Author Topic: Poker II for software development?  (Read 7227 times)

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Offline paco

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Poker II for software development?
« on: Tue, 11 February 2014, 19:57:11 »
I am a professional software developer. With age, reaching for the mouse while using a full keyboard as reasulted in a painful shoulder I have to deal with.

I am now using a trackball on the left side of my keyboard (while my `good` hand is the right one) and it has helped a lot.

Recently, I noticed that even reaching for the right side of the keyboard is becoming a chore.

I have once had a thing for small keyboards and bought a Deck 82 and a HHKB Lite 2.

The Deck 82, I never got over how difficult it was to type on its Cherry Blacks.

The HHKB Lite 2 was a very nice little keyboard, but eventually, I realized it just didn't cut it because of its layout.

I eventually settled for a Lenovo ThinkVantage keyboard because it was narrow (just a tad more than 12 inches) and had all the navigation keys available.

Though, that keyboard sucks big time. It has a lot of flex, the feel of the keys is horrible, etc..

After a lot of research, I set my sight on a Poker II.

But before I commit, I would like to know from fellow coders if I am about to make a mistake.

I found the manual. I know what the second layer is like. I _think_ the cording necessary to do PG-UP, PG-DOWN, HOME, END, and get to the arrow keys is sane. But is it?

At work, I use Visual Studio. I have tried to be conscious about the keyboard shortcuts I type to figure out if performing the same shortcuts on a Poker II would be feasible. For example, to select a word at the left of the cursor, I need to type CTRL-SHIFT-LEFT. This means on a Poker II, I would need to put my little finger on l-shift, my ring finger on  caps lock (which I always remap to ctrl), middle finger on A and my right thumb on the Fn key. I guess it would take some time to get accustomed to but just pretending to do both movements on my current keyboard results in less pain shoulder if I had a Poker II...

I am also a heavy emacs user. Cordings are basically C-..., M-x... which shouldn't be a problem IMO. Right?

So, what do you fellow coders thinks? Big mistake? I should go for a Keycool 84 (or similar), stick to a TKL, or just jump in for the Poker II?

Thanks!!

Offline riotonthebay

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Re: Poker II for software development?
« Reply #1 on: Tue, 11 February 2014, 20:10:14 »
I program almost exclusively in emacs on a Poker X (precursor to Poker II). I think the layout is fine, though I actually prefer the HHKB layout so maybe our tastes differ.

Mechanical keyboards also have good resale value. We're talking about a $25 mistake maybe if it doesn't work out. You've already made a bigger one by tying yourself to MSFT ;).

Offline phoenix1234

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Re: Poker II for software development?
« Reply #2 on: Tue, 11 February 2014, 20:37:52 »
I think for software development, we need to use a lot of key combinations to take full advantages of IDE like Visual Studio, Eclipse, etc. Even for text editor, we also need to have dedicated Page Up, Page Down, Home and End keys. The dedicated function row (F1-F12) is also very important when you use *nix systems. So my advise is to go with a standard 87TKL like (Filco Majestouch 2, Ducky Shine 2 TKL, Leopold 87, etc.) instead of Poker II.
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Offline tbc

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Re: Poker II for software development?
« Reply #3 on: Tue, 11 February 2014, 20:51:42 »
take a look at the fc660m and fc660c.

it's the arrowkey board people go to when hhkb fails in windows
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Offline Grimey

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Re: Poker II for software development?
« Reply #4 on: Tue, 11 February 2014, 20:59:39 »
Full time developer here working if Visual Studio (Vim bindings plugin) for the majority of time at work while using a Poker X.  This combination works out surprisingly well given my previous comfort with Vim and the requirement that our applications are done in .net.  So I would echo riotonthebay in concluding that this combination can work, though I guess you were asking about the Poker II specifically which I have not used but I hope this rambling was helpful.
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Offline daerid

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Re: Poker II for software development?
« Reply #5 on: Tue, 11 February 2014, 23:57:29 »
Been doing .NET for years. Spent a few months on an original Poker X a few years back, found it to be more than suitable. You shouldn't have a problem.

Offline naasfu

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Re: Poker II for software development?
« Reply #6 on: Wed, 12 February 2014, 01:39:34 »
Hm, are you guys using special key shortcuts or layouts for Visual Studio?

