Author Topic: Any lawyers? Housemate in charge of rent has been pocketing $...  (Read 2308 times)

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Offline intelli78

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Here's the deal. I have been subletting a master bedroom in a house for about 5-6 months. The other housemates are on the lease; I AM NOT.

One housemate is in charge of collecting rent and paying it to the property manager. We just found out that he hasn't paid rent (or bills) for 3 months -- found out when an eviction summons was taped to the door. The summons does not list my name, since I am not on the lease, but it does say "John Does 1-10."

I do not know if the current lease says anything about him being the rent collector, if that is relevant in any way. I believe it is just an informal agreement.

Court date is Friday. Questions:

(1) am I legally obligated to go because of the "John Doe" text?

(2) should I go? I would feel bad to skip out and make my housemates face the music alone, but if I accompany them, will I risk creating any new legal/financial consequences for myself?

Also, I do NOT have receipts, paid this guy sometimes via check and sometimes via cash.
« Last Edit: Wed, 19 March 2014, 21:13:29 by intelli78 »
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Offline Novus

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Re: Any lawyers? Housemate in charge of rent has been pocketing $...
« Reply #1 on: Wed, 19 March 2014, 21:16:51 »
Post in this in a legal advice forum such as http://www.allexperts.com/
There's a few others but I'm on my phone.

This is a relatively straightforward question so you'll get a fast answer. Some of these rent laws vary within your local municipal and state so you need a lawyer from your state to answer this.
« Last Edit: Wed, 19 March 2014, 21:44:11 by the1onewolf »

Offline intelli78

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Re: Any lawyers? Housemate in charge of rent has been pocketing $...
« Reply #2 on: Wed, 19 March 2014, 21:34:16 »
Thanks, I have posted on a site called AVVO.
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Offline Vibex

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Re: Any lawyers? Housemate in charge of rent has been pocketing $...
« Reply #3 on: Wed, 19 March 2014, 21:36:01 »
That really sucks dude. I hope everything works out alright.

Offline intelli78

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Re: Any lawyers? Housemate in charge of rent has been pocketing $...
« Reply #4 on: Wed, 19 March 2014, 21:41:41 »
That really sucks dude. I hope everything works out alright.

Thanks man. I don't actually think I am going to be liable for anything, since I am not on the lease. Just trying to verify that. It may suck a lot more for my other roommates who are on the lease. I am just trying to get the final word on the legal perspective, so that I can decide, what, if anything I will do to help them from an ethical perspective. (e.g., kick them some money if they have to pay)
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Offline iri

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Re: Any lawyers? Housemate in charge of rent has been pocketing $...
« Reply #5 on: Thu, 20 March 2014, 03:40:45 »
where is the "thief" himself?
(...)Whereas back then I wrote about the tyranny of the majority, today I'd combine that with the tyranny of the minorities. These days, you have to be careful of both. They both want to control you. The first group, by making you do the same thing over and over again. The second group is indicated by the letters I get from the Vassar girls who want me to put more women's lib in The Martian Chronicles, or from blacks who want more black people in Dandelion Wine.
I say to both bunches, Whether you're a majority or minority, bug off! To hell with anybody who wants to tell me what to write. Their society breaks down into subsections of minorities who then, in effect, burn books by banning them. All this political correctness that's rampant on campuses is b.s.

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Offline HipsterPunks

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Re: Any lawyers? Housemate in charge of rent has been pocketing $...
« Reply #6 on: Thu, 20 March 2014, 04:16:19 »
That really sucks dude. I hope everything works out alright.

Thanks man. I don't actually think I am going to be liable for anything, since I am not on the lease. Just trying to verify that. It may suck a lot more for my other roommates who are on the lease. I am just trying to get the final word on the legal perspective, so that I can decide, what, if anything I will do to help them from an ethical perspective. (e.g., kick them some money if they have to pay)

Same thing happened to me, the landlord sent us a letter to appear in court for unpaid rent. Turns out one of my roomates who collected the money was pocketing some of it. I wasnt on the lease dispite living there for 2 years, i didnt have to appear. Our house was in terrible shape so we called the state and it got condemned. So the court case was dropped. Best of luck to you!
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Offline berserkfan

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Re: Any lawyers? Housemate in charge of rent has been pocketing $...
« Reply #7 on: Thu, 20 March 2014, 13:14:56 »
Assuming the laws in your state have no special quirks...

1) You have no obligation to go. Nor do you have the right to show up, except to watch the proceedings as a member of the public. Your roommates can call on you as a witness but you can't insert yourself into the action without their say so.

2) You are not a 'party' to this action, as I said above. You can go ahead and help your roommates with cash or whatever, but you are not obliged to, unless you insist on producing a written contract and signing it with your roommates.

