Making/modding keyboard questions

[User1]

Hi, i am possibly interested in making/modifing a keyboard to work better for me but i don't know much about this so i thought i would try asking some questions here.

The main reason i want something different is for games. I am pretty picky with my mouse and keyboard and so far i haven't found a keyboard that works well for me with games. i just find that the standard keyboard layout, physically, is really bad for games. it's a mash up of different key sizes and rows with different positions. After playing dota 2 and now trying starcraft 2, i find that it's a lot harder to work around this problem.

I made a drawing of what i would like to have. A small keyboard that can sit flat, all rows of keys the same height and has the keys lined up straight...



I know there are similar keyboards, but i haven't seen any that are really close to what i want. What would be involved in building/modding something like this or close to this? I'm wondering if it's worth looking into more or not. Thanks.

[Gid]

That looks good on paper, but have to tried prototyping it?  My gut tells me that having keys on a grid like that might actually work against you.  Staggered rows provide more ways of confirming your fingertips' positions without looking at the keyboard.  Consider this:  If there were keys directly above and below another key, all you have to do is misjudge your fingertip's position on the y-axis, and you'd be hitting another key without even knowing it.  With staggered rows, though, your fingertip runs into the edge of another key when it goes too high/low, forcing your brain to stop and rethink your fingertip's position.

... Then again, I could be wrong.  The layout looks really good, but I think the first step would be to build a facsimile and pretend to type on it.

[HPE1000]

If you are just talking about making a single keyboard like this, it would probably not be possible, especially at a decent price. And I don't think many would be interested in doing this, if you wanted to make a bunch of them. It would need a custom pcb, custom cut plate if you are using that, custom keycaps because you don't want any difference in the row height. It would need a custom case as well.

Might be more than you are looking to do.

[Pacifist]

If you are just talking about making a single keyboard like this, it would probably not be possible, especially at a decent price. And I don't think many would be interested in doing this, if you wanted to make a bunch of them. It would need a custom pcb, custom cut plate if you are using that, custom keycaps because you don't want any difference in the row height. It would need a custom case as well.

Might be more than you are looking to do.

Really all he needs is a custom PCB, the switches, and a flat profile set of caps from sp. No need for plate and you can just let the board sit on the table like that, even though its not that safe

This could also sort of be done with a matrix style POS board and something for the parts with stabs

[Grendel]

I haven't used a keyboard for gaming ever since the Belkin SpeedPad came out, always found keyboards rather uncomfortable for that purpose. Currently I'm using a G13 as a left hand controller, but there are a few other options available like the Razer (ack) Orbweaver or Tartarus. May be worth taking a look at, especially if you combine that w/ something like a G600 mouse -- any control will be right at your fingertips

[HPE1000]

If you are just talking about making a single keyboard like this, it would probably not be possible, especially at a decent price. And I don't think many would be interested in doing this, if you wanted to make a bunch of them. It would need a custom pcb, custom cut plate if you are using that, custom keycaps because you don't want any difference in the row height. It would need a custom case as well.

Might be more than you are looking to do.

Really all he needs is a custom PCB, the switches, and a flat profile set of caps from sp. No need for plate and you can just let the board sit on the table like that, even though its not that safe

This could also sort of be done with a matrix style POS board and something for the parts with stabs

I'm just going based on his mockup, obviously he could cut corners but I am not sure that is what he really wants. How much does it cost to get a single PCB designed/made though?

[CPTBadAss]

Why are you so stuck on a PCB? Just get a plate cut and then handwire it.

OP, if you understand that it might cost you more time and money to make a custom then buying a stock one, go for it. You'll probably be troubleshooting it *a lot*.

[Findecanor]

There are programmable point-of-sale keyboards with matrix layout, black Cherry MX switches and n-key rollover that are only a little bit larger. They already come with flat keycaps, and keycaps that are twice as wide, spanning two key switches at once.
Big problem is that new keyboards and replacement keycaps are quite expensive, but used keyboards should not be a problem. Space bar is often also 2u large.
Brands: Tipro, Access IS, Jarltech. If you get a broken one that is too large, you could reuse it as a starting point for your project, cutting off excess keys and mending with wires, etc. or just reuse a part of the matrix plate.

[heedpantsnow]

Your drawing is the spitting image of a Microsoft Wedge keyboard.  Go to a Microsoft store and try one out.

