Author Topic: Why do people prefer Brown over Red?  (Read 5990 times)

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Offline ideus

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Re: Why do people prefer Brown over Red?
« Reply #50 on: Wed, 26 February 2014, 21:37:13 »
Well, demik seems to be a clear Topre fanboy, however the question is about two MX switches. Aren't topre comments out of topic here?

Offline Dubsgalore

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Re: Why do people prefer Brown over Red?
« Reply #51 on: Wed, 26 February 2014, 21:42:06 »
I prefer browns over reds, because they are infinitely better

Offline jacobolus

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Re: Why do people prefer Brown over Red?
« Reply #52 on: Wed, 26 February 2014, 21:46:41 »
QuadGMoto, have you tried tactile/clicky Alps switches, NMB space-invaders, SMK inverse cross/MX/alps mount, Futaba clicky, orange/cyan Omrons, etc.? You might well prefer them to MX blue/MX “ergo” clear. In particular, Alps switches and keycaps are pretty easy to find, and noticeably more tactile than Cherry MX switches, since Cherry MX is basically a linear switch with an added plastic-on-plastic bump.

Offline QuadGMoto

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Re: Why do people prefer Brown over Red?
« Reply #53 on: Wed, 26 February 2014, 22:17:16 »
My favorite keyboard of all time (though my brand new TECK has a shot at the title among keyboards I've used) was the Saratoga, the original Apple Extended Keyboard. It's key weight was perfect and it did seem to have a bit of snap. (I still have it, so I can do comparisons with it.) My understanding is that its beautiful feel is due to its use of Alps switches. The switches were about as light as the original IBM XT and AT keyboards (yes, I've been in computers that long) but a lot quieter, and IMHO, less sloppy. The original PS/2 keyboards where much better than the original IBM PC keyboards in a lot of ways, especially layout, but they were far too heavy for my taste, even then.

When I did a comparison of the Cherry switches to those Alps the browns were the closest in feel. Besides feeling a wave of nostalgia, I realized that when I typed on that keyboard, I bottomed out regularly. That's apparently a very bad thing ergonomically. That's why I settled on the blues when ordering the TECK. So far, I think that was the right decision.

Part of the limitations I'm operating under is time, so I needed to focus on switches that are readily available and easy to learn about. I found information and samples of the Cherry switches far more easily than any of the others. Plus, when it comes to ergonomically designed keyboards, the Cherry switches are just about all that most manufacturers use.

It's quite possible that there are better switches, I just don't have the time to dig and experiment too deeply. (Too much other stuff going on in my life that's even more important.) Given all of the above, even if the Cherrys aren't "the very best", they are still very, very good. IMHO, they're currently the best balance between quality, availability, and support of the various switches.

Maybe at some point down the road I'll get to go hands on for some of those other switches and I'll be able to say that they're better switches. For now, I can only say "best of what I've surveyed."

Offline ideus

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Re: Why do people prefer Brown over Red?
« Reply #54 on: Wed, 26 February 2014, 22:41:07 »
I have a poker x with reds and a leo 66 with browns. I prefer the leo, but I should say it is not the switches but also the construction of the last, that is more solid with a plate. A friend has a Saratoga in his attic and I tested it once, I can confirm Quad's comment that the Leo feels pretty close to it. It is a very nice feeling.

Offline jacobolus

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Re: Why do people prefer Brown over Red?
« Reply #55 on: Wed, 26 February 2014, 23:12:54 »
My favorite keyboard of all time (though my brand new TECK has a shot at the title among keyboards I've used) was the Saratoga, the original Apple Extended Keyboard. It's key weight was perfect and it did seem to have a bit of snap. (I still have it, so I can do comparisons with it.) My understanding is that its beautiful feel is due to its use of Alps switches. [...] Besides feeling a wave of nostalgia, I realized that when I typed on that keyboard, I bottomed out regularly. That's apparently a very bad thing ergonomically.
Yeah, the AEK I used tactile Alps switches w/ orange colored sliders. I like those a lot. It also had solid construction and dye-subbed PBT keycaps.

