Cherry MX Green vs Topre Board

[Ch0b0]

Hi everyone, first time poster here. I'm glad to see a nice haven for keyboard enthusiast . I own Cherry MX brown, red , black and blue keyboards.

I love the reds for gaming, but not so much for typing. The blacks collect dust and I enjoy the blues for typing. I use the browns at work, but I am not satisfied with the feel.
When the CODE keyboard came out I was tempted to take the plunge, but I was disappointed to hear that the clear switches have the same "grindy" feel as cherry browns.

However, now the green switches have piqued my interest. After visiting this forum it appears Topre switches receive nothing but praise and most people seem to not go back to cherry switches. I'm interested in the Realforce 87 series, but the lack of a return policy on elitekeyboards makes me hesitant.

Has anyone been able to directly compare these two switches?

[SpAmRaY]

I don't know who told you clears are 'grindy' but they are mistaken.

Also you probably can't get any different than greens and topre 

[nathairtras]

Have you used a Model M?  MX Greens are the closest (IMHO) you can get to a buckling spring in a Cherry switch.  If you have used a Model M, and prefer it over any of your Cherry boards, but noise is an issue (or you just want a different layout) then MX Greens are a good idea.  Still loud, but not as loud.  Coworkers comment on it at times, but it isn't pinging like a Model M.

If you don't like the Model M, or if a MX Blue switch with more resistance sounds bad, don't bother with Greens.

Personally, I love them.  Using a QFR with greens, at some point want to buy an Ergodox kit and enough greens to fill it up.  That, or I'll just buy another QFR and put them side by side, more likely since I'm lazy and not too keen on all that soldering.

[daerid]

http://www.elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=topre_keyboards,rftenkeyless&pid=rf_se1800

Get it. The absolute best standard qwerty layout keyboard ever made. When I had one I purchased it for $349, so at $199 it's a steal. Great for typing and gaming and everything in between. Do it and don't look back.

[aref]

I had a CMQFR with MX Green switches. I did't like them at all. I've owned keyboards with all MX switches except for Clears. Greens, to me, felt uncomfortably stiff, not at all pleasurable to use. I use a 55-gram Realforce 87U and an IBM SSK; I also have a Unicomp Ultra Classic, so you have a sense of my preference for key switches. I've owned 45-gram 87Us, but I found them a bit too light, although heavier or different in feel from MX Red and Blue switches, which are too light for me. If you like a firm but smooth switch, the 55-gram Topre is a fantastic switch. You may be hard pressed to return to Cherry switches after using a Topre. Topre's 45-gram switch is different from Cherry's 45-gram switch (Red): the required down force has a considerably different feel. In my opinion, if you buy an 87U, you'll find it to be unlike any other key switch you've used. Topres have a unique feel and responsiveness--it's a grand keyboard. I've known former Cherry MX users who have become Topre converts, me included.

[eth0s]

Hi everyone, first time poster here. I'm glad to see a nice haven for keyboard enthusiast . I own Cherry MX brown, red , black and blue keyboards.

I love the reds for gaming, but not so much for typing. The blacks collect dust and I enjoy the blues for typing. I use the browns at work, but I am not satisfied with the feel.
When the CODE keyboard came out I was tempted to take the plunge, but I was disappointed to hear that the clear switches have the same "grindy" feel as cherry browns.

However, now the green switches have piqued my interest. After visiting this forum it appears Topre switches receive nothing but praise and most people seem to not go back to cherry switches. I'm interested in the Realforce 87 series, but the lack of a return policy on elitekeyboards makes me hesitant.

Has anyone been able to directly compare these two switches?

MX greens are like super heavy blues.  Very stiff.  Topre is totally different.  You won't regret trying Topre.  You will never wake up one day and say, "gee whiz, I sure wish I never tried Topre switches."  But you may wake up one day and say, "gosh o golly, I wish I wasn't such a scurredy cat when I was young.  I wish I had tried Topre earlier.  Oh well, so much regret, my life was much harder than it had to be.  Now I will die scared and alone."   Don't live a life of regret.   Buck up and buy Topre.   