I've been using my Poker II for the past few days, and things are mostly fine except for selecting stuff like paco mentioned.  I do a lot line/region selection using the keyboard (eg, Home then Shift+End for a line, or Home then Shift+DownArrow several times then Shift+End for several lines), and so far I have to stop and think about what Fn combos I need to press. 

Also stepping through with the debugger using F10, F11, Shift+F11 using Fn combos isn't as convenient either.

I just started looking into using Vim, but its dual mode model is gonna take me awhile to get used to, haha.
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Offline tbc

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Re: Poker II for software development?
« Reply #7 on: Wed, 12 February 2014, 01:46:05 »
can't you configure the pn layer to be multi-key macros?

such as pn+1 = shift + fn + 1  to activate F1?

as long as your pn layer isn't completely populated, every combination is a maximum of two keys.
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Offline naasfu

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Re: Poker II for software development?
« Reply #8 on: Wed, 12 February 2014, 02:11:14 »
can't you configure the pn layer to be multi-key macros?

such as pn+1 = shift + fn + 1  to activate F1?

as long as your pn layer isn't completely populated, every combination is a maximum of two keys.
Ah I hadn't really played around with the Pn layer much so far.  I tried mapping Pn+':' (Home) to Shift+Home, and Pn+'-' (F11) to Shift+F11, and those work well.  This should help out a lot.  Thanks, tbc!
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Offline naasfu

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Re: Poker II for software development?
« Reply #9 on: Wed, 12 February 2014, 02:28:29 »
Mapping Pn+Home and Pn+End to Shift+Home and Shift+End actually didn't flow too well, since I'd have to switch between Pn and Fn to navigate and shift+select stuff.  What actually feels much more intuitive for me is:

Pn+WASD = arrow keys
Pn+Q = Home
Pn+E = End

That way I can navigate around by holding Pn, and if I need to select stuff, I just hold down Shift as well.  Very cool!

It's actually not much different than the default Fn layout, but somehow having Home/End on my left hand along with WASD feels much more natural.

edit:  More Pn navigation fun:

Pn + R = Page Up
Pn + F = Page Down
Pn + Z = Ctrl + Left arrow
Pn + C = Ctrl + Right arrow

I'd love to see what types of layouts other people use.  This is bad... now I'm beginning to want a fully programmable keyboard.
« Last Edit: Wed, 12 February 2014, 02:55:10 by naasfu »
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Offline ctbear

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Re: Poker II for software development?
« Reply #10 on: Wed, 12 February 2014, 10:10:07 »
I know you are an emacs user... But problems like this is exactly why I think Vim is superior. I do coding full time on an HHKB and never have problem about key combinations and shortcuts. The commands and motions of Vim are so optimized for efficiency that I rarely have to move my hands for anything.
Try and see how it compares with your emacs setup.

Offline daerid

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Re: Poker II for software development?
« Reply #11 on: Wed, 12 February 2014, 11:01:01 »
Hm, are you guys using special key shortcuts or layouts for Visual Studio?

I don't, but I also have really long fingers and crazy key combinations don't bother me, so that probably had something to do with it. Although the F9-F12 stuff during debugging got a little annoying, it wasn't unbearable.

Offline Britney Spears

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Re: Poker II for software development?
« Reply #12 on: Wed, 12 February 2014, 13:29:33 »
Full time developer here working if Visual Studio (Vim bindings plugin) for the majority of time at work while using a Poker X.  This combination works out surprisingly well given my previous comfort with Vim....

I work with quite a similar setup: JetBrains WebStorm (JavaScript IDE) in combination with their Vim plugin. My daily driver is a Ducky Mini (basically an ISO Poker) and this works out very well. 60% layout + Vim = efficiency, at least in my opinion. If the Vim plugin for Visual Studio is any good, give it a try. My Visual Studio days are long gone, so I have no chance of testing it myself.
I'm not so sure about a 60% layout without dedicated arrow keys outside of Vim, though. I sometimes struggle with text editing when writing longer e-mails in our mail client. Maybe it not as much a consequence of the 60% layout but more me being so used to Vim that I can no longer use a normal text editor.
But in the end you have to try it yourself. As others have already mentioned, the resale value of a Poker is not too bad.

Btw. tp4issue has not chimed in yet and told the OP to get an Ergdox. Weird!

Offline Grimey

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Re: Poker II for software development?
« Reply #13 on: Wed, 12 February 2014, 14:11:27 »
Full time developer here working if Visual Studio (Vim bindings plugin) for the majority of time at work while using a Poker X.  This combination works out surprisingly well given my previous comfort with Vim....