The AEK II used dampened Alps switches w/ ivory/cream colored sliders, which have a similar feel but which are much quieter (and I don’t like quite as much), but it had nicer (thicker) keycaps.

I like both of those, and also clicky Alps white/blue, better than any Cherry MX switches.

As for bottoming out on those, I personally find that it’s fairly easy to not bottom out too hard on most tactile/clicky Alps switches (except brown Alps), if you pay attention to it. But also, because there’s such a big force drop after the tactile/actuation point, I find that bottoming out is typically not as bad on Alps switches because I end up not putting much force into my fingers after the tactile point, so even if the switch bottoms out, it’s doing so very lightly: Not at all like the kind of bottoming out required on a rubber dome. Also, the tactile point is pretty high up, giving you a lot of post-actuation travel distance to stop pressing.

I want to experiment with adding some Sorbothane landing pads on them, to see what effect that has on the end of key travel.

The best switches I’ve used to avoid bottoming out are Model F. Nothing else really comes close, but blue/white Alps and blue/white SMK alps mount (“monterey”) are pretty good.

Matias is coming out with an split ergonomic keyboard using somewhat similar switches to the AEK II’s (also damped, similar weight or maybe very slightly heavier, slightly snappier feel, slightly wobblier), the “Matias quiet” switches, which I personally like a bit better than the switches in the AEK II. It should be shipping in about 6 months, and can be pre-ordered now for free shipping. http://matias.ca/ergopro/pc/

But I hear you about Cherry MX being more widely available, w/ more keyboards, keycap sets, etc. available. (It’s too bad, because I’m not a big fan of any Cherry MX switches.)

How do you like the TECK?
« Last Edit: Wed, 26 February 2014, 23:19:36 by jacobolus »

Offline QuadGMoto

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Re: Why do people prefer Brown over Red?
« Reply #56 on: Thu, 27 February 2014, 08:45:07 »
Matias is coming out with an split ergonomic keyboard using somewhat similar switches to the AEK II’s (also damped, similar weight or maybe very slightly heavier, slightly snappier feel, slightly wobblier), the “Matias quiet” switches, which I personally like a bit better than the switches in the AEK II. It should be shipping in about 6 months, and can be pre-ordered now for free shipping. http://matias.ca/ergopro/pc/

I'm aware of it. It does sound like their key switches will be very nice. However, that board also maintains some design that I'm already moving past, such as its staggered layout, as opposed to a columnar layout. It looks to be a good board for someone who is using a traditional keyboard to start moving to a more ergonomic setup. But I'm personally looking towards a more aggressively ergonomic setup. That's why I'm so excited about AcidFire's project: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=44940.0

Quote
How do you like the TECK?

Yesterday was only my first full day with it. There is a definite learning curve to adjust to the new layout. For example, the control key is where the shift key is on a normal keyboard. Since I'm on a Mac, that's used as the Command key. So if I'm typing in a web browser and I type a capital 'W' and fall into my old habit… (Command-W is the shortcut for close window, and browsers don't usually confirm a close.)

I can say that the switches feel very good, much better than the MS Natural 4000 it replaced. Though the old keyboard was well broken in, which makes the rubber domes almost 'nice', these switches already vastly outstrip the old keyboard. The structure of this thing feels very solid, and after adding 0.2 mm rubber rings (from WASD Keyboards) to the keys, the noise level and feel are just great, far superior to the Gen 1 Matias Pro I had tried several years ago. I fully expect to be a better and faster typist on this thing once I get used to it.

As for their tech support… Wait, they have tech support?

Offline Firebolt1914

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Re: Why do people prefer Brown over Red?
« Reply #57 on: Thu, 27 February 2014, 19:44:25 »
For me, I just like MX Browns better just out of preference. They just feel better compared to Reds.

Offline osi

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Re: Why do people prefer Brown over Red?
« Reply #58 on: Thu, 27 February 2014, 20:22:00 »
Game primarily? Choose reds

Don't game? Choose browns

Offline ideus

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Re: Why do people prefer Brown over Red?
« Reply #59 on: Thu, 27 February 2014, 20:29:57 »
That's just an urban legend.