First mechanical .. dissapointed with key wobble :/

[keybone]

So I just opened up my new Matias Laptop Pro mechanical and while it's a huge improvement over the scissor switch Apple Wireless Keyboard, the wobble on the keys is annoying and unexpected.

Is this normal for a high end keyboard? Any keyboard that's don't do this?

[Techno Trousers]

That's part of the charm of Alps switches. There is less key wobble with other mechanical switch types. From my own experience, I'd say buckling spring is most stable, followed by Cherry MX. I've never tried Topre.

[wetto]

According to Edgar Matias himself:

[10/12/2013 22:36:42] Wellington Diesel: but anyways, why's there so much wobbling with your switches?
[10/12/2013 22:36:51] Wellington Diesel: I mean, the keycaps wobble a lot if you try to move them
[10/12/2013 22:37:23] Edgar Matias: it prevents them from catching if you press the key off-centre
[10/12/2013 22:37:43] Edgar Matias: wobble is your friend
[10/12/2013 22:37:50] Wellington Diesel: hmm... nice to know
[10/12/2013 22:38:07] Wellington Diesel: I just don't want to make some pre-concepts about something that's actually positive
[10/12/2013 22:38:27] Edgar Matias: yeah, never understood why there's so much hate on the wobble
[10/12/2013 22:38:37] Edgar Matias: probably just lack of awareness

Other mechanical keyboards normally do not hve this characteristic, but as said by Edgar himself, it's not really a bad thing.

[jacobolus]

Old “complicated” Alps switches are much less wobbly than the later Alps switches or various clones, or the new Matias switches.

That said, I don’t personally find the wobble to be too big a problem.

[Novus]

Key Wobble?
Get a topre.
Be happy.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

That said, I don’t personally find the wobble to be too big a problem.

I was back on my Quiet Pro again briefly earlier — never noticed any wobble. Never noticed it on any Alps keyboard.

I do notice that if I press on the right-hand end of shift on my Majestouch, the keycap twists laterally on the stabiliser. That worried me when I first received it.

[mougrim]

That's part of the charm of Alps switches. There is less key wobble with other mechanical switch types. From my own experience, I'd say buckling spring is most stable, followed by Cherry MX. I've never tried Topre.

I second this. Have both MX Blue keyboard and buckle spring one - no wobble ever on MX Blue one (used it for a two years), no wobble so far on buckle spring one (for two weeks).

[keybone]

According to Edgar Matias himself:

[10/12/2013 22:36:42] Wellington Diesel: but anyways, why's there so much wobbling with your switches?
[10/12/2013 22:36:51] Wellington Diesel: I mean, the keycaps wobble a lot if you try to move them
[10/12/2013 22:37:23] Edgar Matias: it prevents them from catching if you press the key off-centre
[10/12/2013 22:37:43] Edgar Matias: wobble is your friend
[10/12/2013 22:37:50] Wellington Diesel: hmm... nice to know
[10/12/2013 22:38:07] Wellington Diesel: I just don't want to make some pre-concepts about something that's actually positive
[10/12/2013 22:38:27] Edgar Matias: yeah, never understood why there's so much hate on the wobble
[10/12/2013 22:38:37] Edgar Matias: probably just lack of awareness

Other mechanical keyboards normally do not hve this characteristic, but as said by Edgar himself, it's not really a bad thing.

It possibly begs the question how other non-wobbly mechanicals like the Topre evade the edge catching problem?

Really interesting snippet though.

Thanks peeps. Guess I'll stick with the Matias; As there doesn't seem to be a massive plethora of choice, in the "mac-friendly-mechanical-wireless-kb" dept.

[Belfong]

I'm not sure what are the characteristics of a Mac keyboard you refer to. HHKB is pretty Mac friendly, I can even power off the Mac by pressing Fn-Esc.

I believe Code keyboard by WASD which is on Cherry MX has a Mac dip switch, so it's pretty Mac friendly.

Unless I'm missing some functionality. I'm a daily MacBook Air user.

[mougrim]

I'm not sure what are the characteristics of a Mac keyboard you refer to. HHKB is pretty Mac friendly, I can even power off the Mac by pressing Fn-Esc.

I believe Code keyboard by WASD which is on Cherry MX has a Mac dip switch, so it's pretty Mac friendly.

Unless I'm missing some functionality. I'm a daily MacBook Air user.

I think key word was "wireless"

[robertsig]

If you want a solid feel with no wobble, get a Topre.  Even Cherry switches feel uneasy if you are used to a good dome.

[mougrim]

If you want a real solid feel, get BS keyboard. No wobble ever

[spuriousgeorge]

Visited someone who owns a Das Keyboard a few weeks ago, one with MX blues, and the keys on that keyboard had quite a bit of wobble. Didn't bother me; but I wouldn't recommend MX if you're looking for something wobble free.

