Author Topic: I want a new keyboard - advice? (Read 5168 times)

jscinoz · « **on:** Sat, 28 March 2009, 07:27:26 »

Hi everyone,

For the past year I've used a Razer Lycosa (which I believe uses scissor switches) as my main keyboard. I often spend a long time typing (some times 8 hours or more per day), as I use Linux, and I use the console for the majority of tasks (pretty much everything other than web browsing (elinks doesn't cut it

) and school work (I often need to do things that I just can't do in plaintext

)). That said, I also game quite a lot, and thus need something that is responsive. Also, I've recently started learning Dvorak, and I'm nearly at the point where I can forget Qwerty forever

.

Coming to my reason for posting, I've started to find my current keyboard, a tad lacking, it often doesn't register keys, and sometimes random keys stop working until I unplug it and reconnect it.

I want to get a mechanical keyboard, and I saw the Das Keyboard, which looks really nice. I'd definitely prefer to get a keyboard with no printed keys, as I want to primarily use Dvorak, and looking down will only slow me down, and hinder me in learning the layout.

However, I've heard the Das has some issues when multiple keys are pressed very close together, and how it always outputs a certain sequence instead of what was actually pressed. I read a thread on these forums about this (http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?t=909), but no one has posted on there for quite a while, and I'm not sure if this issue still applies to the currently available revisions of the Das.

Would you guys recommend this keyboard? Or would something else be better for me?

Thanks,
jscinoz

iMav · « **Reply #1 on:** Sat, 28 March 2009, 07:43:46 »

For someone interested in mechanical key switches, I would recommend a Filco 'board (personally, I like them with blue Cherry switches, like the Das, but don't know readily available they currently are)

If you want a lower cost 'board, the Scorpius M10 is a viable option as well. Of course, neither of these are easily available with blank keys.

Buckling spring 'boards from Unicomp can be had with blank keys (check out the Customizer LED thread in the modifications forum). HHKB's can be had with blank keys as well...but that is an entirely different beast.

MANISH7 · « **Reply #2 on:** Sat, 28 March 2009, 08:33:05 »

You can pop off the keycaps and re-arrange them to the Dvorak layout like I did. This way you don't need to go out of your way to get blank keys (and limit your options). Since you are a gamer, I wonder if N key rollover is an issue for you? This is when you press multiple keys at the same time and the keyboard register it properly. Supposedly, the Model Ms (Unicomp and IBM) have only 2 key rollover. I do some light gaming (COD4) with the Unicomp & IBM and never had problems. In fairness, I only press few keys simultaneously as I don't have the finesse to press so many keys at once. When you do pick out a keyboard you can check the stickied thread up top on the keyboard forum for N key rollover.

jscinoz · « **Reply #3 on:** Sat, 28 March 2009, 08:59:23 »

iMav, Thanks, i'll look into both of those, and see what I can find around here, unfortunately there aren't too many online shops that sell any keyboards other than the more mainstream brands (Logitech, etc) in my country (Australia).

Manish7, I thought about rearranging the keys, but aren't there going to be issues on some keyboards where the keys are different heights or angled slightly when in their normal Qwerty layout. Also regarding games, the main games I play are UrbanTerror, Nexuiz and OpenArena, all of which are relatively fast paced, so I do sometimes get into button-mashing situations

. So I'll have to look for something that has N key rollover I guess.

nerp · « **Reply #4 on:** Sat, 28 March 2009, 09:12:32 »

At least with the model M and Unicomps, the letter keys are all the same and can be moved around with ease. Just the J and F keys will have nubs from their illustrious home row status.

ktkr · « **Reply #5 on:** Sat, 28 March 2009, 09:34:39 »

Quote from: jscinoz;25832

However, I've heard the Das has some issues when multiple keys are pressed very close together, and how it always outputs a certain sequence instead of what was actually pressed. I read a thread on these forums about this (http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?t=909), but no one has posted on there for quite a while, and I'm not sure if this issue still applies to the currently available revisions of the Das.

I'm afraid it still does it, at least my brand new Ultimate does. On a bright side, I haven't experienced the problem when typing away normally.

Overall, I'm extremely satisfied with my Das III. If you put aside the quality control issues and the n-key rollover problem, I think it's a fantastic board with no real flaws and good availability.