[Linkbane]

Hi everyone, first time poster here. I'm glad to see a nice haven for keyboard enthusiast . I own Cherry MX brown, red , black and blue keyboards.

I love the reds for gaming, but not so much for typing. The blacks collect dust and I enjoy the blues for typing. I use the browns at work, but I am not satisfied with the feel.
When the CODE keyboard came out I was tempted to take the plunge, but I was disappointed to hear that the clear switches have the same "grindy" feel as cherry browns.

However, now the green switches have piqued my interest. After visiting this forum it appears Topre switches receive nothing but praise and most people seem to not go back to cherry switches. I'm interested in the Realforce 87 series, but the lack of a return policy on elitekeyboards makes me hesitant.

Has anyone been able to directly compare these two switches?

I'm using Topre 45g and MX Blue switches as my daily boards. I've also used MX Greens for a  period of time, about a month. I'll say that for typing, Greens are the worst for me because they're so heavy and it's difficult to type quickly for long periods. You won't have accuracy issues, though. Topre is quite good for typing, but it's just something about it that makes it a little bit slower than Blues for me. They feel very nice, better I might go so far to say, but Blues to me remain the best for typing, with Topres still quite good.

[YoungMichael88]

If your black switches "collect dust" because you find them a bit too heavy to use instead of reds, then green is probably not the right switch for you. They are just as heavy as blacks. If blue switches don't do it for you for gaming then again, you won't want greens for that either. I dont have much to say about Topre as I have only just tested a couple for a few minutes each. But like Spamray said, you can't get much more different than Greens vs. Topre. Night and Day.

Good Luck!

[Ch0b0]

Hmm, I'm leaning towards the Torpres at this point. I'd be using this in an office environment so the reduced noise would be a plus . I guess the next question would be HHKB or Realforce? I do development mostly in Java (Eclipse and IntelliJ really like to use the function keys...) so constantly using modifier keys seems like it may be a PITA with the HHKB. I also tend to use control + the arrow keys a lot.

[riotonthebay]

The Realforce 87U 55g is currently on sale at elitekeyboards.com, and I've heard a number of people say it's the best typing experience they've ever had.

[dante]

Saying that Cherry MX Greens are the closest to Buckling Springs is like saying a hot dog is the closest thing to an Italian Sausage.

[Emospence]

Never tried greens but Topre is teh secks

[aref]

I had a CMQFR, for all of two days, with MX Green switches; and the MX Green is nothing like a
buckling-spring switch. The MX Green is nothing more than a stiff switch that, for me, lacks feel
and responsiveness. A lot of people like the MX Green; but I'll stay with my buckling-springs and
55-gram Topre switches--just a matter of personal preference. And it seems that I use my 87U KBs
more than my SSK.

[Linkbane]

Hmm, I'm leaning towards the Torpres at this point. I'd be using this in an office environment so the reduced noise would be a plus . I guess the next question would be HHKB or Realforce? I do development mostly in Java (Eclipse and IntelliJ really like to use the function keys...) so constantly using modifier keys seems like it may be a PITA with the HHKB. I also tend to use control + the arrow keys a lot.

Right, the Realforce 87-key boards should serve you well if you use the navigation cluster and function keys. I use the FC660C, which requires Fn for the function layer but does have the arrow cluster and insert/delete. A TKL or full-size seems like the best bet for you.

[tbc]

Saying that Cherry MX Greens are the closest to Buckling Springs is like saying a hot dog is the closest thing to an Italian Sausage.

ya...people need to stop saying this.

greens are just really heavy crappy blues.  the only time they're good is when you have huge hands and fingers (iphones are uncomfortably small for you).

[1pq]

Saying that Cherry MX Greens are the closest to Buckling Springs is like saying a hot dog is the closest thing to an Italian Sausage.

ya...people need to stop saying this.

greens are just really heavy crappy blues.  the only time they're good is when you have huge hands and fingers (iphones are uncomfortably small for you).

lol I can't really say since I've never tried greens, but this seems kind of true...a crappy switch made crappier by an excessively forceful spring. Of course, some heavy typists love greens, so we probably shouldn't be sh*tting on it...