I work with quite a similar setup: JetBrains WebStorm (JavaScript IDE) in combination with their Vim plugin. My daily driver is a Ducky Mini (basically an ISO Poker) and this works out very well. 60% layout + Vim = efficiency, at least in my opinion. If the Vim plugin for Visual Studio is any good, give it a try. My Visual Studio days are long gone, so I have no chance of testing it myself.
I'm not so sure about a 60% layout without dedicated arrow keys outside of Vim, though. I sometimes struggle with text editing when writing longer e-mails in our mail client. Maybe it not as much a consequence of the 60% layout but more me being so used to Vim that I can no longer use a normal text editor.
But in the end you have to try it yourself. As others have already mentioned, the resale value of a Poker is not too bad.

Btw. tp4issue has not chimed in yet and told the OP to get an Ergdox. Weird!

The benefit I see for the Poker X is being able to toggle the right modifier cluster to be arrow keys.  Without those default arrow keys being present I would certainly get angry at try to navigate through bash history or something similar.
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Offline paco

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Re: Poker II for software development?
« Reply #14 on: Wed, 12 February 2014, 18:43:03 »
I program almost exclusively in emacs on a Poker X (precursor to Poker II). I think the layout is fine, though I actually prefer the HHKB layout so maybe our tastes differ.

See, I had a HHKB Lite 2 (not the Trope switch..). It was in the moment of my life where I was exclusively working with emacs in a unix environment. To me, having a keyboard with the Control key in place of the CapsLock and knowing PAGE-UP, DOWN, HOME, END, LEFT, RIGHT, etc, were all emacs commands that I could cord with CTRL-v, ALT-v, SHIFT-M-<, etc. made complete sense. I loved the idea of a miniature keyboard. But, after a while, it became apparent this didn't fly. I wasn't _always_ using emacs... sometimes I had to use other operating systems, etc.

The problem I see with most 60% keyboards is the emplacement of the key giving access to the other layer(s). I am grateful to all your answers and I don't want you to believe I am trolling, but I just cannot understand this love for the HHKB Pro 2. The Fn key is in such an awkward place... how are you supposed to perform any cording sanely? Plus, no programmability? I just don't get it...

I think for software development, we need to use a lot of key combinations to take full advantages of IDE like Visual Studio, Eclipse, etc. Even for text editor, we also need to have dedicated Page Up, Page Down, Home and End keys. The dedicated function row (F1-F12) is also very important when you use *nix systems. So my advise is to go with a standard 87TKL like (Filco Majestouch 2, Ducky Shine 2 TKL, Leopold 87, etc.) instead of Poker II.

Well, I don't know about that. That was my initial thinking and because of that I thought the best buy would be a Keycool 84. But, to me, there is something inelegant about such keyboards (I have a Deck 82 with a similar layout).

I went ahead and ordered a Poker II (non backlit, PBT). I figured if I managed to use emacs for over 10 years (and still do on a daily basis) with all the required cording, I don't see why I wouldn't be able to perform another set of cording to move around in a different environment. After analyzing the layout of all the 60% keyboards, I ended up liking the position of the Fn keys and the placement of the secondary layer of the Poker II the most. Plus, all the comments I read about that board are positive.

I will do my best to report back on my experience using that keyboard at work as a software dev.

Thanks for your help guys.

Offline paco

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Re: Poker II for software development?
« Reply #15 on: Thu, 20 February 2014, 20:54:08 »
I had ordered a Poker II from qtan last week. I received it today. That was very fast shipping!

Too bad the custom fees were so high. To put things in perspective, a Max Blackbird cost me 150$CND and I thought that was quite expensive for a keyboard. Customs cost me 30$CND for the Poker II, bringing the total price of that keyboard close to 170$CND... gulp!

The packaging was ridiculously good. Layers upon layers of protective materials. Took me a while to wrap it open: "okay.. the opening has to be on the top side. No. Bottom. No. Right. No. Left. .... Top? Fuuuuu!!"

I thought there was supposed to be a keycap puller, no? The box had the keyboard, usb cable and 6 keycaps (2 red, 2 blue and 2 green).

First thing I tried was to press on every key. Everything seems nice, EXCEPT the backspace key. It has a really annoying rattling sound. Any idea how I could fix this?