3) No receipts = no evidence. Pretty tough to prove your story even though oral testimony is not excluded. But you don't need monthly receipts. If you paid this guy sometimes via check, you probably have a few months' worth of payments on your bank statements.

4) Usually your roommates (whoever's got his name on the list) will be held liable. Most cases like this are straightfoward. Whoever who shows up will often get hit with the full amount claimed, unless he can convince the judge otherwise. If nobody shows up, judgment to plaintiff, then they'll try to look for somebody's workplace and serve him some garnishes and whipped potato. AKA Sheriff shows up and talks to his boss with a court order.

5) To physically evict you guys will require yet another court order. Landlord is never allowed to show up with some thugs and throw you into the street. Until the Baliff actually comes with a piece of paper, landlord is not permitted to enter your place or lock you out or do anything unfriendly like turning off the heating.

LASTLY:
The law assumes that when you form a rooming relationship with other people and put your names on the lease, you know or trust each other. It's ridiculous to expect the landlord, a company or an absentee owner or some elderly pensioner trying to make some money from his property, to know which ones of you guys has been trusted with money and who absconded with money.
If you guys didn't make sure that the guy whom you paid actually paid the landlord, too bad. He can abscond and there's not much you can do about it, except tracking him down in another state and suing him. Sure, his name may be mentioned in a judgment in this jurisdiction against him, but it's not important unless he eventually applies for a legal job, law enforcement job or banking job (the background checks are very strict for these occupations).

BTW which jurisdiction are you in? State X, County Y? Whenever you want to ask people for advice, at least give better information. Asking any legal aid bureau will entail giving these details, so that people can advise you based on the laws applicable to you.

OH, and what I say must not be construed as legal advice. It's just BS I cooked up  :p for the entertainment of geekhackers. We have no relationship and no money has passed between the two of us  :cool:
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Offline intelli78

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Re: Any lawyers? Housemate in charge of rent has been pocketing $...
« Reply #8 on: Thu, 20 March 2014, 14:00:31 »
Thanks very much to everyone who responded, especially to berserkfan for the detail. I met with the housemates last night, including the alleged "thief," and it turns out that the secondhand information we had was very wrong. He hadn't been pocketing the money, but a check bounced because one housemate (who has already moved out) failed to pay rent. The situation is much less dire than we thought and it looks like it will only be a minor inconvenience to pay the back rent. :thumb:
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Offline Vibex

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Re: Any lawyers? Housemate in charge of rent has been pocketing $...
« Reply #9 on: Thu, 20 March 2014, 14:18:17 »
Thanks very much to everyone who responded, especially to berserkfan for the detail. I met with the housemates last night, including the alleged "thief," and it turns out that the secondhand information we had was very wrong. He hadn't been pocketing the money, but a check bounced because one housemate (who has already moved out) failed to pay rent. The situation is much less dire than we thought and it looks like it will only be a minor inconvenience to pay the back rent. :thumb:
Well thats good, glad that it wasn't as bad as you thought.

Offline berserkfan

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Re: Any lawyers? Housemate in charge of rent has been pocketing $...
« Reply #10 on: Mon, 24 March 2014, 00:56:07 »
Thanks very much to everyone who responded, especially to berserkfan for the detail. I met with the housemates last night, including the alleged "thief," and it turns out that the secondhand information we had was very wrong. He hadn't been pocketing the money, but a check bounced because one housemate (who has already moved out) failed to pay rent. The situation is much less dire than we thought and it looks like it will only be a minor inconvenience to pay the back rent. :thumb:

Sorry for the delayed reply!

But this is a lesson in several ways:

1) landlord's pretty nasty. Normally they will at least try and get in touch with you over rental issues.
I don't know the laws in Ariz of course, but in the vast majority of jurisdictions in and outside the US, normally there would be things like a letter of demand or reminder that you haven't paid your rent. An eviction summons out of the blue is extreme. It won't even be acceptable in many places - eg landlord in other places may have to show he at least tried to contact you guys and ask for rent, give you time to make good the shortfall, etc. Sounds as though you're renting from a seriously major corporation with nationwide reach such as Blackstone, that doesn't hesitate to shoot out form letters and get their local lackeys/ lawyers to process lots of cases. (ie not an individual landlord, or a relatively small local company)

2) Being able to trust your housemates is important. Law assumes people who live together have an element of trust. Anybody who skips on rent, bounces checks, etc. is a liability to all of you, because you will never, even if you hire a $1000/hour lawyer, talk your way out of stuff like rent. Laws are long established in these areas, and for good reason, since lawmakers from the Founding Fathers to John McCain (who owns more houses than he can remember) have always been major property owners.

Hope in future you can get a better landlord. I would suggest you remember the name of the rental corporation, and avoid them the next time you move.
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