Advice needed...

[drgnfang]

So I'm a total newb on the mechanical switch keyboards so take that into consideration...

I recently purchased some Dell AT101w's off ebay (3 to be precise, I want to try modding the keys), and for the most part I'm satisfied. I had used one of these before, so I knew pretty much was I was getting into. The issue is that the board doesn't quite satisfy me. There are issues with key's being activated without fully bottoming out (I notice this most when "hovering" over CTRL+TAB and CTRL+F4). The tinnie/hollow sound is kinda annoying, specifically with the space bar.

So, I am now looking for my next keyboard.

I was considering the DAS 3, but the issues with the N-Rollover are keeping me away from it. It's just to damn expensive for those types of problems.

Currently I'm looking at the ABS M1. Based on the reviews here it seems like a good starting point for me, but I figured I would ask and see if something better would be suggested.

Usage: Lots of code, and lots of text written every day. I spend (on average) 12-14 hours a day at my computer.

Requirements: 10-key. Feels better than the dell. Not significantly bigger than the dell. Under $150 shipped. NIB.

Noise: I don't really care how loud/quiet it is, this is my home office so I won't be disturbing anyone else.

Switch type: Seriously, I don't know enough or have enough experience for this to matter to me. If enough people say it is good I'm willing to give it a shot.

I do predict that I will go through at least 2-3 more keyboards before I find what works for me.

[bhtooefr]

If you want a keyboard that won't activate unless you're fully bottoming it out, you need a rubber dome or something.

If you rest your fingers on a key, don't depress it at all.

The ABS M1 uses a fake simplified version of the switches in the AT101W.

How heavy do you want the keypresses to be? If you don't mind a really heavy keystroke, go for the Unicomp Customizer 104 or SpaceSaver. $69. The SpaceSaver takes less desk space, the Customizer is made on the old Model M molds.

If you've typed on a Das III and liked it, look at the Cherry G80-3000LSCEU and the Ione Scorpius M10.

[itlnstln]

Go with the ABS M1; it's a fantastic typing keyboard.  I am suprised, though, that you having issues with the Dell around activating keys.  Maybe you just hover heavier than I do.  I normally suggest the Dell, but I have been very pleased with the M1; it's just like the Dell with better tactility, and because there is a firmer tactility, you can't activate the keys just by resting on them (you actually have to move the key past the tactile point to activate the switch).  If yout prefer lighter switches, you can usually find a Compaq MX11800 on eBay for around $20 + shipping.  These have Cherry brown switches and are similar to the Alps in the Dell, but lighter.  You may have more issues with activating keys accidently with Cherry browns, though.

Don't worry about going through keyboards before you find what's best.  Most of us have 5, 10 or more, and we still don't know what we want.

[bhtooefr]

Worse - some of us know exactly what we want, but it doesn't exist.

(I want a buckling spring with stupid-light springs. Of course, I need to get an AT adapter, to see how these SMKs actuate... if they actuate properly, then I'll revise what I want to a longer travel SMK.)

[itlnstln]

Worse - some of us know exactly what we want, but it doesn't exist.

QFT

Worse - some of us know exactly what we want, but it doesn't exist.

QFT one more time just for good measure.

[drgnfang]

For how hard I'm pressing the keys... I can get it to activate with under 1/8" of depression. This is actually causing some problems with getting "double caps", like "THe". Apparently I am hitting the second key before I fully release the shift...

[ozar]

I'm pretty much repeating/confirming what has already been said by the others here, but...

Typing on ABS M1 feels much like it does on Dell AT101W, but the M1 doesn't feel quite as good, at least to me.  Still, the M1 is much smaller, and you can get two of them for less than the price of one Das Keyboard and have some money left over.

For something that the typing on feels similar to the Das Keyboard but is much less expensive, consider the Ione Scorpius M10.  Again, it's two for one when compared to the Das Keyboard.  Note that some of the M10's have been reported as having poor construction (check Scorpius M10 posts here for details).

[bhtooefr]

M10s are usually in the $50 range, you can find G80-3000LSCEUs in the $65 range, and the Das is $130, FWIW.

I'd PROBABLY go for the G80-3000 over the M10 if I were buying a board new. (I bought this M10 for significantly less than that, though.)

[itlnstln]

Typing on ABS M1 feels much like it does on Dell AT101W, but the M1 doesn't feel quite as good, at least to me.

This brings up a good point.  Key feel is very subjective (I, for one, like the M1 better than the Dell because of its more pronounced tactility, but that's just me).  What usually happens is people look for advice on what kind of switch/keyboard they might like for whatever reason, they try a suggestion or two, then they just end up getting every keyboard they can get their hands on to try.  Bottom line, everyone here will give you their suggestion, and you are going to either get frustrated and use what you have or will just buy one everything just like the rest of us.  By the way, welcome to GeekHack!

[BigWopHH]

This brings up a good point.  Key feel is very subjective (I, for one, like the M1 better than the Dell because of its more pronounced tactility, but that's just me).  What usually happens is people look for advice on what kind of switch/keyboard they might like for whatever reason, they try a suggestion or two, then they just end up getting every keyboard they can get their hands on to try.  Bottom line, everyone here will give you their suggestion, and you are going to either get frustrated and use what you have or will just buy one everything just like the rest of us.  By the way, welcome to GeekHack!

I think you are exactly right.  I wouldn't have tried three or four of the keyboards in my collection had it not been for learning about the different switch types and their pros and cons on this board.

[drgnfang]

I'm trying to avoid getting every keyboard I can find, maybe every other keyboard? It should be noted that even though the dell is my first mechanical switch board, I am a keyboard ****. I've owned everything from the Apple aluminum (GF has it now), the Saitek and Saitek II, several other dell keyboards (including one bluetooth which was very disappointing), etc...