[Elrick]

the only time they're good is when you have huge hands and fingers (iphones are uncomfortably small for you).

That is why they NOW rule in my world.  For everyone else with tiny, midget-like hands from the movie scenes in the "Wizard of Oz" deserve thorpies or that other lame calculator - hhkb.

Getting greys soon so for me this is a GREAT time to be a keyboard lover  .

[1pq]

the only time they're good is when you have huge hands and fingers (iphones are uncomfortably small for you).

That is why they NOW rule in my world.  For everyone else with tiny, midget-like hands from the movie scenes in the "Wizard of Oz" deserve thorpies or that other lame calculator - hhkb.

Getting Greys soon so for me this is a GREAT time to be a keyboard lover  .

Are you human? Or sasquatch?

[tbc]

Saying that Cherry MX Greens are the closest to Buckling Springs is like saying a hot dog is the closest thing to an Italian Sausage.

ya...people need to stop saying this.

greens are just really heavy crappy blues.  the only time they're good is when you have huge hands and fingers (iphones are uncomfortably small for you).

lol I can't really say since I've never tried greens, but this seems kind of true...a crappy switch made crappier by an excessively forceful spring. Of course, some heavy typists love greens, so we probably shouldn't be sh*tting on it...

blues are the best ohce you learn not to bottom out; if you insist on bottoming out, then topre is the switch of choice. the only downside is noise in the office and that it's slightly too light (blue with clear springs is heavenly).

but greens DAMPEN the nouse of the blue and the weight is ridiculous. with heavy hands though, you outweigh the springs AND you usually bottom out, adding sound back to the switch

[Elrick]

Are you human? Or sasquatch?

Certified Yowie  .

[demik]

Can't go wrong with either tbh. 55g topre is best topre. And mx greens are best switch unless you have ***** hands.

[Ch0b0]

I pulled the trigger on a Realforce 87u 55g. Looking forward to it!   

[berserkfan]

wow, nobody is defending Cherry MX anymore?

And no one spoke up on behalf of buckling springs?

Where are the Model F enthusiasts? This discussion has been overrun by Topre!

[1pq]

BS is BS

[aref]

I pulled the trigger on a Realforce 87u 55g. Looking forward to it!   

I prefer my 55-gram Topre 87U over my buckling-spring SSK. Some might consider this
sacrilege; but Topre 55-gram switches feel so very nice to me; I look forward to using
my RF 55-gram keyboards. I can use my 87U all day with no fatigue. My SSK takes a toll
my digits after five or six hours of typing. But my 55-gram Topres take me through nine
or more hours of keyboarding with ease. Just one guy's experience here.

Enjoy your new RF 87U/55g!

[Linkbane]

I pulled the trigger on a Realforce 87u 55g. Looking forward to it!   

I prefer my 55-gram Topre 87U over my buckling-spring SSK. Some might consider this
sacrilege; but Topre 55-gram switches feel so very nice to me; I look forward to using
my RF 55-gram keyboards. I can use my 87U all day with no fatigue. My SSK takes a toll
my digits after five or six hours of typing. But my 55-gram Topres take me through nine
or more hours of keyboarding with ease. Just one guy's experience here.

Enjoy your new RF 87U/55g!

How quickly do you type? If I could type for 5-6 hours a day without fatigue on 45 g RF or Blues even, that'd be nice.

[Polymer]

I pulled the trigger on a Realforce 87u 55g. Looking forward to it!   

I prefer my 55-gram Topre 87U over my buckling-spring SSK. Some might consider this
sacrilege; but Topre 55-gram switches feel so very nice to me; I look forward to using
my RF 55-gram keyboards. I can use my 87U all day with no fatigue. My SSK takes a toll
my digits after five or six hours of typing. But my 55-gram Topres take me through nine
or more hours of keyboarding with ease. Just one guy's experience here.

Enjoy your new RF 87U/55g!

How quickly do you type? If I could type for 5-6 hours a day without fatigue on 45 g RF or Blues even, that'd be nice.

You should try variable RF if you are liking your Topre...it'll be easier on your hands.

[Linkbane]

I pulled the trigger on a Realforce 87u 55g. Looking forward to it!   