Link:  http://www.amazon.com/Microsoft-U6R-00001-Wedge-Mobile-Keyboard/dp/B008OEHPKM/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1392218563&sr=8-1&keywords=microsoft+wedge+keyboard

[Melvang]

I would agree with CptBadAss here.  Just get a custom plate cut via water jet or laser (plenty of resources here for that at decent prices even for a one off plate) and just hand wire the matrix with diodes to achieve either 6KRO or NKRO depending on what firmware you use.  I am currently in the process of some cad work to do that myself.  Head up the making stuff section and have a look at the GH Cad Resources Hub for any questions regarding key spacing and hole dimensions and such.  There is a very nice series of threads on DT from Matt3o i believe with a nice process of how he does his hand wired matrices.  He has done at least 2.

[Levial]

That looks good on paper, but have to tried prototyping it?  My gut tells me that having keys on a grid like that might actually work against you.  Staggered rows provide more ways of confirming your fingertips' positions without looking at the keyboard.  Consider this:  If there were keys directly above and below another key, all you have to do is misjudge your fingertip's position on the y-axis, and you'd be hitting another key without even knowing it.  With staggered rows, though, your fingertip runs into the edge of another key when it goes too high/low, forcing your brain to stop and rethink your fingertip's position.

I cannot corfirm this for myself. I love Gamepads for having all keys on the same row.
I like the idea!

[Melvang]

game pads in a matrix layout like the orbweaver, nostromo and the logitech version feel completely different than typing on a matrix layout.  I would suggest getting a cheap used keyboard off ebay or some other site of the sort with a full matrix layout before you start spending the money and time building one though.  A lot of people claim that the Ergo Dox is the ultimate layout for most typing tasks and I would love to build one of a similar setup to replace my orbweaver (I love my orbweaver after I put clears and reds in it but has Issues I can't overlook).  But that really isn't a true matrix layout due to the keys not being in straight rows.  I have see a couple people here try out a true matrix layout here and just could not get used to it.

[regack]

The main reason i want something different is for games.

If this is the main thing you want, and you still want to custom build something, I would start out thinking about what keys you really want to include, and get rid of the rest.  Anything you make, the smaller it gets, the cheaper it gets.   How many keys do you need on a regular basis for the type of games you tend play?  For myself, I figure I generally need a max of ~30.  Of those, really only ~18 are heavily used, the rest are just nice-to-haves.

If you're going to build it, and want to make your own custom gaming thing, you have the option to really think about placement, and I don't think you need to limit yourself to standard keyboard shape.  Maybe something like one hand of the ergodox would work?  Get a plate for that, and hand wire it?   If you're going for something more rectangular, then maybe a PCB would be good after all...  I guess some of it comes down to how much are you willing to spend - but certainly reducing the size down to just what you need for gaming is probably the best place to start.  You can just do all your regular typing on your normal board.

Anyway, just my thoughts. 

[technomancy]

That looks good on paper, but have to tried prototyping it?  My gut tells me that having keys on a grid like that might actually work against you.

I've been typing on a columnar-layout Ergodox for the past few months, and I have to say it's a lot more comfortable for touch-typing. Haven't done any gaming on it. The main problem is that once you get used to it, it's difficult to go back to staggered rows; particularly in the bottom left corner. The Ergodox is a bit different from the mock-up above in that there is still staggering; it's just vertical staggering instead of horizontal staggering. That way it matches up with the fact that your different fingers are of different lengths.

But I definitely wouldn't say the staggering is there for accuracy reasons; it was originally introduced just to avoid jams of typewriter arms: http://loup-vaillant.fr/articles/better-keyboards

[Findecanor]

But I definitely wouldn't say the staggering is there for accuracy reasons; it was originally introduced just to avoid jams of typewriter arms: http://loup-vaillant.fr/articles/better-keyboards.

No, staggering was there to get the arms holding the keys evenly spaced. The layout of the letters on the keys was the second step, designed so that typists could type at speed without jamming the type arms. Type arms and key arms are connected, so the key layout affects both, but they are not the same.

[Levial]

But I definitely wouldn't say the staggering is there for accuracy reasons; it was originally introduced just to avoid jams of typewriter arms: http://loup-vaillant.fr/articles/better-keyboards

This is exactly how it is.

[Pacifist]

Why are you so stuck on a PCB? Just get a plate cut and then handwire it.

OP, if you understand that it might cost you more time and money to make a custom then buying a stock one, go for it. You'll probably be troubleshooting it *a lot*.

Oh yea forgot about handwiring. OP should first mess around with cardboard stock and get a good layout, then make something more durable.