How to purchase the right Alps board

[Rena]

Copied from simple questions thread because I'd like a dedicated thread to discuss this:

how would I go about obtaining a good alps keyboard? I was interested in the white alps,  but I'm aware of how many different color switches there are and have no idea which are the best choice, or which of those are even available anymore (would like to find blue alps but it doubt that will happen). I've heard mostly about the Dell AT101W, which has black alps that apparently aren't very popular for typing, and the Focus FK-2001 which the majority of those boards out there don't even have real white alps. Right now whites seem the most likely to be available and the better choice for typing but I have no idea about these kinds of boards at all.

The problem is there are so many switches out there, and even on individual models there can be a number of different types of switches it could have. I feel like people find these things more often locally, in general.

[demik]

the right one for what?

[CPTBadAss]

The problem with a lot of Alps stuff is that there is a huge variety of switches. I got real complicated white Alps in a Focus FK2001. So I think you read some bad information somewhere. The Dell AT101W is what I started on and I think $30 is a good deal. Anyways, I think you should definitely go make a new topic.

well I hope it wasn't bad information. On the deskthority wiki page for the FK-2001 it says that models without the windows keys have the real complicated white alps and possibly real blue switches, while those with the windows keys don't use real alps, or sometimes simplified blues (another imitation?). Here's the source - http://deskthority.net/wiki/Focus_FK-2001

Anyway, I would be glad to make a thread where we could continue discussion. Give me one moment, posting from my tablet right now.

Again, you can find FK2001s with real white alps. I had one.

And yes, let's migrate this to a new thread.

The problem with a lot of Alps stuff is that there is a huge variety of switches. I got real complicated white Alps in a Focus FK2001. So I think you read some bad information somewhere. The Dell AT101W is what I started on and I think $30 is a good deal. Anyways, I think you should definitely go make a new topic.

well I hope it wasn't bad information. On the deskthority wiki page for the FK-2001 it says that models without the windows keys have the real complicated white alps and possibly real blue switches, while those with the windows keys don't use real alps, or sometimes simplified blues (another imitation?). Here's the source - http://deskthority.net/wiki/Focus_FK-2001

Anyway, I would be glad to make a thread where we could continue discussion. Give me one moment, posting from my tablet right now.

The problem with a lot of Alps stuff is that there is a huge variety of switches. I got real complicated white Alps in a Focus FK2001. So I think you read some bad information somewhere. The Dell AT101W is what I started on and I think $30 is a good deal. Anyways, I think you should definitely go make a new topic.

So how would I go about obtaining a good alps keyboard? I was interested in the white alps,  but I'm aware of how many different color switches there are and have no idea which are the best choice, or which of those are even available anymore (would like to find blue alps but it doubt that will happen). I've heard mostly about the Dell AT101W, which has black alps that apparently aren't very popular for typing, and the Focus FK-2001 which the majority of those boards out there don't even have real white alps. Right now whites seem the most likely to be available and the better choice for typing but I have no idea about these kinds of boards at all.

I would have liked to create a thread for this to possibly instigate more discussion but there's already a couple threads pertaining to alps on the first two pages so I wasn't sure.

I recommend getting an Dell AT101W or Focus FK-2001 like you said. If you want to make a thread go ahead? And you can buy them on eBay.

So how would I go about obtaining a good alps keyboard? I was interested in the white alps,  but I'm aware of how many different color switches there are and have no idea which are the best choice, or which of those are even available anymore (would like to find blue alps but it doubt that will happen). I've heard mostly about the Dell AT101W, which has black alps that apparently aren't very popular for typing, and the Focus FK-2001 which the majority of those boards out there don't even have real white alps. Right now whites seem the most likely to be available and the better choice for typing but I have no idea about these kinds of boards at all.

I would have liked to create a thread for this to possibly instigate more discussion but there's already a couple threads pertaining to alps on the first two pages so I wasn't sure.

I recommend getting an Dell AT101W or Focus FK-2001 like you said. If you want to make a thread go ahead? And you can buy them on eBay.