It is really not obvious to getting used to the Fn layer. I really have to stop and think about how to perform basic movements. But, I knew what I was getting into. I want to give myself a couple of weeks before deciding if this is too much work for my poor brain to accustom itself to.

Also, while typing this post on the, I realize the space bar is a little dull sounding too...

Anyway... first impression is that I really like the look, the size, but this thing is expensive, will take a (little I hope!) while to get accustomed to and some keys seem problematic.

I'll give more info as the journey goes forward. The goal is to use this at work doing software development...

If it doesn't work, I think I'll go ahead and buy a Realforce 87U. While I am spending my savings away in keyboards, why not go all the way... ;-)

Offline ideus

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Re: Poker II for software development?
« Reply #16 on: Thu, 20 February 2014, 21:20:14 »
I have some of the same "issues" with my Poker X, even after a year of daily use, it was just refreshing to have arrow keys in my FC660. The feeling was like the first breath you take after being free-diving for some minutes.

Offline cub3y

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Re: Poker II for software development?
« Reply #17 on: Fri, 21 February 2014, 02:55:15 »
I really love my Leopold FC660M for programming. Mind you I have been using Sublime Text 3 or Vim for coding for the last two years. If I was still doing .NET I would much prefer a TKL board. They are really not that much bigger in width than the Leopold FC660M/C and the dedicated function row will really help you while debugging code.

The only thing I find annoying on my Leopold (like literally the only thing) is that the back tick character "`" is on another layer as that key is used for ESC, backtick ` and tilde ~. I write a bit of markdown documentation and also while writing pull requests on github you use this character alot for inline and block code formatting.
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Offline naasfu

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Re: Poker II for software development?
« Reply #18 on: Fri, 21 February 2014, 05:52:17 »
I had ordered a Poker II from qtan last week. I received it today.
- My Poker II came with a cap puller.  I got the backlit version from MK.com.
- My board's space bar also makes a duller sound than the other keys, and the backspace does rattle a little as well.
- As I posted above, I experimented with the Pn layout that helped make things more sane for me.  Also, try out the  SpaceFN layout.  This layout was much more intuitive and comfortable for me, but there's a little wonkiness with timings (I've been using the AHK implementation in Windows) that may or may not be acceptable for you.
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Offline paldepind

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Re: Poker II for software development?
« Reply #19 on: Fri, 21 February 2014, 06:07:10 »
- My board's space bar also makes a duller sound than the other keys
Mine as well. I'm pretty sure it's due to the plastic stabilizers in both ends of the spacebar. And maybe it's because the spacebar is not PTB. But you have the backlight version without PTB so that can't be it. Unless the spacebar is of a third type of plastic. The stabilizers it must be :)

Offline tbc

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Re: Poker II for software development?
« Reply #20 on: Fri, 21 February 2014, 06:50:21 »
probly just because the spacebar is a larger key and therefore heavier and 'resonating' less
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Offline durandalx

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Re: Poker II for software development?
« Reply #21 on: Fri, 21 February 2014, 08:08:40 »
I use emacs everyday for software development and use lots of compact keyboards (e.g., Keycool 84, TKL, poker X).  It didn't take more than a day to adapt to the Fn layer on each board - keeping in mind that I only learned the bare minimum number of keys, like the arrows, the function (F1-F12) keys, and the escape key.  I do find dedicated arrows easier to use (I lock them to the right modifiers on the poker X), but I can also second naasfu's recommendation on SpaceFn: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=51069.0 since it made switching between multiple keyboard layouts easier.  Good luck!

Offline ideus

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Re: Poker II for software development?
« Reply #22 on: Fri, 21 February 2014, 08:14:59 »
How exactly can space fn be implemented? Is it a driver of software? I am using win 7 ultimate 64 bits.

Offline ideus

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Re: Poker II for software development?
« Reply #23 on: Fri, 21 February 2014, 08:24:27 »
I really love my Leopold FC660M for programming. Mind you I have been using Sublime Text 3 or Vim for coding for the last two years. If I was still doing .NET I would much prefer a TKL board. They are really not that much bigger in width than the Leopold FC660M/C and the dedicated function row will really help you while debugging code.

The only thing I find annoying on my Leopold (like literally the only thing) is that the back tick character "`" is on another layer as that key is used for ESC, backtick ` and tilde ~. I write a bit of markdown documentation and also while writing pull requests on github you use this character alot for inline and block code formatting.