I prefer my 55-gram Topre 87U over my buckling-spring SSK. Some might consider this
sacrilege; but Topre 55-gram switches feel so very nice to me; I look forward to using
my RF 55-gram keyboards. I can use my 87U all day with no fatigue. My SSK takes a toll
my digits after five or six hours of typing. But my 55-gram Topres take me through nine
or more hours of keyboarding with ease. Just one guy's experience here.

Enjoy your new RF 87U/55g!

How quickly do you type? If I could type for 5-6 hours a day without fatigue on 45 g RF or Blues even, that'd be nice.

You should try variable RF if you are liking your Topre...it'll be easier on your hands.

I actually was one of the few who wanted variable. If it was available on the FC660C I'd take it without a second glance, but I'm personally not a fan of the big bezels on the RF boards. Reminds me of an SSK, but I know that because it's produced nowadays, there's no excuse for it to be so fat.

[Polymer]

I pulled the trigger on a Realforce 87u 55g. Looking forward to it!   

I prefer my 55-gram Topre 87U over my buckling-spring SSK. Some might consider this
sacrilege; but Topre 55-gram switches feel so very nice to me; I look forward to using
my RF 55-gram keyboards. I can use my 87U all day with no fatigue. My SSK takes a toll
my digits after five or six hours of typing. But my 55-gram Topres take me through nine
or more hours of keyboarding with ease. Just one guy's experience here.

Enjoy your new RF 87U/55g!

How quickly do you type? If I could type for 5-6 hours a day without fatigue on 45 g RF or Blues even, that'd be nice.

You should try variable RF if you are liking your Topre...it'll be easier on your hands.

I actually was one of the few who wanted variable. If it was available on the FC660C I'd take it without a second glance, but I'm personally not a fan of the big bezels on the RF boards. Reminds me of an SSK, but I know that because it's produced nowadays, there's no excuse for it to be so fat.

I know what you mean w/ the bezel...I used to think it was annoying...now it doesn't bother me at all.  It just looks funny when you compare it to other keyboards that don't have that extra top part on the bezel..but space wise it really doesn't make a difference and you end up getting used to it...It actually makes the keyboard look more substantial when you get used to it.  Don't let that little bit put you off the keyboard...If you want Topre but want something that'll cause less fatigue, variable is it.  The lighter keys are on your weaker fingers so it works out well for them and it lets you type, overall a bit lighter than you need to on an all 45g. 

[aref]

I'm an older guy who used to work as a writer/editor for decades. I've taken to writing novels. Just finished my first one the past December. Days writing last from morning into the evening. Nine-hour days are my shortest when writing; 12-hour days are close to my lengthiest days.

My typing speed varies from 65 to 100+ wpm: It really depends on how much of my subject I have set in my mind. I suppose when writing subject shortfalls, my speed may go down to 35 or so wpm.

My typing began using typewriters way back. And banging away on those old Remington mills all day, one managed to build considerable finger strength. Like I said, I'm an older guy. I've had 45-gram Topres on an 87U, two in fact, but sold them. I find them too light for me. I tend to hammer my key caps, a holdover from the old typewriter days.

I'm kind of intrigued by the HHKB; I've heard some say the 45g Topre switch feels different on the HHKB. I don't quite understand how they might feel different compared with an 87U; but I've never used one, so I really can't make a comparison. But I am really pleased with the 55-gram 87U board.

My hands tend to fatigue because of age. But I find 55g Topre switches to be something an age-equalizer for me. I had tried Cherry MX Red switches, and I found myself making too many accidental key actuations; same for MX Brown and Blue switches. Topre is the one switch that just works for me. I poked out a 485-page novel in five months, working day and night. And this doesn't take into account the 45 or so pages I killed. I used an SSK part of the time, but found my fingers fatigued after five or so hours of typing; then I'd go to the 55g 87U and continue writing for hours. The 87U/55g went from my second favorite KB to my number one keyboard. But, I still enjoy experimenting with KBs. By the way, I'm working on a second novel, a followup edition to the first one. I spent my life writing for others, not I get to do it for myself. I'm grateful to have the time to write for myself, I love writing.

