leopold 660C vs realforce 55g

[blingcaps]

i currently own a filco minila brown and a kbt pure pro red and looking to trying out my first topre.

i'm a huge fan of the 60% form factor, hence why i own two of them already.  however, due to the way the leopold is designed it's actually not much smaller than a TKL, which naturally means for me it also competes against the TKL.

so i guess i comes down to the 60%+ on 45g vs the RF TKL 55g, and i'm not sure what to decide.

i use my reds at work and browns at home and i like typing on them both.

EK has a sale for the RF right now so it's only a $10 difference.

any tips are appreciate.  thanks!

[rowdy]

HHKB?

[blingcaps]

lack of arrow keys is a deal breaker.

[1pq]

however, due to the way the leopold is designed it's actually not much smaller than a TKL, which naturally means for me it also competes against the TKL.

The leo is actually quite small. It's only about 1.5u wider than standard 60% keyboards, which is a large difference in width and height from TKL boards.

[rowdy]

i currently own a filco minila brown and a kbt pure pro red and looking to trying out my first topre.

i'm a huge fan of the 60% form factor, hence why i own two of them already.  however, due to the way the leopold is designed it's actually not much smaller than a TKL, which naturally means for me it also competes against the TKL.

so i guess i comes down to the 60%+ on 45g vs the RF TKL 55g, and i'm not sure what to decide.

i use my reds at work and browns at home and i like typing on them both.

EK has a sale for the RF right now so it's only a $10 difference.

any tips are appreciate.  thanks!

Hence the FC660C

[Beca]

the leopold is much smaller than a TKL, not sure where you saw that they were only slightly smaller.

[ViciousWhiskers]

He probably just meant the arrow key cluster making the board a tad bit longer than normal 60%'s, so it'd be something in-between TKL and 60%.

[daerid]

If you're looking for a 60%/compact board, go with the 660C. It's keys actually feel a bit stiffer than the HHKB, very crisp. And IMO the layout can't be beat for a small form factor.

[blingcaps]

the leopold is much smaller than a TKL, not sure where you saw that they were only slightly smaller.

[blingcaps]

i don't care about the height difference because i don't put my mouse above the keyboard ;-)

i'm surprised no one has mentioned anything about 45g vs 55g.

[Beca]

the leopold is much smaller than a TKL, not sure where you saw that they were only slightly smaller.

Show Image

The Leopold the same width as any other 60%, and literally 1.5 keys longer. The difference is negligible (I've owned one, and a TKL) between the 660 and another 60%, especially if the lack of dedicated arrow keys is a dealbreaker for you.

[daerid]

i'm surprised no one has mentioned anything about 45g vs 55g.

TBH it's not that different. The 660C may be the same domes as a HHKB, but to me it felt in between a HHKB and a 55g RF. I found the 660C to be a pleasure to type on.

[rowdy]

the leopold is much smaller than a TKL, not sure where you saw that they were only slightly smaller.

Show Image

Interesting - the left side of the, say, Tab keys are aligned, but the right side of the FC660C backslash is further to the right.

Is there a slightly larger gap between the keys on the FC660C?

It is not much though.  If you remove the arrow keys and ins/del you would end up with a keyboard only marginally wider than most other 60% boards.

[RESPRiT]

60% boards get a lot smaller because of the lack of the function row. Sure, lengthwise they're not that much smaller, but the overall surface area is definitely smaller. As far as arrow keys, after getting a HHKB, I actually prefer fn layer arrows to the Leopold arrows, but I guess that's just personal preference.

[alosec]

trust me when I say this: the leopold 660c is smaller than you think. the box it ships in is smaller than a cereal box.

it feels like a EXTREMELY SLIGHTLY longer 60%.

do not trust your eyes when all you have to look at are images

[Matt3o]

the leopold is much smaller than a TKL, not sure where you saw that they were only slightly smaller.

Show Image

Hey! that's my image! :P

the leopold is much smaller than a TKL, not sure where you saw that they were only slightly smaller.

Show Image

Interesting - the left side of the, say, Tab keys are aligned, but the right side of the FC660C backslash is further to the right.

Is there a slightly larger gap between the keys on the FC660C?

It is not much though.  If you remove the arrow keys and ins/del you would end up with a keyboard only marginally wider than most other 60% boards.

