Author Topic: Ghost Review - review anything to do with Ghost switches!  (Read 7332 times)

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Offline berserkfan

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Ghost Review - review anything to do with Ghost switches!
« on: Mon, 17 February 2014, 21:15:24 »
Would anybody like to share his experiences with ghost switches?

Things like Ghost black, ghost red, ghost brown...

(For those who do not know, ghost-something is the term used to refer to a Cherry Clear spring matched with another Cherry MX slider.)

My theory is that these are supposed to be quieter, by preventing bottoming. However, my experiences trying them on Cherry PCB-mounted keyboard isn't that fantastic. They feel pretty similar to black/heavy springs. I wonder if it makes a difference when you actually lay out an entire plate mounted keyboard with them and use under real conditions.
Most of the modding can be done on your own once you break through the psychological barriers.

Offline Shikarikato

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Re: Ghost Review - review anything to do with Ghost switches!
« Reply #1 on: Mon, 17 February 2014, 22:04:30 »
Would anybody like to share his experiences with ghost switches?

Things like Ghost black, ghost red, ghost brown...

(For those who do not know, ghost-something is the term used to refer to a Cherry Clear spring matched with another Cherry MX slider.)

My theory is that these are supposed to be quieter, by preventing bottoming. However, my experiences trying them on Cherry PCB-mounted keyboard isn't that fantastic. They feel pretty similar to black/heavy springs. I wonder if it makes a difference when you actually lay out an entire plate mounted keyboard with them and use under real conditions.
Wouldn't Ghost Red be the same as Ghost Black since they have the same slider, but different springs?

Offline ebacho

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Re: Ghost Review - review anything to do with Ghost switches!
« Reply #2 on: Tue, 18 February 2014, 00:20:19 »
Would anybody like to share his experiences with ghost switches?

Things like Ghost black, ghost red, ghost brown...

(For those who do not know, ghost-something is the term used to refer to a Cherry Clear spring matched with another Cherry MX slider.)

My theory is that these are supposed to be quieter, by preventing bottoming. However, my experiences trying them on Cherry PCB-mounted keyboard isn't that fantastic. They feel pretty similar to black/heavy springs. I wonder if it makes a difference when you actually lay out an entire plate mounted keyboard with them and use under real conditions.
Wouldn't Ghost Red be the same as Ghost Black since they have the same slider, but different springs?

You're correct.  Same would apply for Blues/Greens, I believe.

Offline berserkfan

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Re: Ghost Review - review anything to do with Ghost switches!
« Reply #3 on: Tue, 18 February 2014, 00:40:23 »
That's true. The only way to mod that would be to cut the spring so that 'reds' are lighter than 'blacks'.

The main difference in the Clear spring seems to be the way it is made, such that the spring offers more resistance down.

IN any case I remain very curious about the different variants of the ghost switches.
Most of the modding can be done on your own once you break through the psychological barriers.

Offline jacobolus

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Re: Ghost Review - review anything to do with Ghost switches!
« Reply #4 on: Wed, 19 February 2014, 20:26:45 »
The main difference in the Clear spring seems to be the way it is made, such that the spring offers more resistance down.
I’m still unconvinced that the slight variation in spring pitch has significant effect.

The main thing about the clear spring is that it has a slightly shorter “free length” than the other MX springs. Thus it is less compressed when the switch is in its resting position. But the spring is also stiffer than MX red/brown/blue springs. As a result, it increases in force faster than those as it goes further down.

Hopefully this can be properly measured in the not-too-distant future.

Offline Melvang

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Re: Ghost Review - review anything to do with Ghost switches!
« Reply #5 on: Thu, 20 February 2014, 01:08:19 »
The main difference in the Clear spring seems to be the way it is made, such that the spring offers more resistance down.
I’m still unconvinced that the slight variation in spring pitch has significant effect.

The main thing about the clear spring is that it has a slightly shorter “free length” than the other MX springs. Thus it is less compressed when the switch is in its resting position. But the spring is also stiffer than MX red/brown/blue springs. As a result, it increases in force faster than those as it goes further down.