The few buckling spring and Topre keyboards I've tried felt solid.

[Belfong]

Do you have a video of what exactly do you mean by wobble? I am using a RealForce 87U and if I were to lightly placed my fingers on a key and jiggled it, the keys move left and right - of course they do.. so I am not getting what you mean by wobble.

[daerid]

Alps keys in particular are very wobbly (it's exactly what it sounds like). Basically if you can grab a keycap and wiggle it back and forth, that's what we mean by "wobble". The more distance it can wiggle, the more wobble.

My god I'm starting to sound like a children's show.

[geniekid]

If you want a solid feel with no wobble, get a Topre.  Even Cherry switches feel uneasy if you are used to a good dome.

I disagree.  I just tried the two keyboards I have in front of me, and my HHKB Type-S actually feels more wobbly than my QFR MX Brown with WASD caps.  This is just me putting my finger on a cap and moving it left to right without pressing down hard enough to actuate the switch.  Not a very scientific analysis, of course   We may have different definitions of what wobbly means.

[Belfong]

Exactly, this is a mechanical keyboard. It's mechanical not electronics. There are plastic parts on top of each other and these parts go up and down so you can type. Of course they wobble. I think to even be worried and disappointed about this basic fact is taking this hobby a tad too far!

[tricheboars]

plate mounted switches have less woble in my experience.

[geniekid]

Exactly, this is a mechanical keyboard. It's mechanical not electronics. There are plastic parts on top of each other and these parts go up and down so you can type. Of course they wobble. I think to even be worried and disappointed about this basic fact is taking this hobby a tad too far!

I agree that wobble is to be expected, but I do think it's possible for keys to be too wobbly.  If I'm not mistaken (and I frequently am), some members here even put stickers in their MX switches to reduce the side-to-side movement.  See http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=48691.0

plate mounted switches have less woble in my experience.

That may explain why my HHKB feels more wobbly since it is PCB mounted.  A RealForce might be better in this regard but I do not have one to compare.

[interwebhobo]

According to Edgar Matias himself:

[10/12/2013 22:36:42] Wellington Diesel: but anyways, why's there so much wobbling with your switches?
[10/12/2013 22:36:51] Wellington Diesel: I mean, the keycaps wobble a lot if you try to move them
[10/12/2013 22:37:23] Edgar Matias: it prevents them from catching if you press the key off-centre
[10/12/2013 22:37:43] Edgar Matias: wobble is your friend
[10/12/2013 22:37:50] Wellington Diesel: hmm... nice to know
[10/12/2013 22:38:07] Wellington Diesel: I just don't want to make some pre-concepts about something that's actually positive
[10/12/2013 22:38:27] Edgar Matias: yeah, never understood why there's so much hate on the wobble
[10/12/2013 22:38:37] Edgar Matias: probably just lack of awareness

Other mechanical keyboards normally do not hve this characteristic, but as said by Edgar himself, it's not really a bad thing.

Huh, this is pretty interesting. OP, do you feel what you're experiencing supports this? I have an older Alps (AEK) so I don't see it as much, but I think it does make for an interesting concept. Do you think you make less errors on your matias compared to other less wobbly keys?



Also, first thing I thought of when I read that quote praising wobble "Oh I bet he loves this" hah

[remdell]

I agree that wobble is to be expected, but I do think it's possible for keys to be too wobbly.  If I'm not mistaken (and I frequently am), some members here even put stickers in their MX switches to reduce the side-to-side movement.  See http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=48691.0

I actually find the wobbliness of Alps keys to be pleasant at times.  It helps me type just a tad bit more accurate.  However, I agree with you that it's possible for keys to be too wobbly.  I think all complicated Alps are pretty good, but their clones... can get unbearably wobbly.  An example of this would be the XM Green Alps on the Ducky Dk1008/DK1087.  It was as if the keys were balanced on top of toothpicks or something.  Changing the keycaps to thicker keycaps did help, but not by much.

[daerid]

plate mounted switches have less woble in my experience.

That may explain why my HHKB feels more wobbly since it is PCB mounted.  A RealForce might be better in this regard but I do not have one to compare.

There's really no such thing as a "pcb mounted" Topre switch. The closest a HHKB comes to is plate-mounted, but the top plastic case of the HHKB essentially acts as the plate. The fit of the plunger into the top switch housing contributes to Topre key wobble much, much more than whether there's a steel plate or not.

[Roibhilin]

alps are wobbly

[Findecanor]

The wobbliness of Alps is a big difference to Apple's scissor switches, where the scissors works as dual stabilisers, stabilising each switch.

[IAmTheGuy]

Imo its not bad.  It doesn't  feel cheap because the degree of wobble is uniform.  It also doesn't affect typing at all.  I wouldn't go so far as to call it a feature, but it certainly adds character.