I was looking on eBay. I found a couple listings for the Dell one just fine, about $30 (is that a good price used?) but I still wasn't sure if I'd like the black alps so much after hearing how many others disliked them. The only two listings I could find of the Focus were the ones with the Windows key, which to my understanding do not use even real alps switches but instead imitations. Most all other alps boards I tried searching for that were on the deskthority wiki I couldn't find on eBay. I'm really not sure what else to do, but I'm still interested in the white alps unless, perhaps, the green alps are available somewhere too, or something.

[jacobolus]

Spend some time poking around the Deskthority wiki. There’s a pretty good description of what keyboards have which switches, and pictures showing how to identify different types of switches.

When looking on ebay, try to find keyboards that have a picture showing a switch, or if there is none, ask the seller to take one.

What kind of personal preferences do you have w/r/t keyswitches? It’s pretty impossible to offer advice without knowing anything about what you like.

There have been at least 3-4 FK-2001s without windows keys / with complicated white Alps in the past about 3 weeks. If you wait a week or two, at least one will probably pop up.

[fohat.digs]

Black Alps can be very nice if you get a good Dell AT101. There are a lot of bad ones out there, but a good one is excellent.

The early Focus 2001s are dandy, look for one without Windows keys.

If you have an ADB-to-USB adapter, the old Apple Extended Keyboards (1 & 2) are extremely well-made and I prefer the original AEK to the AEK2 with the dampened switches. That is a $25 adapter readily available on ebay.

Otherwise, you are right, it is a crap shoot and depends a lot on luck.

[Rena]

Spend some time poking around the Deskthority wiki. There’s a pretty good description of what keyboards have which switches.

When looking on ebay, try to find keyboards that have a picture showing a switch, or if there is none, ask the seller to take one.

What kind of personal preferences do you have w/r/t keyswitches? It’s pretty impossible to offer advice without knowing anything about what you like.

I have experience with buckling spring, MX blue and brown, and topre. The buckling springs took some getting used to their weight but in the end I could tolerate it. I couldn't say which of those I prefer most but I did enjoy them all.

the right one for what?

the right one I'll be satisfied with. After reading about them some, the blues or greens seemed like the best although I doubt I will ever find those, so I'm thinking complicated whites would be best. In the end I have no idea.

[Rena]

Black Alps can be very nice if you get a good Dell AT101. There are a lot of bad ones out there, but a good one is excellent.

The early Focus 2001s are dandy, look for one without Windows keys.

If you have an ADB-to-USB adapter, the old Apple Extended Keyboards (1 & 2) are extremely well-made and I prefer the original AEK to the AEK2 with the dampened switches. That is a $25 adapter readily available on ebay.

Otherwise, you are right, it is a crap shoot and depends a lot on luck.

when you say a good AT101 do you mean in regards to its model, or its condition? I was looking at the AT101W, and in the listings they seemed to be in pretty nice condition and they were only ~$30

[fohat.digs]

when you say a good AT101 do you mean in regards to its model, or its condition? I was looking at the AT101W, and in the listings they seemed to be in pretty nice condition and they were only ~$30

They vary wildly, and looks are not a reliable indicator of feel. I wish I knew how to tell a good one from a bad one without testing it.

[Rena]

when you say a good AT101 do you mean in regards to its model, or its condition? I was looking at the AT101W, and in the listings they seemed to be in pretty nice condition and they were only ~$30

They vary wildly, and looks are not a reliable indicator of feel. I wish I knew how to tell a good one from a bad one without testing it.

I think I understand what you mean. I've read that blacks wear down over time due to friction in the key travel, correct? I could imagine that influencing typing feeling although if I'm ordering online I guess there's really nothing I could do to know for sure. The listings I was looking at claimed to be manufacturer refurbished, if that means anything?

[jacobolus]

If you’re in a hurry, here’s an NTC KB-6251EA with complicated white Alps for $114 OBO shipped: http://www.ebay.com/itm/200990279251

[Pacifist]

Black Alps can be very nice if you get a good Dell AT101. There are a lot of bad ones out there, but a good one is excellent.

The early Focus 2001s are dandy, look for one without Windows keys.

