Old style Alps switches oval stems metal tops

[fohat.digs]

I bought an old laptop keyboard for some really nice Alps caps, and found these switches that I have never had before. They have an oval surround on the stem, and metal tops.

They seem to be linear and very smooth, but they just aren't what I like personally. I wish I could figure a use for them, but the legs look to be farther apart compared to standard plastic Alps.

Does anybody have any ideas or use for them? Are any parts of them interchangeable with regular Alps?

Thanks

[dorkvader]

switches are alps oval slider (low profile)
http://deskthority.net/wiki/Alps_low-profile_oval_slider

I dont think I've seen the even smaller version though!

I believe they have 4 pins so reusing them elsewhere is sorta-hard.

[jacobolus]

Thanks for posting these. I got the same keyboard as part of a Mitsubishi laptop a few weeks ago, and have been meaning to take pictures of the switches, including some of disassembly, since there don’t seem to be many on the Deskthority wiki, and the smaller size switches here aren’t even mentioned there. [They’re cap-compatible with the other half-width Alps switches http://deskthority.net/wiki/Alps_SKCL_Compact.]

These same oval slider PCB-mount switches were also used on Toshiba laptop keyboards, as well as some Atari 600XL and 800XL models, and those little writing machines made by Olivetti/NEC/Radio Shack [TRS 80 Model 100, etc.]

[sean4star]

Not too long ago I picked up a dead Toshiba T1200 laptop.  The keyboard used the exact stitches you have posted here.  The only thing is, mine don't seem to be that smooth.  They bind if you push the key even the slightest bit off center.  Maybe they just need to be cleaned and lubed, but I haven't been able to figure how to get them open yet.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

I only read the Keyboards forum, so I didn't even know of this topic until dorkvader mentioned the switch at GH (I had to figure out the topic for myself, from the URL of one of the images).

It made me wonder: since these are all linear, what's inside one of the bigger switches that you lose by lopping off one side? The answer: nothing.

Actually, not quite. The missing side contains space for an LED:

http://www7.ocn.ne.jp/~hisao/image/hx10d.htm

It's just that, unlike the SKCL series and numerous other switches (space invaders, Omrons), the LED hole is not exposed unless you need an LED fitted, and then a separate top cover is fitted. (My SKCL green and yellow Alps switches have the LED hole in the upper shell, as always, but I noticed that the lower shell has no holes for the LED legs — I can't imagine why Alps would leave out those holes.)

Are they keycap compatible with the bigger switches? From what I understand (though I'm not clear on this) the more common "half-Alps" switch does not accept normal Alps keycaps.

Also, would you be able to check, for the record, whether "normal" Alps keycaps fit on these metal lid switches? (So long as they have a rectangular hole in the keycap peg — not all keycaps do, especially not Acer's.)

[fohat.digs]

Also, would you be able to check, for the record, whether "normal" Alps keycaps fit on these metal lid switches?

The primary standard switches will accept normal Alps keys with no problem, and vice versa.

The "half-pint" keys at the top 2 rows are very different - the holes are smaller, and the skirts of the caps are long and deep so that they go down around the body of the switch.

[mr_a500]

Those oval ALPS are on the TRS-80 Model 100 and one version of the Atari 800XL.

I've never seen the square smaller metal capped ones before though.

[jacobolus]

Also, would you be able to check, for the record, whether "normal" Alps keycaps fit on these metal lid switches? (So long as they have a rectangular hole in the keycap peg — not all keycaps do, especially not Acer's.)

Some types of normal Alps keycaps fit fine. Others don’t fit.

[jacobolus]

Oh also, note, the narrower keys are keycap-compatible with these http://deskthority.net/wiki/Alps_SKCL_Compact (but that’s a different type of keycap than fits on regular Alps switches, or the standard-size oval-slider switches).

[Daniel Beardsmore]

Oh also, note, the narrower keys are keycap-compatible with these http://deskthority.net/wiki/Alps_SKCL_Compact (but that’s a different type of keycap than fits on regular Alps switches, or the standard-size oval-slider switches).

Ah, so Alps actually maintained the keycap mount dimensions for the mini switches? That's interesting to note.

