs) stock cable.

[Biggs]

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103747




http://www.cyberguys.com/product-details/?productID=4850&rtn=10134&core_cross=SEARCH_DETAIL_COMPARISON

[soobaerodude]

The dealextreme adapter does not work for me with a Model M and a MacBook Pro.

[MANISH7]

http://www.cyberguys.com/product-details/?productID=4850&rtn=10134&core_cross=SEARCH_DETAIL_COMPARISON

Show Image

Show Image

Is this the same exact thing at clickykeyboards or is it just an imitation? The one I ordered from clickykeyboards works great. If these guys are selling the same exact thing at less than half the price - I'd rather order this. Thanks for the tip.

[ozar]

Is this the same exact thing at clickykeyboards or is it just an imitation? The one I ordered from clickykeyboards works great. If these guys are selling the same exact thing at less than half the price - I'd rather order this. Thanks for the tip.

Yes, it's the same thing.

[huha]

ETA: There are several DX forum posts that claim it doesn't work with ISO layout keyboards' extra key. I can't test this since all my keyboards are ANSI.

Can anyone recommend a reasonably inexpensive converter that does work with the extra key? I already bought 3 different adapters here and I'm sick of them. Two of them don't support the extra key and the third resets the keyboard from time to time, which extremely unnerving.

-huha

[MANISH7]

Yes, it's the same thing.

Thanks!

[iMav]

The dealextreme adapter does not work for me with a Model M and a MacBook Pro.

I can confirm this.  I ordered a few of these and they do not work with any of the Mac's that I own (Intel and PPC mini's, Macbook, MBP, and G5 iMac).

They all work just fine with the various PC's I have around the house though.

[watduzhkstand4]

dealextreme is the best place to go if you want cheap because they order as they receive your order. They don't have any stock in hand at anytime, that's how they can have such low prices.

[ch_123]

Can anyone recommend a reasonably inexpensive converter that does work with the extra key? I already bought 3 different adapters here and I'm sick of them. Two of them don't support the extra key and the third resets the keyboard from time to time, which extremely unnerving.

-huha

I have a Belkin one that works with my Unicomp and AT102W fine.

[huha]

I have a Belkin one that works with my Unicomp and AT102W fine.

Which one exactly?
I'm starting to need a few, so I'll either buy some of the belkin ones or ask the blue cube guys about shipping cost.

-huha

[iMav]

I think we need to clarify when we say a certain adapter works.  It is apparent that several work with Model M's on various PC's but not on Mac's.

[keyb_gr]

Dealextreme:  No go on Mac, May fail in 3 days

Guess these are affected by crappy soldering. Bad enough with oldschool solder, deadly for the lead-free (RoHS) stuff.

[jayray999]

I can vouch for the clickykeyboards/cyberguys adapter. It works without needing a reboot for a Model M Mini + Macbook combo and on all my Windows (XP) computers. Wish I had known that cyberguys are selling it for half of what clickykeyboards charge. As most of you probably know this adapter is the basis for a cool Model M mod: http://zevv.nl/play/misc/ibm-usb/. Part of me is tempted by this lower price to mod all my model Ms but Chris Lee's solution is more elegant http://mg8.org/rump/.

On a different note, avoid the purple-green dirt cheap Ebay adapter: you will have no use for the mouse (green) part and it almost always needs a reboot.

[ch_123]

Which one exactly?
I'm starting to need a few, so I'll either buy some of the belkin ones or ask the blue cube guys about shipping cost.

-huha

It's a "F5U119vE1" according to the sticker on the back. The place I got it from lists it as "F5U119EAE" on the site though.

Sometimes (although this is quite rare) it seems to kinda 'reset' itself - the computer ignores input for a second and the the lights on the keyboard flash on and then off. Then the keyboard comes back into action. I've seen this happen probably less than ten times in over a year, and it's good to go after a second. I've noticed this happen on both my laptop and my desktop, so it was more than likely adaptor related. Don't let it put you off it, I just thought I'd throw it up here for reference.

[keyb_gr]

For .de, availability for the F5U119 seems to be quite good.

[huha]

On a different note, avoid the purple-green dirt cheap Ebay adapter: you will have no use for the mouse (green) part and it almost always needs a reboot.