It's just perspective.

Okay.

I have both Realforce 55g and Leopold 660C (45g of course). I prefer the form factor of the Leopold, it's a really nice and small keyboard, much smaller than a realforce and just a bit bigger than a 60%. I totally love the layout.

The actuation point of the Leopold is higher (nearer to the top) than a realforce, making the key press very soft actually.

That being said, 55g all the way. I'm using 55g domes inside the Leopold and that's pure perfection. But if I had to choose between 45g leopold or 55g realforce, well, 55g wins hands down.

[1pq]

That being said, 55g all the way. I'm using 55g domes inside the Leopold and that's pure perfection. But if I had to choose between 45g leopold or 55g realforce, well, 55g wins hands down.

I've always wanted to try this. Do you prefer the 55g Leo to the 55g Realforce? How do they differ in feel (besides the actuation thing)?

[Matt3o]

That being said, 55g all the way. I'm using 55g domes inside the Leopold and that's pure perfection. But if I had to choose between 45g leopold or 55g realforce, well, 55g wins hands down.

I've always wanted to try this. Do you prefer the 55g Leo to the 55g Realforce? How do they differ in feel (besides the actuation thing)?

The Leopold has a very nice sound, if you type fast it's almost like rain drops (this is it). I prefer it to the realforce actually. Like I said Leopold has a higher actuation point, I needed few days to get used to it, but with 55g dome is just fine. Consider that the PCB of the Leopold is made by Topre itself, so top quality.

Leopold + 55g is my daily driver right now.

[1pq]

That being said, 55g all the way. I'm using 55g domes inside the Leopold and that's pure perfection. But if I had to choose between 45g leopold or 55g realforce, well, 55g wins hands down.

I've always wanted to try this. Do you prefer the 55g Leo to the 55g Realforce? How do they differ in feel (besides the actuation thing)?

The Leopold has a very nice sound, if you type fast it's almost like rain drops (this is it). I prefer it to the realforce actually. Like I said Leopold has a higher actuation point, I needed few days to get used to it, but with 55g dome is just fine. Consider that the PCB of the Leopold is made by Topre itself, so top quality.

Leopold + 55g is my daily driver right now.

Cool, thanks for sharing. I used to use a FC660C with 45g, but I've since sold it to buy a 87U with 55g. If I like 55g enough but miss the form factor of the Leopold, I may try this.

[hcry4]

All this 55g talk is making me damn curious. I really need to sell some more stuff to get Spam's 55g HHKB bundle.

[1pq]

A broken HHKB for $375? No thank you!
I'm not trying to be rude, but if you think the keycaps/bingecaps are worth paying more than what you'd pay on EK, then go right ahead. I know I certainly wouldn't, though.

[Matt3o]

buy the 55g realforce.

You can later put the domes wherever you want.

[Dyslexic]

The discussion seems settled on the 55g vs 45g topres, but I'll toss another vote for the FC660C form factor. I'm so in love with this board it's silly. The lack of fn-layer makes a huge difference on the size of the board. As I've mentioned before, the ins/del cluster is also great for displaying novelty keycaps.

[hcry4]

A broken HHKB for $375? No thank you!
I'm not trying to be rude, but if you think the keycaps/bingecaps are worth paying more than what you'd pay on EK, then go right ahead. I know I certainly wouldn't, though.

$260 HHKB, $199 55g Realforce, $78 extra caps, $50 case, $4.50 Red Esc, $20 for Chili Hot, $25 for Smoky 1, and $25 for Smoky 2 totals to $661.50 before tax/shipping. My popping open the HHKB will probably give similar results. Also, I'd have an extra keyboard and parts that I won't use. So, no, it's not more than EK, if you break it all down.

[RESPRiT]

A broken HHKB for $375? No thank you!
I'm not trying to be rude, but if you think the keycaps/bingecaps are worth paying more than what you'd pay on EK, then go right ahead. I know I certainly wouldn't, though.

$260 HHKB, $199 55g Realforce, $78 extra caps, $50 case, $4.50 Red Esc, $20 for Chili Hot, $25 for Smoky 1, and $25 for Smoky 2 totals to $661.50 before tax/shipping. My popping open the HHKB will probably give similar results. Also, I'd have an extra keyboard and parts that I won't use. So, no, it's not more than EK, if you break it all down.