I code for statistics using R and the Leopold FC660 has served me very well for that. I do not use that character though, You may reassign it to the upper layer using SharKeys or any similar program, if you are under windows.

Offline naasfu

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Re: Poker II for software development?
« Reply #24 on: Fri, 21 February 2014, 15:54:31 »
How exactly can space fn be implemented? Is it a driver of software? I am using win 7 ultimate 64 bits.
Ideally one installs this in the firmware for a programmable keyboard.  But I have neither programmable keyboard nor solder-fu skills, so there are some software implementations. 

For Windows, there's a set of AutoHotKey scripts that someone developed.  Check the OP of the SpaceFN thread.  That's what I've been using.  You have to install it on each PC you use, and it doesn't work via remote desktop.  I had to install it on the remote box, and then make sure I only have it enabled on either my local box or the remote box.
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Offline ideus

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Re: Poker II for software development?
« Reply #25 on: Fri, 21 February 2014, 15:58:00 »
Thank you for the tip. I will try it soon. I have read a lot of SpaceFn and I want to check if it is that great.

Offline spiceBar

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Re: Poker II for software development?
« Reply #26 on: Fri, 21 February 2014, 17:31:37 »
Thank you for the tip. I will try it soon. I have read a lot of SpaceFn and I want to check if it is that great.

Hello, I'm the guy who has created the SpaceFN layout.

I'm currently working on a similar layout, but this time it will not use space as a "Fn" key. So I hope it will be easier to implement and will meet less resistance (using space as a Fn key works, but it's not easy to convince people that it does).

This layout, like SpaceFN, essentially provides more intuitive and one-handed navigation keys for a 60% keyboard that does not have dedicated arrow keys (Poker X, Poker 2, HHKB, ...).

Actually, and it was not planned initially, this new layout works perfectly on the Poker 2! By this I mean that it can be programmed on the Poker 2 in 10 minutes. By chance, it does not interfere with any of the Poker 2 special keys or special features.

I have been working with this layout exclusively for more than a month now. Initially I was using a Poker X with Hasu's converter (which adds programmability to the Poker X) and an HHKB. For the last two weeks, I have been using it on a standard Poker 2, and it works very well.

I have been using it for long enough myself, so now I think it's OK to post it and get other people's feedback on it. I'll do that very soon.

Offline ideus

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Re: Poker II for software development?
« Reply #27 on: Fri, 21 February 2014, 17:35:26 »
Thank you for the tip. I will try it soon. I have read a lot of SpaceFn and I want to check if it is that great.

Hello, I'm the guy who has created the SpaceFN layout.

I'm currently working on a similar layout, but this time it will not use space as a "Fn" key. So I hope it will be easier to implement and will meet less resistance (using space as a Fn key works, but it's not easy to convince people that it does).

This layout, like SpaceFN, essentially provides more intuitive and one-handed navigation keys for a 60% keyboard that does not have dedicated arrow keys (Poker X, Poker 2, HHKB, ...).

Actually, and it was not planned initially, this new layout works perfectly on the Poker 2! By this I mean that it can be programmed on the Poker 2 in 10 minutes. By chance, it does not interfere with any of the Poker 2 special keys or special features.

I have been working with this layout exclusively for more than a month now. Initially I was using a Poker X with Hasu's converter (which adds programmability to the Poker X) and an HHKB. For the last two weeks, I have been using it on a standard Poker 2, and it works very well.

I have been using it for long enough myself, so now I think it's OK to post it and get other people's feedback on it. I'll do that very soon.





This was very interesting as well. I have a Poker X I am not using much now because of the fn layer does not meet my needs. This other new layout may be a good reason to buy either the Hasu's or a Poker II. Where we can get more detailed information on it?

Offline paco

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Re: Poker II for software development?
« Reply #28 on: Sun, 02 March 2014, 08:09:02 »
For the last week, I tried using the Poker II exclusively at work. I wrote new code in Visual Studio, I performed refactoring tasks, I manipulated windows around (e.g., WIN-key + arrow key), etc.

It just doesn't work out for me. There is a constant delay between my wish to perform an action and figuring out what the key combination should be. Three key combinations that now require four are a pain. Maybe I would need to force myself to the keyboard for a full month before it really sinks in. But I am now questioning myself on the virtue of using a 61-key keyboard for software dev. I have to admit it... it was a mistake.