I happen to have two of them. They're all over the place in Germany, so if you're unknowing and just buy a PS/2 to USB adapter, you'll most likely get one of these.
My observations: They're crap. The mouse part is incredibly jerky and the keyboard part doesn't support the ISO layout. Which is even more irritating WHEN IT'S SOLD IN GERMANY. Oh, and it doesn't work with Linux.

Sometimes (although this is quite rare) it seems to kinda 'reset' itself - the computer ignores input for a second and the the lights on the keyboard flash on and then off. Then the keyboard comes back into action. I've seen this happen probably less than ten times in over a year, and it's good to go after a second. I've noticed this happen on both my laptop and my desktop, so it was more than likely adaptor related. Don't let it put you off it, I just thought I'd throw it up here for reference.

Awww, crap. I almost thought the Belkin adapter would be a solution.
Apart from the two craptastic adapters I own, I have another one; it features a translucent green case and looks just incredibly fugly (I can supply a photo if you so desire). This one works with Linux and supports the ISO layout; the mouse part doesn't jerk around, but it stops working with my Endurapro after about 5 seconds. I thought it was due to the Endurapro drawing too much current, but even a hacked-together PS/2 extension with usb-powered 5V leads (I know this is not recommended by the USB standard) will not remedy the situation. Also, it has the extremely unnerving "PS/2 reset" problem you described above. In certain circumstances, i.e. heavy pounding or testing for rollover, the thing behaves exactly as mentioned above (the flashing LEDs could indicate a PS/2 reset, but I don't have an oscilloscope, so this is just speculation), which is incredibly unnerving.
Given the extreme abundance of just a few models of adapters on the market, I think Belkin just use the same logic as my adapter, which wouldn't remedy my problem at all. At the moment, I use the translucent green adapter for the keyboard part and the "cheap ebay" adapter for the pointing stick, but it's quite jerky.

I probably wouldn't have gotten the Endurapro if I knew what a pain PS/2 to USB adapters are. Unicomp would sell me a USB Controller for the Endurapro, but the shipping cost will most likely cost me an arm and a leg ...

-huha

[cchan]

I happen to have two of [the cheap eBay adapters]. They're all over the place in Germany, so if you're unknowing and just buy a PS/2 to USB adapter, you'll most likely get one of these.
My observations: They're crap. The mouse part is incredibly jerky and the keyboard part doesn't support the ISO layout. Which is even more irritating WHEN IT'S SOLD IN GERMANY. Oh, and it doesn't work with Linux.

I have three. The mouse part works fine with my MX8100's touchpad and my Logitech Marble Mouse (with the MX8100 and an NMB RT6856TW keyboard connected, respectively). No experience with one and a Model M though.

[huha]

I think it's time to stop fooling around and do the one and only sensible thing: Collecting valuable information about adapters.
Luckily, there's USBDeview. Install it, download the vendor database, plug in your adapter and let the program do the magic for you.
Maybe we can collect a list of adapters and turn it into an article for the wiki.

What's of interest to us are Vendor ID and Device ID, as they characterize any given USB device. A picture of the respective device can't hurt, either.



(1)->
(2)->

(1) Vendor ID: 04d9
Product ID: 1400
- Works with Linux
- Supports ISO Layout
- Mouse doesn't work with Unicomp Endurapro
- Occasional "PS/2 reset" problems

(2) Vendor ID: 13ba
Product ID: 0017
- Does not work with Linux
- Does not support ISO Layout
- Mouse jerky

-huha

[cchan]

I have 13ba:0017. For me, mouse is usable. Never tested with ISO board or in Linux.

[Manyak]

I agree but I think I need a "USBDeview for Dummies" guide.  I plug in the "Blue Cube" and get one USB Composite Device and two HIDs installed.  

Looking at USBDeview it's impossible for me to pick out which one just got installed because I've already got dozens (and dozens) of HIDs installed. I'm trying to figure out what I'm looking for.

According to Clickykeyboards they recommend it because,

The Composite Device is the adapter itself, and the HIDs are the keyboard and mouse that it emulates. Think of them like a middle man.