To be fair, you're not getting all of that (adding the Realforce cost is overkill ) and it is in fact used. I'm not saying Spam's price is too high, but your breakdown is a bit too high. The cost breakdown in his OP is fair IMO, though.

[blingcaps]

well, EK's sale ended....now it's $199 for the variable weighted, and i'm pretty sure i won't like that.  guess it's the 660C for me.  thanks for the responses!

[1pq]

Wow, I must have gotten one of the last ones before they ended the sale. Too bad you couldn't get one
If only the silent version would go on sale now...

[Mr. C]

Not that it'll help your decision but I currently own FC660C, HHKB, RF 87UW 45g, RF 87UB 55g, RF 104-DK 45g. The FC660Cis my favorite to type on. The 87U  is big for TKL but I prefer the layout. The 55g is to heavy for my old hands, it feel very similar to my IBM SSK.  45g is the sweet spot for Topre and the Leopold is the sweetest of my 45g boards.  Eventually I'm going to buy another RF 87U, sell the 55g sell the HHKB, sell the SSK sell most of my cherry boards and call it good.  Good luck with what you end up with.

[aref]

Not that it'll help your decision but I currently own FC660C, HHKB, RF 87UW 45g, RF 87UB 55g, RF 104-DK 45g. The FC660Cis my favorite to type on. The 87U  is big for TKL but I prefer the layout. The 55g is to heavy for my old hands, it feel very similar to my IBM SSK.  45g is the sweet spot for Topre and the Leopold is the sweetest of my 45g boards.  Eventually I'm going to buy another RF 87U, sell the 55g sell the HHKB, sell the SSK sell most of my cherry boards and call it good.  Good luck with what you end up with.

Does the 45g Topre switch on the FC660C feel the same as a 45g switch on an 87U or is there a difference in feel?

[Mr. C]

There is a difference. The FC660C feels slightly heavier and snappier. I think the 87U 45g is a little light, maybe less than HHKB or Leopold, but it is subtle and I haven't measured it. My 104-DK 45g feels heavier as well almost like the 55g. But it is brand new. It may well be just production variance between boards or the different ages.  I have old hands, beat up and arthritis, so you youngsters may not notice any of this. 30 years ago, buckling spring was my favorite, but now I like Topre 45's. Another 20 years I may need 30g uniform. ;`)

[aref]

I appreciate your response and feel the same about the 87U with 45g Topre switches; the switch in a Realforce is too light for me. It's good to know the Leopold with 45g Topres feels a little heavier. Thanks for such an insightful reply.

[Mr. C]

SSKGuy, you are welcome. Take it with a grain of salt as it is just subjective opinion. I looked back at your old posts, we have similar taste. I still use a couple of CMQFR/Blues at my remote office. I like them. I have Filco TKL with Blues that I never used because it doesn't feel/sound (pingy) as good as the cheap CMS boards. I may try your shelf paper on my blues to see if I like that better. I also note in your sig that your 87UB 55g has white keys as does mine. Although I plan to move those keys to 87UB 45g soon. We must be twin sons of different mothers. ;-)

[aref]

Mr. C:  Indeed, we may well be kindred souls. I, too, moved my Realforce white/gray keys to my 87U and sold the beige KB with all black keys.

I prefer the sound of CMQFR to the Filcos I've had. All the Filcos have pinged quiet a lot. And when I added shelf liner to the CMQFR, it dampened the keyboard to where only six or seven keys have any ping. I prefer CM to Filco. The shelf liner, a GH tip I received, worked really well. I was going to use self-adhesive weather stripping, which I may one day try. I also prefer the profile of CM's key caps to Filco's. I've been thinking of getting a CMQFR Stealth, I like the front-printed/blank top key caps. Also, I do like the volume control on the CM KBs.

I's also looking into a Leopold FC700R, graphite/MX Blue; but at twice the price (including postage from Malaysia) of a CMQFR, I'm not sure its' worth the expense. MX Blue switches are my Cherry switches of choice. They're easy on one's aging, my, digits; yet have sufficient resistance so I don't lose key-strike feel. I come from the days of manual typewriters, and I've retained my heavy handedness over these many, many decades.

Thanks again for the responses, kindred keyboard brother.

GH: Mea Culpa for diverting responses from the original post.