I took the red pill!

[rdjack21]

Well I've been lurking on GeekHack for oh going on a year or so and now that it was time to decide I took the red pill.

So how did it all start.

Found a old Model M at a used computer store in a big pile of junk boards and got it cheap. Took it home pluged it in and used it for about 3-4 months and decided I had to have one for work. Which lead me to Unicomp and a customizer (black). Ended up getting 2 of those one for home and one for work.

After using the BS boards for another 6 months or so decided I really wanted to try other mechanical boards so went searching (including here).

That led to me getting 1 Scorpius M10 then another as I really liked it. But I'm still not totally happy

So well naturally I came over here a lurked some more

Ended up ordering a ABS M1 from newegg (Should be here on Monday)  

While lurking some more I found that there is a new US based store to get filco boards but was not sure I really wanted to spend $100 for a board as none of the boards I had purchased yet had been quite that expensive. Then I made the mistake of taking a look in the market place (which I had not done before) and found out rio was selling a Realforce 91UBK  after taking to long thinking about it I signed up and PM rio but low and behold he sold it. Also at about the same time itlnstln offered up some boards as well and one of them had brown cherries (Compaq MX-11800) I grabed that one fast as I figured it would be a good board to try out the browns.

The problem as I see it is that I really have the bug now. I don't think I'm really going to be satisfied until I can get my hands on a realforce board or a HHKB Pro 2 But which one? I will say I really like the new one (87U). I really like black boards don't ask why as I don't know I just like them.

But crazy me now that I've signed up and all I dig around some more and find the  keyboard modifications forum and what is the first thread on there? "Rit dye and keys" Oh man I'm truly lost now I just love what iMav did to his HHKB Makes me think I want the 86U instead then dye the keys Or the white HHKB with dyed keys.

But the real question all of this leads to. How do I get my hands on one of the Realforce boards or even the HHKB. I have no clue as to how I would order one of these boards. I do see that benippon.com has both the HHKB and the Realforce 86U in white (I really want black). I see that geekstuff4u.com has the HHKB but not the Realforce boards. So any pointers as too where a new be would buy one or both of these boards? And the process for actually ordering one. In particular the 87U as I think I really want to start with that one then get the HHKB down the road a bit.

[kyamei]

Your wallet will hate you for taking that red pill, mine sure does.  But at least your fingers will love you.

As for getting Realforce/HHKBs, I personally got my Realforce off benippon and my HHKB off ebay.  Other people seem to be using Japan buying services like j-goods or crescent shop, both of which will play the role of "middle man" so you can buy from Japanese stores that don't ship internationally.

[rdjack21]

Your wallet will hate you for taking that red pill, mine sure does.  But at least your fingers will love you.

As for getting Realforce/HHKBs, I personally got my Realforce off benippon and my HHKB off ebay.  Other people seem to be using Japan buying services like j-goods or crescent shop, both of which will play the role of "middle man" so you can buy from Japanese stores that don't ship internationally.

Yea the wallet is going to get thin real quick when I start ordering Realforce/HHKB. I just have to figure out which one I want to get first. I'm not sure I want to go strait to the HHKB and the new layout so I'm leaning towards getting a realforce first then get a HHKB a little later. Getting the 86U does not look to be that bad but the new 87U that I really like may be more of a problem even for the veterans. I really hope that which ever one does gets one will tell use new people how to do it before they are all gone.

[xsphat]

I also have a Realforce 86U and an HHKB Pro 2. They are great keyboards, and as for deciding which one is for you, think about how you'll use it. If you have the desk space and prefer the standard layout, the 86U or 87U is for you. I like my layout at home to be tiny, so I only use the HHKB Pro 2 at home as of late, but at work I like the standard layout, so I use an IBM M4-1. I'm loaning my Realforce to a friend right now because I simply don't use it.

EDIT: and in a way, I too took the red pill. The reason I haven't been using my great keyboards more is I bought an Alphasmart Neo. It is so good for writing because all it is is a word processor — no browser, no pr0n, no chat — the 21st century typewriter.

[rdjack21]

I also have a Realforce 86U and an HHKB Pro 2. They are great keyboards, and as for deciding which one is for you, think about how you'll use it. If you have the desk space and prefer the standard layout, the 86U or 87U is for you. I like my layout at home to be tiny, so I only use the HHKB Pro 2 at home as of late, but at work I like the standard layout, so I use an IBM M4-1. I'm loaning my Realforce to a friend right now because I simply don't use it.

Desk space is not a problem. And yes I think I would really prefer the standard layout which is why I'm leaning towards the 87U as a fist board. I'm actually think I'm going to try and get the 87U through Crescent-Shop.

EDIT: and in a way, I too took the red pill. The reason I haven't been using my great keyboards more is I bought an Alphasmart Neo. It is so good for writing because all it is is a word processor — no browser, no pr0n, no chat — the 21st century typewriter.