If you have an ADB-to-USB adapter, the old Apple Extended Keyboards (1 & 2) are extremely well-made and I prefer the original AEK to the AEK2 with the dampened switches. That is a $25 adapter readily available on ebay.

Otherwise, you are right, it is a crap shoot and depends a lot on luck.

Yea I think I got a dud with my NIB one, but the switches are starting to feel better after breaking them in.

[Rena]

If you’re in a hurry, here’s an NTC KB-6251EA with complicated white Alps for $114 OBO shipped: http://www.ebay.com/itm/200990279251

that certainly looks very nice, especially with the double shot caps, although I'm not so sure I'm ready to spend $115 on just white alps. Unless this is how much these kinds of boards cost usually. Either way I'll consider that but I still intend to look around some more.

[jacobolus]

If you wait a week or two, you can probably find something similar for $50-60. But if you want something *right now*...

[Rena]

If you wait a week or two, you can probably find something similar for $50-60. But if you want something *right now*...

no, I definitely don't need any of this right now unless there's an urgently great deal somewhere. I'll just get something as soon as I find a good offer. I guess I'll look around more for the model you linked too.

[johndavis33]

I'm in the exact same boat as you. I've been checking thrift stores around my area lately because they will sometimes have old mechanical keyboards.

If you're absolutely sure you'll like white alps, then I'd reccomend buying an Omnikey from this guy
http://www.northgate-keyboard-repair.com/

As far as I can tell, the Northgate Omnikey seems to be the best alps board you can get, and I hear this guy sells ones that he's refurbished from $140 all the way up to just south of $250 for ones with blue alps.

[Rena]

I'm in the exact same boat as you. I've been checking thrift stores around my area lately because they will sometimes have old mechanical keyboards.

If you're absolutely sure you'll like white alps, then I'd reccomend buying an Omnikey from this guy
http://www.northgate-keyboard-repair.com/

As far as I can tell, the Northgate Omnikey seems to be the best alps board you can get, and I hear this guy sells ones that he's refurbished from $140 all the way up to just south of $250 for ones with blue alps.

I'm not certain I will like them but after reading around it seems like I'd prefer them to blacks (although I'll probably still order that AT101W as well). I was aware of the omnikey but they're all quite expensive. If I can't find any for cheap I'll consider buying from that guy. Thanks for showing me it.

[fohat.digs]

I think I understand what you mean. I've read that blacks wear down over time due to friction in the key travel, correct? I could imagine that influencing typing feeling although if I'm ordering online I guess there's really nothing I could do to know for sure. The listings I was looking at claimed to be manufacturer refurbished, if that means anything?

I got one new in the late-1990s with a Dell system and used it for several years until the keys started getting shiny. I set it aside for several more years, and it was still very nice when I got it back out.

However, I have bought others that looked pristine but felt terrible.

I keep my gear clean, and don't smoke or eat or drink at the keyboard, but it is still hard to predict.

PS- buy a Griffin iMate for $25 and experiment with Apple Extended Keyboards.

[Rena]

I think I understand what you mean. I've read that blacks wear down over time due to friction in the key travel, correct? I could imagine that influencing typing feeling although if I'm ordering online I guess there's really nothing I could do to know for sure. The listings I was looking at claimed to be manufacturer refurbished, if that means anything?

I got one new in the late-1990s with a Dell system and used it for several years until the keys started getting shiny. I set it aside for several more years, and it was still very nice when I got it back out.

However, I have bought others that looked pristine but felt terrible.

I keep my gear clean, and don't smoke or eat or drink at the keyboard, but it is still hard to predict.

PS- buy a Griffin iMate for $25 and experiment with Apple Extended Keyboards.

I understand what you mean you say some feel terrible, but I don't exactly understand how or rather in what way it does. I guess when I order one I'll just have to hope for the best.

Also I have been looking for the apple extended keyboard for a while now, although the only ones I've found for sale are the AEK II (which I don't want since they use the dampened whites; I want the salmon switches in the first one instead). Haven't heard of the Griffin iMate, I'll look into that.