MANISH7 · « **Reply #6 on:** Sat, 28 March 2009, 09:44:01 »

Quote from: jscinoz;25838

Manish7, I thought about rearranging the keys, but aren't there going to be issues on some keyboards where the keys are different heights or angled slightly when in their normal Qwerty layout.

It won't be an issue with keyboards that use the traditional IBM layout. You do have a good point though, it's always good to check. As an example, iMAV suggested the Scorpius M10. If it is possible to pop off the keys and rearrange them on this keyboard (we'd have to verify from someone who actually used it), then since this uses the traditional IBM layout - you will not have problems with angles / different shapes.

Quote

At least with the model M and Unicomps, the letter keys are all the same and can be moved around with ease. Just the J and F keys will have nubs from their illustrious home row status.

Yup. I love the tactile feedback of the Unicomp for gaming. I wonder if the USB version of the Unicomp has 6 key rollover. The only consideration for the OP is that some people prefer lighter key switches over heavier key switches for an ergonomic advantage.

bigpook · « **Reply #7 on:** Sat, 28 March 2009, 10:24:11 »

What are you using on the U and H keys?

MANISH7 · « **Reply #8 on:** Sat, 28 March 2009, 11:19:42 »

Quote from: bigpook;25850

What are you using on the U and H keys?

Clear duck tape. Very tactile - even better than the small nipples on F & J

rdjack21 · « **Reply #9 on:** Sat, 28 March 2009, 13:09:37 »

Quote from: MANISH7;25854

Clear duck tape. Very tactile - even better than the small nipples on F & J

LOL - Almost fell out of my chair

And I thought I used duck tape for everything but had not thought of that use.

rdjack21 · « **Reply #10 on:** Sat, 28 March 2009, 13:16:07 »

Quote from: MANISH7;25844

It won't be an issue with keyboards that use the traditional IBM layout. You do have a good point though, it's always good to check. As an example, iMAV suggested the Scorpius M10. If it is possible to pop off the keys and rearrange them on this keyboard (we'd have to verify from someone who actually used it), then since this uses the traditional IBM layout - you will not have problems with angles / different shapes.

I'm Typing on the Scorpius right now so lets see.. All the Alpha keys look to be all the same size and height so it should not be a problem to rearrange them. And I have pulled a few of the keys on this board with out issues. They are a little tight but no problem.

MANISH7 · « **Reply #11 on:** Sat, 28 March 2009, 13:46:04 »

Thank you! So if the OP chooses to try blue cherries, the Scorpio is a cost effective keyboard that will also let him change the key layout to Dvorak. Blank keys are not a necessity.

Yeah, duck tape is very useful! Just take a small strip and place it halfway on the key like I have it on my U. That way, half of the key is slightly taller with the tape placed on it. You can then feel the height difference at the center like a groove.

jscinoz · « **Reply #12 on:** Mon, 30 March 2009, 08:15:39 »

Hey guys,

Thanks for all the help, but it looks like I may have to pay extra for a Das, I can't find the Scorpius anywhere in Australia, the Das looks like the only decent mechanical keyboard anyone sells here

Any word on if that rollover issue on the Das was fixed in the current revision or not?

o2dazone · « **Reply #13 on:** Mon, 30 March 2009, 08:38:58 »

IMO, get a Filco if you're going to fork out the cash for a das III. While I don't own a dasIII, it just seems like a very expensive board, without any of the qualities of an expensive board (poor construction, not very dense). The only thing it has going for it is the look (preference) and the blue switches. And there's boards out there for half the cost of a das III with blue switches in them (and no rollover or construction problems).

Feel free for anyone to come in and prove me wrong though...but the few posts I've seen about the das III people weren't terribly happy with them. Maybe I'm just reading the wrong posts LOL

edit: Thought I'd couple this post with a thread about said poor quality

itlnstln · « **Reply #14 on:** Mon, 30 March 2009, 09:08:12 »

Quote from: o2dazone;26109

IMO, get a Filco if you're going to fork out the cash for a das III. While I don't own a dasIII, it just seems like a very expensive board, without any of the qualities of an expensive board (poor construction, not very dense). The only thing it has going for it is the look (preference) and the blue switches. And there's boards out there for half the cost of a das III with blue switches in them (and no rollover or construction problems).