Hopefully this can be properly measured in the not-too-distant future.

Spring pitch has a very large bearing on force to push down.  This coupled with the shorter length is why it is very slightly lighter with a linear stem than a black but bottoms out at a higher force.  The more coils and smaller wire gauge the lighter the spring.  The reason the more coils makes it lighter is for 2 reasons.

1.  There is more length so the same amount of compression happens over a longer distance of wire.  To see this for yourself take a metal ruler and hold one end and the middle and try and bend it.  Now hold it on both ends and do the same.  It bends a lot easier.  Same thing with a spring with more coils.
2.  Smaller wire gauge will make the spring lighter for obvious reasons.

Now with the clear spring being less coils that makes it stiffer.  So why does it have a slightly lower actuation force?  Because of the shorter overall length it has less preload.  When you have a spring in the housing it is already compressed.  Springs are rated in a specified amount of force per unit length of compression or extension.  This builds over the travel.  Say a spring has a total compression of 6 inches and is rated at 1 pound per inch it will take 2 pounds to get it down to 2 inches and so on and so forth.  The reason they ramp up quicker is because of the shorter overall length thus the force to compress ramps up a little quicker.  But all MX springs are compressed to the same length once they are inside the housing so on a clear spring you are compressing it a smaller percentage of the overall travel.
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Offline jacobolus

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Re: Ghost Review - review anything to do with Ghost switches!
« Reply #6 on: Thu, 20 February 2014, 03:55:02 »
Spring pitch has a very large bearing on force to push down.
What I mean is, I doubt that the slight variation in spring pitch *from one side of the MX clear spring to the other side* has much effect. Mkawa seems to think that this has a substantial effect, but I am skeptical.

Obviously changing the spring pitch in a spring, overall, has a large effect on the stiffness of the spring.

The rest of your comment is just repeating what I said, in a slightly more elaborate way. :-)
« Last Edit: Thu, 20 February 2014, 03:56:59 by jacobolus »

Offline berserkfan

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Re: Ghost Review - review anything to do with Ghost switches!
« Reply #7 on: Thu, 20 February 2014, 10:00:27 »
Thank you very much Melvang; that was a superb explanation about how springs work.

Based on what you're saying, clear springs seem to be the best for me. The keys will be easy to depress, but not easy to bottom which is quieter. No wonder I like clears.

As I have never used a non-clear stem on clear springs, I don't know how that might fare. Now you've got me interested!
Most of the modding can be done on your own once you break through the psychological barriers.

Offline Melvang

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Re: Ghost Review - review anything to do with Ghost switches!
« Reply #8 on: Thu, 20 February 2014, 10:05:26 »
Thank you very much Melvang; that was a superb explanation about how springs work.

Based on what you're saying, clear springs seem to be the best for me. The keys will be easy to depress, but not easy to bottom which is quieter. No wonder I like clears.

As I have never used a non-clear stem on clear springs, I don't know how that might fare. Now you've got me interested!

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=50827.0

Plus my orbweaver has reds on WASD and stock clears everywhere else.  I love this combination for my game pad.
OG Kishsaver, Razer Orbweaver clears and reds with blue LEDs, and Razer Naga Epic.   "Great minds crawl in the same sewer"  Uncle Rich
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Offline Vloshko

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Re: Ghost Review - review anything to do with Ghost switches!
« Reply #9 on: Thu, 22 March 2018, 20:19:38 »
I hope me necroing this thread doesn't bother anyone. But as far as I can tell this is the only thread on GH dedicated to ghost switches.

Does anyone have a more accurate option than https://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=1408 for obtaining MX Clear Springs?

Offline SpAmRaY

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Re: Ghost Review - review anything to do with Ghost switches!
« Reply #10 on: Thu, 22 March 2018, 20:28:38 »
I hope me necroing this thread doesn't bother anyone. But as far as I can tell this is the only thread on GH dedicated to ghost switches.

Does anyone have a more accurate option than https://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=1408 for obtaining MX Clear Springs?
You can sometimes find people in classifieds selling their stock springs after modding clears to ergo clears.

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