I guess the advice I'm looking for is two fold, first what is similar to but "better" than the AT101 (seems the M1 may fit that bill, at least enough to pick one up and test), and second what is a general  good "starter" board. I will likely pickup a unicomp next month, as everyone should own a BS keyboard and I can get those NIB.

There are a lot of different switches, and even more boards, and as you said the "feel" will always be subjective. I'm just looking for a starting point based upon a board I am familiar with (the dell).

Out of curiousity, why are so many of the companies who make mechanical switch keyboards located out of the US? Also, why don't most of them have "normal" import chains to the US?

Thanks for the welcome, and the advice/information so far.

[itlnstln]

Not to digress, but I think one of the reasons many of us own as many keyboards as we do is because we can't try them out at a store or a friends house, etc.  I know I would several less 'boards if I could have tried them out first, but I also don't spend as much on my keyboards as some of the other members.  The only reason I shelled out for the ABSs is because I spent $10 to try the Dell first (and that was NIB), but then again, I can be a cheap bastard .

[itlnstln]

Out of curiousity, why are so many of the companies who make mechanical switch keyboards located out of the US? Also, why don't most of them have "normal" import chains to the US?

Americans like pretty 'boards, not good ones.  Form over function, bottom line.  Importers won't bring them in if they can't sell 'em.  It's sad, I know.

[patrickgeekhack]

...What usually happens is people look for advice on what kind of switch/keyboard they might like for whatever reason, they try a suggestion or two, then they just end up getting every keyboard they can get their hands on to try.  Bottom line, everyone here will give you their suggestion, and you are going to either get frustrated and use what you have or will just buy one everything just like the rest of us.  By the way, welcome to GeekHack!

Very true. I currently own only two: a Customizer 104 and a Dell AT101W. If I did not have other priorities, I would probably be buying a few more keyboards :-)

[itlnstln]

I had pretty much settled on the fact that I wanted only 'boards with black Alps.  Now, I am toying with getting a Filco with brown Cherrys or even an HHKB Pro 2.  You just can't stop.

[patrickgeekhack]

Americans like pretty 'boards, not good ones.  Form over function, bottom line.  Importers won't bring them in if they can't sell 'em.  It's sad, I know.

There's a lot of truth in your comment. It seems that it's completely different in Japan. I may be wrong, but according to what I have read so far, Japanese seem to like good keyboards, and are prepared to pay a lot for them.

[Eclairz]

I think its more realistic to say that the west has become obsessed with mice and pointing devices resulting in the reduced awareness that keyboards are just as important. You could see this in mobile phones a few years ago, but as more and more people realized you need a keyboard to actually do some work, more and more business oriented phones come with bigger keyboards (e.g. blackberry, htc, nokia, sony ericsson) and that the touch screen/scroll ball has taken a back seat.

[Biggs]

There's a lot of truth in your comment. It seems that it's completely different in Japan. I may be wrong, but according to what I have read so far, Japanese seem to like good keyboards, and are prepared to pay a lot for them.

Not only for keyboards but for most things, like cellphones for instance.  Japan's cellphones are a couple of years more advanced over the rest of the world.

[itlnstln]

There's a lot of truth in your comment. It seems that it's completely different in Japan. I may be wrong, but according to what I have read so far, Japanese seem to like good keyboards, and are prepared to pay a lot for them.

This is the type of crap Americans want:

http://www.engadget.com/2009/03/04/elecoms-new-tk-fcp004-ultra-slim-keyboard-is-minimalism-at-its/#comments

[drgnfang]

Well, lets be honest, if it had decent switches there would probably be several people on this forum who would buy one.

[itlnstln]

Well, lets be honest, if it had decent switches there would probably be several people on this forum who would buy one.

That's just it.  There is no impetus to put decent switches in it.  I, too would buy one if it had decent switches, but people don't care how it types, just that it looks pretty on their desk and it can input some letters and numbers.

I apologize to everyone.  I am in a ranting mood today.

[Ulysses31]

That thing looks better than an Apple keyboard to me, and probably works just as well.  Sadly I don't think we'll ever see an ultra-flat keyboard with "decent" switches, unless the keys are on little trampoline-like structures that appear flat on top but travel quite far down; it'd still be thick but at least have the appearance of being flat and trendy on top.  Personally i'm not keen on ultra-flat designs.

[itlnstln]

The best option would be Cherry MLs.  I, for one, prefer full travel switches for my daily drivers.  I do have an ML4100, but I carry that with me as a laptop keyboard alternative.

[cmr]

Not to digress, but I think one of the reasons many of us own as many keyboards as we do is because we can't try them out at a store or a friends house, etc.  I know I would several less 'boards if I could have tried them out first, but I also don't spend as much on my keyboards as some of the other members.

fortunately for a few of my friends, i and a couple of others (who have some buckling spring or alps boards) are eventually going to get all the keyboards we own in one room for a bit so folks can try them out.

[wellington1869]

fortunately for a few of my friends, i and a couple of others (who have some buckling spring or alps boards) are eventually going to get all the keyboards we own in one room for a bit so folks can try them out.

thats a great idea.

[cmr]

thats a great idea.

yes, like a tupperware party. for nerds.

[itlnstln]

Friends?  What are those?  

[patrickgeekhack]

yes, like a tupperware party. for nerds.

I love Tupperware parties. I bought quite a bit of these, but only the ones I thought would be helpful. They were very handy when I moved to Canada. The trick with Tupperware is to buy only what you need, not because it's Tupperware.

Anyway, initiating others to good quality keyboards is a noble act. Showing others what they did not even know they've been missing