What are the dimensions for the mini switch mount? It would be nice to have that on record.

Some types of normal Alps keycaps fit fine. Others don’t fit.

It will be the ones with the large hole inside the peg in the keycap, which is common, but some keycap manufacturers omitted that hole as they didn't have any reason for it (most switches, including those from Alps themselves, do not need it).

t's just that the peg inside the slider always looked to large to fit inside the hole in the keycap. There are also other Alps switches (e.g. those in the Apple Adjustable Keyboard) with a peg inside a rectangular slider hole that appear to have a different mount. Sadly there are no measurements of any of these switches to use as a comparison.

[jacobolus]

It's just that the peg inside the slider always looked to large to fit inside the hole in the keycap. There are also other Alps switches (e.g. those in the Apple Adjustable Keyboard) with a peg inside a rectangular slider hole that appear to have a different mount. Sadly there are no measurements of any of these switches to use as a comparison.

I can measure the dimensions of the sliders for you. (But I’m not going to desolder any of the switches in this Apple Adjustable Keyboard before selling it, because it’s a real pain to take apart. :-))

[Daniel Beardsmore]

Calipers should be able to provide all the slider measurements.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

I've created a page for the little ones now:

http://deskthority.net/wiki/Alps_SKFL_Compact

I was holding off until I could find a new name to cover both varieties. Now we know the name for the big version, it's possible to name the Mini-Me version.

[nubbinator]

Necroing, but I just found some of these and some half switches on an old Mitsubishi MP 286L today and wanted to show it off since I had never seen those SKFL half sized Alps in person yet:



Still some of my favorite Alps ever.  I was sad that the place wasn't selling anything.  They had an old Dolch system under a different name, a couple SKFL laptops, an Apple keyboard with Orange Alps (which I now need because they felt so nice), and several other things.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

What were they doing with them, then?

[nubbinator]

What were they doing with them, then?

Apparently they have kids come through there sometimes and they show them off?  I had a hard time believing it since they were in a big old pile with all kinds of dust on everything. 

[jacobolus]

There was a pile of NOS replacement Alps laptop keyboards identical to the one on that Mitsubishi that a bunch of Geekhackers bought from a guy on ebay a while back for $20 each or something. Perhaps someone who wanted to use most of the keycaps for some other Alps board would sell you the left-over keyboard for cheap.

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=54992

[fohat.digs]

I think that I may still have the bare board. I bought it for the keys, and there never was any case.

PM me, I would sell it cheap but it has to go cross-country.

[skrsh3r]

I'm interested in how are they compared to other linear switches like greens and yellows, are they less wobbly and smoother if so a keyboard out of them would be epic at last to linear alps lovers and it would be easier to work with them since they are pcb mount so there is no need to design plate as for caps from what i see sgi and old dell at101 caps should fit.

[fohat.digs]

They are very smooth and relatively light - a person who likes linear action would love them.

As I recall, they have a strange 4-pin connection and the top row is half-sized, so they are not even remotely compatible with modern Alps, except for the caps.

[nubbinator]

I did a review of them if you want to get my impressions on their feel and see what they look like internally.

From what I remember, they weren't as smooth as Green Alps (only slightly less smooth), but were more stable. They also had a shorter throw.

[skrsh3r]

Thanks, i just might try getting getting them for a custom board, just one more question how are stabs mounted on pcb? Are they glued or they snap in like plate ones?

[Daniel Beardsmore]

"Inserts" are the bit that goes inside the keycap; I don't know what you call the corresponding doobries that go into the PCB or plate to hold the wire.

The ones from my NEC PC-8201A are strange. The space bar one seems to be melted on:



For the other keys, it just seems to be a very, very tight fit:



Whether this is the same as for other Alps SKFL keyboards, I don't know.

I've just realised — the metal top seems to be part of the switch circuit. Odd.

[jacobolus]

Yeah, a lot of pcb-mounted Alps keyboards (SKFL, alps plate spring, alps integrated dome) have those little melted plastic rivets holding the stabilizer clips to the pcb.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

Only the space bar ones are melted. The others just seem to be a really tight press fit.