[fohat.digs]

"Feel" is very subjective and emotional, but there is uneven friction or scratchiness that is hard to articulate, but very real.

AEKs don't sell for much more money than AEK2s, but only turn up once every month or 2 instead of twice a week, and often have had dead switches, in my experience. I prefer the orange switches to pink/salmon, but the jury is out on that, and/or whether there is really any difference at all.

There are plenty of people who prefer the dampened creams in the AEK2, don't count them out.

For any of the old Apple ADB keyboards you will need one of these, a good thing to have around anyway:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Griffin-iMate-ADB-to-USB-adapter-BRAND-NEW-/360863571305?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5405251d69

[Daniel Beardsmore]

As far as I can tell, the Northgate Omnikey seems to be the best alps board you can get, and I hear this guy sells ones that he's refurbished from $140 all the way up to just south of $250 for ones with blue alps.

Wait, this is the guy who swears blind that white and blue Alps are the same?

[Daniel Beardsmore]

If you’re in a hurry, here’s an NTC KB-6251EA with complicated white Alps for $114 OBO shipped: http://www.ebay.com/itm/200990279251

Just as a note, that's probably got a plastic plate. $114 is a lot for a keyboard with a plastic mounting plate! It's a nice keyboard though. (The rare Omron version did use a metal plate; I haven't seen a metal plate Alps version yet though.)

[Rena]

"Feel" is very subjective and emotional, but there is uneven friction or scratchiness that is hard to articulate, but very real.

AEKs don't sell for much more money than AEK2s, but only turn up once every month or 2 instead of twice a week, and often have had dead switches, in my experience. I prefer the orange switches to pink/salmon, but the jury is out on that, and/or whether there is really any difference at all.

There are plenty of people who prefer the dampened creams in the AEK2, don't count them out.

For any of the old Apple ADB keyboards you will need one of these, a good thing to have around anyway:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Griffin-iMate-ADB-to-USB-adapter-BRAND-NEW-/360863571305?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5405251d69

the reason I wanted to try alps was because I wanted a new experience from cherry MX, topre, and membrane keys and I had heard around that the dampened whites felt very similar to rubber dome, and from my understanding of the mechanism I can imagine why.

And speaking of deals appearing I've been wondering something. Does everyone, for the most part, get these old keyboards from eBay? Like is that the best place to look for these kinds of things? Or are there better or other places to consider too?

[Rena]

If you’re in a hurry, here’s an NTC KB-6251EA with complicated white Alps for $114 OBO shipped: http://www.ebay.com/itm/200990279251

Just as a note, that's probably got a plastic plate. $114 is a lot for a keyboard with a plastic mounting plate! It's a nice keyboard though. (The rare Omron version did use a metal plate; I haven't seen a metal plate Alps version yet though.)

pardon my ignorance but what's the difference between the plates, and how would someone feel this difference when typing?

[johndavis33]

If you’re in a hurry, here’s an NTC KB-6251EA with complicated white Alps for $114 OBO shipped: http://www.ebay.com/itm/200990279251

Just as a note, that's probably got a plastic plate. $114 is a lot for a keyboard with a plastic mounting plate! It's a nice keyboard though. (The rare Omron version did use a metal plate; I haven't seen a metal plate Alps version yet though.)

pardon my ignorance but what's the difference between the plates, and how would someone feel this difference when typing?

http://deskthority.net/wiki/Switch_mount

Most keyboards that are worth your while are mounted on metal plates. It provides a more "solid" feeling. This is esspeccially important if you're using stiffer switches, as you amy be able to feel the board shift and flex underneath you as you type which no one wants.

[johndavis33]

As far as I can tell, the Northgate Omnikey seems to be the best alps board you can get, and I hear this guy sells ones that he's refurbished from $140 all the way up to just south of $250 for ones with blue alps.

Wait, this is the guy who swears blind that white and blue Alps are the same?