One thing that could make the Poker II much better is to make the Fn-key different texture wise. Add in a groove or something so that you know you have your finger on that key and not the Alt key or the Pn key.

I'll put the keyboard up for sale.

Offline spiceBar

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Re: Poker II for software development?
« Reply #29 on: Sun, 02 March 2014, 13:02:40 »
For the last week, I tried using the Poker II exclusively at work. I wrote new code in Visual Studio, I performed refactoring tasks, I manipulated windows around (e.g., WIN-key + arrow key), etc.

It just doesn't work out for me. There is a constant delay between my wish to perform an action and figuring out what the key combination should be. Three key combinations that now require four are a pain. Maybe I would need to force myself to the keyboard for a full month before it really sinks in. But I am now questioning myself on the virtue of using a 61-key keyboard for software dev. I have to admit it... it was a mistake.

One thing that could make the Poker II much better is to make the Fn-key different texture wise. Add in a groove or something so that you know you have your finger on that key and not the Alt key or the Pn key.

I'll put the keyboard up for sale.

The basic problem here is that the default Fn layout of the Poker II is very poorly designed.

Maybe you could wait until I publish the layout I have designed for the Poker II. The keyboard is programmable, so its Fn layout can be totally redesigned.

The layout I have been working on allows an almost intuitive use of the arrow keys, that will be located on the right of the keyboard and not on the left as in the default layout. Home, End, PgUp and PgDn will also be located at intuitive locations around the arrows.

You left hand will not have any additional work. So chording with Shift and Ctrl will be business as usual.

Adapting to this layout is a matter of hours, not weeks. I use it to develop software, so it may work for you as well.

One advice about the Fn key is to remove it and to put it back in place upside down. It will have a totally different slope than the adjacent keys. That's what I do. The idea is that you can find it just by touch, and it is easier on the thumb because the rough edge of the key will not hit your thumb anymore.

Offline ideus

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Re: Poker II for software development?
« Reply #30 on: Sun, 02 March 2014, 13:21:44 »
For the last week, I tried using the Poker II exclusively at work. I wrote new code in Visual Studio, I performed refactoring tasks, I manipulated windows around (e.g., WIN-key + arrow key), etc.

It just doesn't work out for me. There is a constant delay between my wish to perform an action and figuring out what the key combination should be. Three key combinations that now require four are a pain. Maybe I would need to force myself to the keyboard for a full month before it really sinks in. But I am now questioning myself on the virtue of using a 61-key keyboard for software dev. I have to admit it... it was a mistake.

One thing that could make the Poker II much better is to make the Fn-key different texture wise. Add in a groove or something so that you know you have your finger on that key and not the Alt key or the Pn key.

I'll put the keyboard up for sale.

I had a similar experience myself last year, I tried a Poker X as my single board for work and for home. I just can't get accustomed to the chords.

Offline paco

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  • Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Re: Poker II for software development?
« Reply #31 on: Tue, 04 March 2014, 21:17:46 »
For the last week, I tried using the Poker II exclusively at work. I wrote new code in Visual Studio, I performed refactoring tasks, I manipulated windows around (e.g., WIN-key + arrow key), etc.

It just doesn't work out for me. There is a constant delay between my wish to perform an action and figuring out what the key combination should be. Three key combinations that now require four are a pain. Maybe I would need to force myself to the keyboard for a full month before it really sinks in. But I am now questioning myself on the virtue of using a 61-key keyboard for software dev. I have to admit it... it was a mistake.

One thing that could make the Poker II much better is to make the Fn-key different texture wise. Add in a groove or something so that you know you have your finger on that key and not the Alt key or the Pn key.

I'll put the keyboard up for sale.

The basic problem here is that the default Fn layout of the Poker II is very poorly designed.

Maybe you could wait until I publish the layout I have designed for the Poker II. The keyboard is programmable, so its Fn layout can be totally redesigned.

The layout I have been working on allows an almost intuitive use of the arrow keys, that will be located on the right of the keyboard and not on the left as in the default layout. Home, End, PgUp and PgDn will also be located at intuitive locations around the arrows.

You left hand will not have any additional work. So chording with Shift and Ctrl will be business as usual.

Adapting to this layout is a matter of hours, not weeks. I use it to develop software, so it may work for you as well.

One advice about the Fn key is to remove it and to put it back in place upside down. It will have a totally different slope than the adjacent keys. That's what I do. The idea is that you can find it just by touch, and it is easier on the thumb because the rough edge of the key will not hit your thumb anymore.