I really enjoy using a good keyboard; and I'm grateful to have gotten into Topre switches. I'm appreciative for what I have. And I do enjoy keyboard talk on geekhack with others who are so interested in keyboard switches and performance. Forgive me if I've gone on ad nauseum.

[Linkbane]

Wow, what a journey. Although I'm a bit time-starved, what I can say is that the reason the HHKB is different is that its switches are mounted to the case rather than a metal plate; some like the feel and some prefer the other like on the FC660C. Both have their equal fans, I'd think.

[aref]

One day I may try an HHKB to satisfy my curiosity. The thing is, I don't want to negatively affect the great connection I have with my 87U KBs. I find the more I use the 87U, the more I enjoy using it and better the feel I have for these 55g Topre switches. I wonder if the FC660C has a similar feel to an HHKB. Some of the reports on HHKB is that the people using them kind of grow into them. And from my experience with Realforce, I can understand. I'm not sure that a 45g Topre will give me the feel I have with the company's 55g switch.

[Linkbane]

One day I may try an HHKB to satisfy my curiosity. The thing is, I don't want to negatively affect the great connection I have with my 87U KBs. I find the more I use the 87U, the more I enjoy using it and better the feel I have for these 55g Topre switches. I wonder if the FC660C has a similar feel to an HHKB. Some of the reports on HHKB is that the people using them kind of grow into them. And from my experience with Realforce, I can understand. I'm not sure that a 45g Topre will give me the feel I have with the company's 55g switch.

Well, if it helps the FC660C is supposed to have the same feel as a RF (some describe it as better, but I think it's subjective) because both are plate mounted. The HHKB will probably be the only departure.

[aref]

One day I may try an HHKB to satisfy my curiosity. The thing is, I don't want to negatively affect the great connection I have with my 87U KBs. I find the more I use the 87U, the more I enjoy using it and better the feel I have for these 55g Topre switches. I wonder if the FC660C has a similar feel to an HHKB. Some of the reports on HHKB is that the people using them kind of grow into them. And from my experience with Realforce, I can understand. I'm not sure that a 45g Topre will give me the feel I have with the company's 55g switch.

Well, if it helps the FC660C is supposed to have the same feel as a RF (some describe it as better, but I think it's subjective) because both are plate mounted. The HHKB will probably be the only departure.

I appreciate the information. It tells me that if I were to try or buy one, it should be an HHKB. I've owned 45-gram 87U KBs and am familiar with the feel, which is nice, but a bit too light for the way I type. Keyboard switches are such a personal-preference (as you said, subjective) that I shake my head when I read some posts where people condemn a particular switch or gram-weight because of its feel.

[1pq]

I'm an older guy who used to work as a writer/editor for decades. I've taken to writing novels. Just finished my first one the past December. Days writing last from morning into the evening. Nine-hour days are my shortest when writing; 12-hour days are close to my lengthiest days.

My typing speed varies from 65 to 100+ wpm: It really depends on how much of my subject I have set in my mind. I suppose when writing subject shortfalls, my speed may go down to 35 or so wpm.

My typing began using typewriters way back. And banging away on those old Remington mills all day, one managed to build considerable finger strength. Like I said, I'm an older guy. I've had 45-gram Topres on an 87U, two in fact, but sold them. I find them too light for me. I tend to hammer my key caps, a holdover from the old typewriter days.

I'm kind of intrigued by the HHKB; I've heard some say the 45g Topre switch feels different on the HHKB. I don't quite understand how they might feel different compared with an 87U; but I've never used one, so I really can't make a comparison. But I am really pleased with the 55-gram 87U board.

My hands tend to fatigue because of age. But I find 55g Topre switches to be something an age-equalizer for me. I had tried Cherry MX Red switches, and I found myself making too many accidental key actuations; same for MX Brown and Blue switches. Topre is the one switch that just works for me. I poked out a 485-page novel in five months, working day and night. And this doesn't take into account the 45 or so pages I killed. I used an SSK part of the time, but found my fingers fatigued after five or so hours of typing; then I'd go to the 55g 87U and continue writing for hours. The 87U/55g went from my second favorite KB to my number one keyboard. But, I still enjoy experimenting with KBs. By the way, I'm working on a second novel, a followup edition to the first one. I spent my life writing for others, not I get to do it for myself. I'm grateful to have the time to write for myself, I love writing.