Yeah, I think so. He still seems to do good work on the keyboards.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

I take umbrage at the idea that he's playing to what he perceives is a misconception just to rip people off. Either blue Alps is a different, rarer switch and therefore worth more, or it's just a white switch with different dye, therefore worth the same. You cannot rant about how stupid people are for thinking they're different switches, yet also charge more for one than the other. You can't have it both ways. Hopefully the idea that he charges more for blue Alps is itself the mistake! (Though in fact, blue Alps is indeed rarer, and most definitely a different switch, although we don't have conclusive proof yet that it feels better, or a clear idea as to what would have been changed.)

As for a plastic plate — I suspect it actually improves switch feel by taking up some of the bottoming out impact in tactile switches (linear switches cushion your fingers better as the force does not drop after actuation). I don't have any particular preference — I just felt that the price seemed excessive considering that it most likely cost less to make than a metal plate keyboard, and that not everyone would want a plastic plate. It's a nice keyboard; I just don't like the layout and lack of Windows keys.

A plastic plate will also dampen the sound, which is good or bad depending on how you feel about the noise level that Alps switches generate!

[fohat.digs]

Wait, this is the guy who swears blind that white and blue Alps are the same?

Yes, Bob Tibbetts in New York.

He has been buying, selling, repairing, and refurbishing Northgates for years and is considered a master at it.

Perhaps he knows more about the keyboards themselves than about the arcane details of the switches.

[fohat.digs]

the reason I wanted to try alps was because I wanted a new experience from cherry MX, topre, and membrane keys and I had heard around that the dampened whites felt very similar to rubber dome, and from my understanding of the mechanism I can imagine why.

Does everyone, for the most part, get these old keyboards from eBay?

Dampened Alps feel like Alps, only dampened. No mechanical switch feels like a rubber dome collapsing, except it the most general way. The dampening was probably intended more to reduce sound than feel.

Ebay is a good source, although at the bottom end of the spectrum shipping is as much or more than the board itself.

If you keep an eye on salvage stores, thrift stores, and yard sales you can often find decent old boards <$5

[Daniel Beardsmore]

Matias quiet click (dampened, non-click, despite the name) switches do feel a lot like the NMB-made Dell RT7D50 rubber dome keyboards; I forget now, but I imagine that the Matias switches were noticeably lighter.

Rubber domes have a wide range of feel, and the Dell RT7D50 keyboards have exceptionally sharp tactility for domes. It's not a particularly nice keyboard, but I preferred it over the Dell L100 as it was a lot less spongy. The most tactile dome keyboards do have a strong resemblance to Alps-style switches. At the other extreme, there are rubber dome keyboards that don't even feel tactile at all, just a heap of mush.

[jacobolus]

(Though in fact, blue Alps is indeed rarer, and most definitely a different switch, although we don't have conclusive proof yet that it feels better, or a clear idea as to what would have been changed.)

What do you mean “conclusive prove yet that it feels better”? It feels different, and some (most?) people prefer it. There’s no way to get “conclusive proof” about something subjective like keyswitch feel.

Personally, I like the lighter spring of the blue Alps, but I also like the sharper click sound of the white Alps click leaf.

As for a plastic plate — I suspect it actually improves switch feel by taking up some of the bottoming out impact in tactile switches

Personally I don’t find it makes much difference in feeling, though maybe there’s a sound difference, and probably in overall feeling of rigidity/stability when you pick the keyboard up, flex it, etc.

[jacobolus]

Matias quiet click (dampened, non-click, despite the name) switches do feel a lot like the NMB-made Dell RT7D50 rubber dome keyboards; I forget now, but I imagine that the Matias switches were noticeably lighter.

Noticeably lighter than what? Both types of Matias switches feel about the same w/r/t force as white or orange or dampened cream or yellow Alps, which is a bit more force than green or blue Alps, and less force than linear cream or brown Alps.

I’d guess most rubber dome boards take less force, but some might take more. Dunno..

[jacobolus]

I take umbrage at the idea that he's playing to what he perceives is a misconception just to rip people off. Either blue Alps is a different, rarer switch and therefore worth more, or it's just a white switch with different dye, therefore worth the same. You cannot rant about how stupid people are for thinking they're different switches, yet also charge more for one than the other.

It sounds like he sells the ones with blue switches for more, because people want them and they are rarer, and will still sell at that higher price, but at the same time he tries to convince prospective buyers that they’d be just as happy with the cheaper white-switch boards.