This is very interesting.

Though, I am not sure how you can redefine the Fn layer. I know the board is programmable. I have the manual, but I was under the impression the Fn layer could not be reprogrammed. The Pn layer can be programmed (it is its function), that I know.

You are also implying it is possible to program combinations (e.g., Space+b => Space)??

I have read about your SpaceFn layout proposition. Are you saying it is possible to implement that layout on a Poker II without installing a new controller?

Thanks.

Offline spiceBar

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Re: Poker II for software development?
« Reply #32 on: Tue, 04 March 2014, 23:30:46 »
For the last week, I tried using the Poker II exclusively at work. I wrote new code in Visual Studio, I performed refactoring tasks, I manipulated windows around (e.g., WIN-key + arrow key), etc.

It just doesn't work out for me. There is a constant delay between my wish to perform an action and figuring out what the key combination should be. Three key combinations that now require four are a pain. Maybe I would need to force myself to the keyboard for a full month before it really sinks in. But I am now questioning myself on the virtue of using a 61-key keyboard for software dev. I have to admit it... it was a mistake.

One thing that could make the Poker II much better is to make the Fn-key different texture wise. Add in a groove or something so that you know you have your finger on that key and not the Alt key or the Pn key.

I'll put the keyboard up for sale.

The basic problem here is that the default Fn layout of the Poker II is very poorly designed.

Maybe you could wait until I publish the layout I have designed for the Poker II. The keyboard is programmable, so its Fn layout can be totally redesigned.

The layout I have been working on allows an almost intuitive use of the arrow keys, that will be located on the right of the keyboard and not on the left as in the default layout. Home, End, PgUp and PgDn will also be located at intuitive locations around the arrows.

You left hand will not have any additional work. So chording with Shift and Ctrl will be business as usual.

Adapting to this layout is a matter of hours, not weeks. I use it to develop software, so it may work for you as well.

One advice about the Fn key is to remove it and to put it back in place upside down. It will have a totally different slope than the adjacent keys. That's what I do. The idea is that you can find it just by touch, and it is easier on the thumb because the rough edge of the key will not hit your thumb anymore.

This is very interesting.

Though, I am not sure how you can redefine the Fn layer. I know the board is programmable. I have the manual, but I was under the impression the Fn layer could not be reprogrammed. The Pn layer can be programmed (it is its function), that I know.

You are also implying it is possible to program combinations (e.g., Space+b => Space)??

I have read about your SpaceFn layout proposition. Are you saying it is possible to implement that layout on a Poker II without installing a new controller?

Thanks.

No, it is not possible to use SpaceFN on the Poker 2 without a software driver on the computer or some hardware mod.

However the Fn layer on the Poker 2 is definitely reprogrammable.

Some time ago I was working on a layout similar to SpaceFN but that does not use the space bar. After two weeks using it on two programmable keyboards, I realized it could be done on the Poker 2 as well. I have ordered a Poker 2, and indeed it works!

You reprogram the Fn layer by programming Fn+key. Normally you need to press Pn+Fn+key to get the function you have programmed, but the Poker 2 has a special mode that turns the Pn mode permanently on. In this mode, the key you have programmed as Fn+key will be accessible by... Fn+key.

Example: let's reprogram Fn+P to do Home.
- Fn+Ctrl (enter programming mode, the right LED blinks)
- Fn+P ("I want to program the Fn+P key")
- Fn+; (this is how you do Home on the default Fn layer)
- Pn ("I have finished programming this key")
- Fn+Ctrl (exit programming mode)

Now when you press Pn+P, you get Home.

Let's turn the Pn mode permanently on: press Fn+Shift (right-side Shift). The LED at the left of the space bar lights up.

Now press Fn+P => it does Home.

You can still access the function of the default Fn layer by pressing Fn+Pn+key. For example you can still toggle backlighting with Fn+Pn+V.

To cancel the programming you have done on a key, just reprogram it to do itself (I don't know if there is a simpler method):

- Fn+Ctrl (enter programming mode, the right LED blinks)
- Fn+P ("I want to program the Fn+P key")
- Fn+P (itself)
- Pn ("I have finished programming this key")
- Fn+Ctrl (exit programming mode)

I'm going to contact you by personal message and tell you a little bit more.
« Last Edit: Wed, 05 March 2014, 02:41:28 by spiceBar »