Feel free for anyone to come in and prove me wrong though...but the few posts I've seen about the das III people weren't terribly happy with them. Maybe I'm just reading the wrong posts LOL

edit: Thought I'd couple this post with a thread about said poor quality

That's about right. I think majestouch is looking into getting some Filcos with blue Cherrys.

bhtooefr · « **Reply #15 on:** Mon, 30 March 2009, 13:54:51 »

But Diatec appears to throw out the actual crap, from everything I've heard.

(Or send it back, or whatever.)

Anyway, what about the Cherry G80-3000? If push really comes to shove, someone could probably reship a ($65 USD) LSCRC, and it might be a smidge cheaper than a Das III.

nvus · « **Reply #16 on:** Mon, 30 March 2009, 20:02:37 »

Look up some reviews on the abs m1. I've read mixed reviews about them. It's 70$ on newegg. I got a filco from elitekeyboards instead of the abs because I was afraid of rollover issues (and filco has tenkeyless).

FKSSR · « **Reply #17 on:** Mon, 30 March 2009, 20:10:47 »

You can get an ABS M1 from itlnstln for pretty cheap. I like mine, though I currently don't use it for much.

iMav · « **Reply #18 on:** Tue, 31 March 2009, 07:38:28 »

does anyone have both a DAS3 and a Filco 'board (with either brown or blue cherry switches)? I'm curious if the DAS3 is a suitable keycap donor for the Filco boards. (which would be one, albeit expensive, way to get a blank Filco).

itlnstln · « **Reply #19 on:** Tue, 31 March 2009, 07:49:38 »

Quote from: iMav;26263

does anyone have both a DAS3 and a Filco 'board (with either brown or blue cherry switches)? I'm curious if the DAS3 is a suitable keycap donor for the Filco boards. (which would be one, albeit expensive, way to get a blank Filco).

It would be even better if Metadot would sell replacement keycap sets. I am suprised they don't since they could "upgrade" people to the ultimate. I guess they are looking for the full price upgrade.

FKSSR · « **Reply #20 on:** Tue, 31 March 2009, 08:05:31 »

Quote from: itlnstln;26266

It would be even better if Metadot would sell replacement keycap sets. I am suprised they don't since they could "upgrade" people to the ultimate. I guess they are looking for the full price upgrade.

I agree. I think it is pretty ridiculous.

I'm hoping that EliteKeyboards.com can get Filco blank keycaps. Wouldn't all key caps made for Cherry switches fit? I guess maybe the width or height could be different, but I wouldn't think it would be that big of a difference.

itlnstln · « **Reply #21 on:** Tue, 31 March 2009, 08:09:05 »

Quote from: FKSSR;26274

I agree. I think it is pretty ridiculous.

I'm hoping that EliteKeyboards.com can get Filco blank keycaps. Wouldn't all key caps made for Cherry switches fit? I guess maybe the width or height could be different, but I wouldn't think it would be that big of a difference.

In theory, they should, but the color might not match or some other minor incompatibility. I doubt there would be a size problem, but stranger things have happened.

itlnstln · « **Reply #22 on:** Tue, 31 March 2009, 08:33:56 »

Coming from the retail industry, I think Metadot has a lot of opportunity for incremental sales. Spare keycaps (for "upgraders" as well as "downgraders"), wrist rests, mouse pads, etc. Diatec does a pretty good job with this in regards to the Filco brand. Metadot could always start by shipping a 100% working keyboard as well, but I think they are really missing the boat on the incremental sales.

cchan · « **Reply #23 on:** Tue, 31 March 2009, 10:03:08 »

Quote from: itlnstln;26282

Metadot could always start by shipping a 100% working keyboard as well

Quoted for epic truth. I'll stick with my G80-3000LSCRC, thank you very much. It may not be fancy or even NKRO, but it works.

jscinoz · « **Reply #24 on:** Fri, 03 April 2009, 00:34:38 »

Alright thanks, I'll try get a Filco then, I can't find anywhere in Australia that sells them, but the board is significantly cheaper than the Das, so even with international shipping costs, it may work out cheaper in the end

Thanks for all the help,
jscinoz

FKSSR · « **Reply #25 on:** Fri, 03 April 2009, 06:52:35 »

Quote from: ripster;26750

I would try the Filco first but really, the Das would work for you as well and it would be a lot easier to get the blank keys for the Das.

I would wait and see if EliteKeyboards.com can get the blank keys. Majestouch (the GH member and owner) is looking into it.

News:

Author Topic: I want a new keyboard - advice? (Read 5168 times)