That’s not trying to “rip people off”.

[Rena]

the reason I wanted to try alps was because I wanted a new experience from cherry MX, topre, and membrane keys and I had heard around that the dampened whites felt very similar to rubber dome, and from my understanding of the mechanism I can imagine why.

Does everyone, for the most part, get these old keyboards from eBay?

Dampened Alps feel like Alps, only dampened. No mechanical switch feels like a rubber dome collapsing, except it the most general way. The dampening was probably intended more to reduce sound than feel.

Ebay is a good source, although at the bottom end of the spectrum shipping is as much or more than the board itself.

If you keep an eye on salvage stores, thrift stores, and yard sales you can often find decent old boards <$5

Oh okay, I'm still learning about this stuff so I apologize for saying something like that.

I've been looking at those Matias keyboards too. They are pretty expensive though, and I'm really not sure what kind of alps switch they even use. I know some use dampened, in their quiet models, but none of their specification sections say exactly which alps switch it uses. I'm guessing whites, but I have no idea.

[Shayde]

the reason I wanted to try alps was because I wanted a new experience from cherry MX, topre, and membrane keys and I had heard around that the dampened whites felt very similar to rubber dome, and from my understanding of the mechanism I can imagine why.

Does everyone, for the most part, get these old keyboards from eBay?

Dampened Alps feel like Alps, only dampened. No mechanical switch feels like a rubber dome collapsing, except it the most general way. The dampening was probably intended more to reduce sound than feel.

Ebay is a good source, although at the bottom end of the spectrum shipping is as much or more than the board itself.

If you keep an eye on salvage stores, thrift stores, and yard sales you can often find decent old boards <$5

Oh okay, I'm still learning about this stuff so I apologize for saying something like that.

I've been looking at those Matias keyboards too. They are pretty expensive though, and I'm really not sure what kind of alps switch they even use. I know some use dampened, in their quiet models, but none of their specification sections say exactly which alps switch it uses. I'm guessing whites, but I have no idea.

Matias use their own clone switches, so they won't be exactly like anything else.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

Matias use their own clone switches, so they won't be exactly like anything else.

For reference:

http://matias.ca/switches/click/
http://matias.ca/switches/quiet/
http://deskthority.net/wiki/Matias_switch

Noticeably lighter than what?

The Dell RT7D50 is quite a stiff keyboard. Matias quiet switches have a nice light feeling, so they must have been lighter than the RT7D50 domes. The feel was otherwise quite similar, as I recall.

It sounds like he sells the ones with blue switches for more, because people want them and they are rarer, and will still sell at that higher price, but at the same time he tries to convince prospective buyers that they’d be just as happy with the cheaper white-switch boards.

That’s not trying to “rip people off”.

That's just a very confused mind. Why would you take advantage of perceived idiocy at the same time as trying to educate people? Lol, that's just plain nuts.

The only rational argument I could find is that the blue Alps boards are going to be older (MouseFan's chart shows 1985–1988 for blue Alps) and it could be argued that the original keyboards were better made, or typically require more maintenance as a result (worse yellowing, more dirt build-up etc).

By the way, I was reading this earlier:

http://sandy55.fc2web.com/keyboard/fk555.html

I won't quote any of it anywhere because Google Translate is not adequate (and I may be misunderstanding it as a result), but it contains some theories as to the origin of Focus Electronic and their potential involvement with the OmniKey series and with Apple as an OEM, since we appear not to know who made the OmniKey keyboards. Focus appear to have gone out of business, sadly, so I can't ask them any more — I have so much I would love to ask them if I could.

That would be an interesting page to have properly translated into English.

[johndavis33]

Matias use their own clone switches, so they won't be exactly like anything else.

For reference:

http://matias.ca/switches/click/
http://matias.ca/switches/quiet/
http://deskthority.net/wiki/Matias_switch

Noticeably lighter than what?

The Dell RT7D50 is quite a stiff keyboard. Matias quiet switches have a nice light feeling, so they must have been lighter than the RT7D50 domes. The feel was otherwise quite similar, as I recall.