I really enjoy using a good keyboard; and I'm grateful to have gotten into Topre switches. I'm appreciative for what I have. And I do enjoy keyboard talk on geekhack with others who are so interested in keyboard switches and performance. Forgive me if I've gone on ad nauseum.

I really enjoyed reading this. Thanks for posting! You can always tell when it's a writer behind that keyboard

[Linkbane]

One day I may try an HHKB to satisfy my curiosity. The thing is, I don't want to negatively affect the great connection I have with my 87U KBs. I find the more I use the 87U, the more I enjoy using it and better the feel I have for these 55g Topre switches. I wonder if the FC660C has a similar feel to an HHKB. Some of the reports on HHKB is that the people using them kind of grow into them. And from my experience with Realforce, I can understand. I'm not sure that a 45g Topre will give me the feel I have with the company's 55g switch.

Well, if it helps the FC660C is supposed to have the same feel as a RF (some describe it as better, but I think it's subjective) because both are plate mounted. The HHKB will probably be the only departure.

I appreciate the information. It tells me that if I were to try or buy one, it should be an HHKB. I've owned 45-gram 87U KBs and am familiar with the feel, which is nice, but a bit too light for the way I type. Keyboard switches are such a personal-preference (as you said, subjective) that I shake my head when I read some posts where people condemn a particular switch or gram-weight because of its feel.

Agreed with that. I will say that my preferences are probably different from you; I don't type as much long material, but there are a lot of short bursts of speed for speed tests (140-160 wpm now) so I prefer Blues and 45 g for now. While I might not dislike a heavier switch's feel, I'd probably get tired too quickly; I remember after trying Greens, typing at 120 or so, I would get tired after just half a minute. This was a long time ago when I was slower and didn't have the tendonitis now. 16 isn't too young, folks..

[demik]

child

[1pq]

From "What do you dislike about geekhack?"

Demik

Now I can see why you might say this )

[Linkbane]

child

unstoppable troll

[aref]

160 wpm is a speed I never reached. My best wpm is ~110, which is snail-like compared to many on geekhack; and I don't type at 115 for extended periods, unfortunately. If I were consistently typing over 100 wpm, I might have preferred a key switch lighter than 55 grams. Next keyboard I want to try, likely buy, is an HHKB--I'm really curious about the feel of Topre case-mounted, if I've got it right, switches. It's time to begin shoveling out from this ongoing snow storm--ugh!

[demik]

Rf switches are superior (imo) in feel to hhkb topre.

[aref]

Rf switches are superior (imo) in feel to hhkb topre.

This is interesting. I've read where some have said 45-gram Topre feels firmer on an HHKB compared with the same switch on a Realforce; but I'm sure they're not as firm as the 55-gram switches on my RF KBs. You've given me reason to rethink an HHKB. At $260 (EK's price), it would be another expensive trial keyboard; and I've bought/sold too many 'trial' keyboards. Thanks for comparing the feel of Topre switches on an HHKB with a Realforce. If I can try an HHKB, slim as it is, I'll do it; but I'll pass on buying one. I appreciate the feedback.

[neunelfer]

Rf switches are superior (imo) in feel to hhkb topre.

traitor

[Ch0b0]

I got the RF 55gs in and all I can say is I am quite pleased! It has just the right amount of resistance and feel. My WPM has jumped and I'm seeing less typing errors, to boot. Consider me a permanent member of the Topre cult

[Elrick]

Rf switches are superior (imo) in feel to hhkb topre.

traitor

Just being truthful.  If it hurts you'll get over it  .

[robertsig]

The closest Cherry switch to a Topre 55g is the Cherry Clear.  But they are also a mile apart.

The closet thing to a Topre 45g switch is the best membrane keyboard you've ever used, and then it's better than that.

[nathairtras]

Are you human? Or sasquatch?

Am Sasquatch, can confirm that Greens are necessary if Model M is too loud or too big.