I'm going to be ordering two EPC1000HE (10" 9.5hr battery N280 Atom). I'm getting them for the kids but I will be using them as well. I really need Web as I have most of my tech books in either PDF or HTML so I will be using them for reading not typing. Of course I will be wiping windows off them and putting Linux on them and adding more ram. Haven't decided if I will be putting a SSD in them yet. But they will really make a nice first computer for the kids and a nice reading machine for me when I can pry them out of the kids hands.

[Busty]

I'm going to be ordering two EPC1000HE (10" 9.5hr battery N280 Atom). I'm getting them for the kids but I will be using them as well. I really need Web as I have most of my tech books in either PDF or HTML so I will be using them for reading not typing. Of course I will be wiping windows off them and putting Linux on them and adding more ram. Haven't decided if I will be putting a SSD in them yet. But they will really make a nice first computer for the kids and a nice reading machine for me when I can pry them out of the kids hands.

Since 2 years if now been waiting for a Netbook that is also useful for reading pdf. The OLPC had a great screen, but the rest just didn't do it for me. I tried an Aspire ONE, but 600px height isn't very much. I am now waiting for a tablet netbook like the announced eeePC T101.  Let us know how the eeePC 1000HE works for you.

[rdjack21]

Since 2 years if now been waiting for a Netbook that is also useful for reading pdf. The OLPC had a great screen, but the rest just didn't do it for me. I tried an Aspire ONE, but 600px height isn't very much. I am now waiting for a tablet netbook like the announced eeePC T101.  Let us know how the eeePC 1000HE works for you.

Yea the screen resolution (1024 x 600) is a little thin and I think is really the only thing slowing down adoption on them. Most of the stuff I need to read though is in HTML and only a little in PDF so I should be ok.

[rdjack21]

Well the red pill has really kicked in I just placed an order with Crescent Shop for the 87U.. Man I hope I don't regret this. But I don't think I will. But when my wife sees the bill she is going to flip

[xsphat]

Well the red pill has really kicked in I just placed an order with Crescent Shop for the 87U.. Man I hope I don't regret this. But I don't think I will. But when my wife sees the bill she is going to flip

Be strong, and don't be surprised if this keyboard purchase somehow means you have to buy her a car.

[rdjack21]

Be strong, and don't be surprised if this keyboard purchase somehow means you have to buy her a car.

LOL That is good. At least I have a budget for doing things like this so I should not get in too much trouble But it does mean that I may have to wait a bit on upgrading my computer But at least with computer parts they tend to go down. Good keyboards on the other hand seem to hold their value and instead of getting cheaper over time they just get more expensive at least the new ones do that is.

[xsphat]

ME and my wife have separate accounts. That is how a marriage should work.

[dougy]

Good Lord, is the Neo a repackaged Newton emate?

[xyzzy]

But at least with computer parts they tend to go down.

But by that time there will be newer faster better cooler more expensive parts that you'll want.

[bhtooefr]

Nope, the eMate ran Newton OS, and could actually run applications.

The Neo is a word processor only.

The Dana, OTOH, is closer to the eMate in spirit, but runs Palm OS. (4.1, I believe.)

[itlnstln]

But by that time there will be newer faster better cooler more expensive parts that you'll want.

*Sigh*

Just like keyboards.

[bhtooefr]

I must admit, keyboard shopping was simpler before I found this forum.

"Hrm, there's a cheap Model M at Goodwill, I'll get another one to keep around as a spare."

[itlnstln]

I must admit, keyboard shopping was simpler before I found this forum.

"Hrm, there's a cheap Model M at Goodwill, I'll get another one to keep around as a spare."

QFT.  Other than Model Ms it was, "do I buy this POS, or that POS?"

[rdjack21]

But by that time there will be newer faster better cooler more expensive parts that you'll want.

So true I just got a SSD so I'm hopping the speed increase from that will help me resist a little longer.

[lal]

So true I just got a SSD so I'm hopping the speed increase from that will help me resist a little longer.

You got an Intel X25?  Otherwise you won't get much of an increase in speed.

[rdjack21]

You got an Intel X25?  Otherwise you won't get much of an increase in speed.

Nope I ended up getting the new OCz Vertext 30g that newegg had on sale a week or so ago for $100. This is the Newest of the SSD's and is pretty close to the Intel X25. I intend to use it for a boot/app drive only. Take a look at this review over at AnandTech which thoroughly explains what OCz did to make this new SSD about the best value SSD you can get your hands on right now.
http://anandtech.com/storage/showdoc.aspx?i=3531
This one is a follow up after the vertex started shipping.
http://www.anandtech.com/storage/showdoc.aspx?i=3535

I just could not bring myself to spend what Intel wants for the X25 at this point. I would prefer to spend the money on a good keyboard (Realforce). Maybe later I will look at the X25 but for now this one will do what I need it to do (It smokes my raptor)

[BigWopHH]

The Vertex is going to be a nice step up from any mechanical hard drive...I'm testing one now as well...

[Ski11z]

But didn't i hear SSD have some write speed issues currently making them not worth the jump, or has that all been fixed.

I hear Samsung coming out with a new SSD which is speed nasty:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_CO8DQmbf50

[keyb_gr]

But didn't i hear SSD have some write speed issues currently making them not worth the jump, or has that all been fixed.