It sounds like he sells the ones with blue switches for more, because people want them and they are rarer, and will still sell at that higher price, but at the same time he tries to convince prospective buyers that they’d be just as happy with the cheaper white-switch boards.

That’s not trying to “rip people off”.

That's just a very confused mind. Why would you take advantage of perceived idiocy at the same time as trying to educate people? Lol, that's just plain nuts.

The only rational argument I could find is that the blue Alps boards are going to be older (MouseFan's chart shows 1985–1988 for blue Alps) and it could be argued that the original keyboards were better made, or typically require more maintenance as a result (worse yellowing, more dirt build-up etc).

By the way, I was reading this earlier:

http://sandy55.fc2web.com/keyboard/fk555.html

I won't quote any of it anywhere because Google Translate is not adequate (and I may be misunderstanding it as a result), but it contains some theories as to the origin of Focus Electronic and their potential involvement with the OmniKey series and with Apple as an OEM, since we appear not to know who made the OmniKey keyboards. Focus appear to have gone out of business, sadly, so I can't ask them any more — I have so much I would love to ask them if I could.

That would be an interesting page to have properly translated into English.

Matais's page about their clicky switches says that cherry switches are all linear

wut

[Daniel Beardsmore]

Edgar Matias doesn't like Cherry's force curves : )

Accusations that MX Brown is "linear" or "linear with a small bump" or "scratchy linear" abound. A lot of people are not satisfied with the low tactility of MX Brown. MX Brown is definitely tactile, but it's quite subtle. You will find that the Matias quiet click switch is far more tactile that MX Brown.

Matias quiet click also has much better tactility than the Alps salmon and black switches I've used.

[jacobolus]

Matais's page about their clicky switches says that cherry switches are all linear

wut

Here’s what Matias had to say about that:

For us, feel is the most important thing. That's why I don't personally like Cherry switches. They're linear, so there's not much feel to them. They feel like old rubber domes that have lost all their elasticity.

For me, switches should convey the actuation point. You should be able to feel the exact spot where they trigger. For that, you need a tactile switch, which ours are.

With linear switches, you can only guess the actuation point. You can't feel it.

Switches should also provide just enough resistance to hold the weight of your hands. If they're too light, you'll need to support the weight of your hands yourself — which gets very tiring, and can lead to neck and shoulder pain.

And when someone asked about blue/brown switches:

Well, if I'm gonna eat a burger, I want a GOOD burger or a steak — not some overprocessed meat of questionable origin.

If you want tactile, Blues and Browns mix a lot of water with your wine. Our switches (and ALPS before them) are unabashedly tactile. They're not half-assing it.

If you want linear, Reds are linear. They're not pretending to be something else.

(Sorry for all the mixed metaphors :-)

[Daniel Beardsmore]

Of course, if you want proper tactility, then your only option is blue Alps ;-)

Well, maybe also Matias click switches — I have some loose switches, but I have yet to use them in a keyboard. (There are signs that a PC Tactile Pro might be coming at long last!)

Having said that, I've been using Topre variable, MX Red and MX Brown last week, and I like them all. I personally found Matias quiet click switches to be too juddery, although the force curve and weighting is perfect.

[johndavis33]

I know what he means about blues and browns not being tactile, but I'd say that greens and clears are pretty tactile

[jacobolus]

I know what he means about blues and browns not being tactile, but I'd say that greens and clears are pretty tactile

Have you used the Matias switches, or old Alps switches? Matias quiet switches are more tactile than MX “ergo” clear switches (and thus dramatically more than stock MX clear switches): the actuation point is higher, the force drop is sharper and more obvious, the feel is smoother, without the plastic-on-plastic friction.

[johndavis33]

I know what he means about blues and browns not being tactile, but I'd say that greens and clears are pretty tactile

Have you used the Matias switches, or old Alps switches? Matias quiet switches are more tactile than MX “ergo” clear switches (and thus dramatically more than stock MX clear switches): the actuation point is higher, the force drop is sharper and more obvious, the feel is smoother, without the plastic-on-plastic friction.