When you press a key, the signal doesn't just get converted on its way to the PC. The device picks up the signal, then has its 'virtual' keyboard repeat the same key - which is what the PC sees.

[huha]

I agree but I think I need a "USBDeview for Dummies" guide.  I plug in the "Blue Cube" and get one USB Composite Device and two HIDs installed.  

I'll write something about this tomorrow (it's already way too late 'round here), but it doesn't really matter what device's information you get--vendor id and product id are the same for all components of composite devices, it's just the USB paths that differ.
The blue cube uses Vendor ID 0d3d and Product ID 0001 and it supports both a mouse and a keyboard (at least in theory).

-huha

[Manyak]

By the way, I found the best solution.

Link.


It's a direct hardware connection for your keyboard, so you don't get a repeat rate delay or a limit to your rollover (I know I do with mine at least).


Now if only PCs still had ISA slots, then we could get true native PS/2 cards.

[Manyak]

PCI to USB to PS/2 can cause a bunch of issues and one positive Newegg review isn't enough for me.

And how do you think your motherboard's USB ports are connected?




USB goes on the PCI bus just like PS/2 and floppy controllers go on the ISA bus. Which PCs still have by the way, it's just called LPC now (low pin count).

[Manyak]

Sorry, still skeptical.  It's my nature.   I'll believe it when someone buys it and tries it on multiple OS's and keyboards.

http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?t=5621&highlight=pci+usb

I'd buy it, but I don't have a free PCI slot :sad:

[cchan]

What of laptops? That's the main situation in which I use my adapter because my laptop doesn't have any PS/2 ports.

[huha]

Can anyone supply a picture of the blue cube for the wiki? (I don't know if stock photos constitute fair use for things like that)

Also, can anyone supply data about this adapter and about the Belkin one?

-huha

[huha]

And for the Ziotec 008841
Pics attached.

Thanks!

I'm not exactly gonna give this guy a ringing endorsement.  I only use it for my wife's trackball (CH DT225).  She hasn't yelled at me lately so I assume it's working fine under Windows Vista.  I also just plugged in my Model M Mini and it seems to be working.  YMMV.

What's the problem with it? Clickykeyboards seem to sell it for use with M13s.

Huha, I'm getting this message (Firefox) trying to access your wiki entry

I think this happens due to the > in the title. I asked iMav to rename it, it should work fine then.

-huha

[keyb_gr]

BTW - are these dongles all safe for hotplugging?

I'd always use the USB side for that if possible.

I remember warnings about blowing the PS/2 electronics on your motherboard but I never had it happen.

Self-resetting fuses ftw. I have accidentally pulled PS/2 'boards a few times and nothing bad happened, but plugging in during operation I'd rather not try. I would guess that the shield (normally grounded) usually makes contact first and thus prevents anything bad from happening, but still I'd rather be safe than sorry.

(Speaking of fuses, some German car manufacturers have apparently managed to put these in the ground return rather than the battery voltage (+12V) path, with some funny side effects when one blows. So much for quality engineering work.)

[cchan]

I hotplug PS/2 keyboards and mouses all the time with no ill effects.

[genegold]

I don't think these dual adapters were mentioned, tho I can't attest how well they work with Model M's (I've found monoprice sells good cables, at least, and shipping is really cheap):

http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=104&cp_id=10404&cs_id=1040401&p_id=173&seq=1&format=2

http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=104&cp_id=10404&cs_id=1040401&p_id=3707&seq=1&format=2

http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=104&cp_id=10404&cs_id=1040401&p_id=2083&seq=1&format=2

[genegold]

The first one someone else here had. The others don't get good reviews even at Monoprice.

Blue Cube all the way - why settle for something untested to save a couple of bucks?

Actually, the first one with a 94% rating by 19 users is ~$5-10 saved compared to cyberguys, depending on the method of shipping.  The other two, just different colors, have been rated by only four people total, two of whom gave it four or five stars.  But as I said, I haven't tried any of them; I just know Monoprice for being one of the most upstanding and customer friendly places I've dealt with (I was looking there to see if they have AT to PS/2 adapters, asked about in another thread). Those aside, I can attest that the Radio Shack version ($17.95) has been working quite well with a 1391401 - while a cube is on the way (seen before the monoprice version).