This primarily affects those with (cheapo) MLC flash and (cheapo) cacheless controllers. You get what you pay for. There is some software to achieve much smoother operation even on those though.

[Manyak]

This primarily affects those with (cheapo) MLC flash and (cheapo) cacheless controllers. You get what you pay for. There is some software to achieve much smoother operation even on those though.

It affects all MLC SSDs, including Intel's. The thing is that there's an algorithm in the controller that keeps telling it to use unused blocks of memory when writing. But eventually all the blocks will end up being marked as used, even though there is free space in the operating system (deleting a file from the file system does not physically remove it from the drive). So every month or two, to keep the performance going, you'll need to issue a SECURE_ERASE command to the drive. This will restore it to factory condition.

[keyb_gr]

So every month or two, to keep the performance going, you'll need to issue a SECURE_ERASE command to the drive. This will restore it to factory condition.

That reminds me of harddrives at like... umm... around the time the Model M was released. In those days a regular format was not uncommon.

[rdjack21]

It affects all MLC SSDs, including Intel's. The thing is that there's an algorithm in the controller that keeps telling it to use unused blocks of memory when writing. But eventually all the blocks will end up being marked as used, even though there is free space in the operating system (deleting a file from the file system does not physically remove it from the drive). So every month or two, to keep the performance going, you'll need to issue a SECURE_ERASE command to the drive. This will restore it to factory condition.

That is true on most drives but the newer ones are getting much better at solving this problem. Basically the problem is that once the drive fills up to write anything the block has to first be erased (slow) then written. I think the new firmware of the intel drive and the Vortex drives are using idle time to do the actual erase thus eliminating/reduce the need to do the SECURE_ERASE. Besides these drives as they are now should only be used for Boot/Application drives so that they are mostly Read only drives. In this use case you can't beat them. That is how I'm using my Vertex drive and at this point I would use nothing else for a boot/application drive than a SSD.

[IBI]

It affects all MLC SSDs, including Intel's. The thing is that there's an algorithm in the controller that keeps telling it to use unused blocks of memory when writing. But eventually all the blocks will end up being marked as used, even though there is free space in the operating system (deleting a file from the file system does not physically remove it from the drive). So every month or two, to keep the performance going, you'll need to issue a SECURE_ERASE command to the drive. This will restore it to factory condition.

That's a different issue, and the effects are only going to be similar to an HDD slowing down as it fills up (i.e. unnoticible in most circumstances). The SSD speeds are no big issue at the moment anyway, most people aren't transfering large lumps of data around their hard drives and the only home external device that'll accept that sort of speed is another SSD, things like USB sticks, pocket media players and external hard drives are all limited to below the speed that a normal hard drive can transfer to them.

The big issue with some SSDs (it was never all of them) was massive delays in writing, with half a second to a second's pause before something got written, which resulted in a noticible freeze for the system (the OS writes stuff all the time). I don't think it was even caused by hardware but simply by bad progamming, the Anandtech link given earlier recounts the story of how the Indilinx Barefoot chip initially had this problem in the pre-release sample but they updated the firmware and fix it in time for the release.

[Des]

I'd just thought I'd toss in a hint here.  I jumped on the SSD bandwagon pretty early on and have since changed a few times.
The good thing about SSD's is that as new tech not a lot do their research and Ive been able to sell 4 for the same price I bought them for thus letting me upgrade to new controllers as they'v become avalible. Pretty nifty.
Just a hint sure but its damned useful.
Pcper.com discovered some of theese issues with an x25 a while back,  and intel fixed that one easy with firmware update. (No I havent jumped on thoose pricey buggers.)

But yea, different chips makes for a lot of difference not so much the access times though, they are just screaming wichever you choose.
If your looking to updating to SSD in a laptp, buying one now is easy since most laptops cant handle the comming faster ssd's since they dont run the sata at full speed (macbooks suffer from this for instance). [articles on this all over the place quickest/best easiest description I think was on a pcper video through twit, (also on their site)

Also next generation jump is seemingly comming this summer, so if you don't wanna buy now and update again, most tech sites  says that get one now if your on a laptop. But wait until this summer if your on desktop.

But again..  Its been easy selling SSDs on the used market for good prices.

[bigpook]

I must admit, keyboard shopping was simpler before I found this forum.

"Hrm, there's a cheap Model M at Goodwill, I'll get another one to keep around as a spare."

I can agree with that. I found out about unicomp after much searching and shortly thereafter discovered geekhack. Its been quite a ride since then.
I simply had no idea outside of logitech and ms product; except maybe the HHKB lite. But lets not talk about that : )

[o2dazone]

I blame the people that have nothing but good things to say about an HHKB or Realforce. If you all had just said "Capacitive switches are mushy, stay away" then I could be happy with two boards lol

[bigpook]

psst. the HHKB has rubber domes. 300 bucks for rubber domes? somebody got suckered. : )

[o2dazone]

much better, thank you

[CrapTypist]

My Realforce has rubber domes, but I think they're filled with some sort of opiate, because I get this big smile on my face whenever I get to type on it.