I've tried fuhua alps before, but never real alps. Are they really that tactile? It just seems like it'd be hrad to get a switch that would make greens feel linear.

[jacobolus]

Nah, they don’t make MX green feel linear. But I do find the feeling more satisfying than MX tactile/clicky switches. It has a different character.

If you set the bar for sharp tactility at, say, the feeling of Model F switches, then everything else I’ve tried falls somewhat short of that, but Alps clicky white/blue switches (and Matias quiet switches) are closer than MX switches, IMO. It sounds like the modded “jailhouse” MX blue switches might be pretty nice, but I haven’t tried those.

I haven’t tried the “fuhua” switches, but there were a few types, and supposedly some variation in feel even among batches of the same type? Which kind did you try? http://deskthority.net/wiki/Alps_SKBL/SKBM_series

I wonder how the typical SKBM clicky switch compares to the newer Matias clicky switches.

[johndavis33]

Nah, they don’t make MX green feel linear. But I do find the feeling more satisfying than MX tactile/clicky switches. It has a different character.

If you set the bar for sharp tactility at, say, the feeling of Model F switches, then everything else I’ve tried falls somewhat short of that, but Alps clicky white/blue switches (and Matias quiet switches) are closer than MX switches, IMO. It sounds like the modded “jailhouse” MX blue switches might be pretty nice, but I haven’t tried those.

I haven’t tried the “fuhua” switches, but there were a few types, and supposedly some variation in feel even among batches of the same type? Which kind did you try? http://deskthority.net/wiki/Alps_SKBL/SKBM_series

I wonder how the typical SKBM clicky switch compares to the newer Matias clicky switches.

Mine were the black ones. It was on a pretty neat board, and I'm trying to find it on deskthority because i thought i saw it there once.

[jacobolus]

Mine were the black ones. It was on a pretty neat board, and I'm trying to find it on deskthority because i thought i saw it there once.

I’m pretty sure the Matias quiet switches are noticeably more tactile than those black SKBM ones. They’re more tactile than SKCM orange or SKCM cream tactile switches, though that might be partly due to age/use in the examples I’ve tried.

[Rena]

So I found this omnikey for $50 on ebay shipped

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=111281617706

It's very dirty as you can tell from the pictures, but all the keys apparently work and I was thinking I could just take some dishwasher soap and soak the caps in them, then take off the cover of the board and give that a cleaning too. I also contacted the seller to ask him which exact switch it had and while he couldn't send a pic, he told me it was "white", which I'm guessing means it uses the complicated white alps.

So, is it worth it? Or should I ask for a lower price?

[CPTBadAss]

Yes its complicated white alps. I'd hold out for another Omnikey in better shape. It's so yellowed. I've seen other Omnikey 101s for the same price in way better condition. And I think it's one of the better Alps keyboards. You can read my review in my sig.

[Rena]

Yes its complicated white alps. I'd hold out for another Omnikey in better shape. It's so yellowed. I've seen other Omnikey 101s for the same price in way better condition. And I think it's one of the better Alps keyboards. You can read my review in my sig.

Yeah I did read through your review. It does seem to be a very nice board and I'm looking at getting this or maybe the focus fk-2001 for white alps. I'll get around to ordering the AT101W eventually for black alps.

I have seen people clean these pretty well, and I'm guessing I can do it too without ruining anything on it, although I guess it wouldn't be worth the effort when I probably could just find a better deal. Maybe if I talk the seller down the $30 or $35 it would be worth it then? Only other listing I see for the omnikey 101 on ebay right now is $100 and I don't think it's worth that much used.

[fohat.digs]

I have seen people clean these pretty well, and I'm guessing I can do it too without ruining anything on it, although I guess it wouldn't be worth the effort when I probably could just find a better deal.

The keyboard is worse in real life than in the photos. You will have a very hard time cleaning it.

The seller will not entertain a lower price.

[CPTBadAss]

Only other listing I see for the omnikey 101 on ebay right now is $100 and I don't think it's worth that much used.

In the last two weeks, I've seen 4 Omnikeys for around $40-50.