Fingers hurting

[Red0y0s]

Hi all,

I've used a logitech dinovo edge keyboard for years now for coding, I've recently bought a ducky shine 3 (blue switch) and added some ghetto o-rings(thanks to a post I saw here) my fingers are hurting a bit after day 4, I've now removed the o-rings thinking this will help as they felt a bit weird.

Do I need to get used to this keyboard or something? I would hate to return this as I like the tactile feedback. I shall be receiving my filco wrist rest tomorrow, not sure how much this will help though?

Should I just persevere?
 
Just wanted to know your thoughts and I'm on my 8th bud

[JinDesu]

When you say hurt, are you bottoming out?

[Red0y0s]

When you say hurt, are you bottoming out?

I guess so as I'm not used to typing on a mechanical keyboard, my fingers hurt ever since I added my ghetto o-rings for some reason, I've since removed them and it's a little better.

I only added the o-rings as this is a damn loud keyboard!

[Linkbane]

When you say hurt, are you bottoming out?

I guess so as I'm not used to typing on a mechanical keyboard, my fingers hurt ever since I added my ghetto o-rings for some reason, I've since removed them and it's a little better.

I only added the o-rings as this is a damn loud keyboard!

Well, you're definitely not going for Blues because of low noise! Typing more gently almost always helps with typing soreness, as does stretching your fingers and taking short breaks. Experience was some RSI experienced a few months ago from overpractice (specifically on Blues).

[rowdy]

The Logitech keyboard looks pretty slim, the Ducky Shine is a taller keyboard.  Have you considered using a wrist rest?  Maybe you're resting too much hand weight on your fingers.

NOT saying that you should rest your wrists on the wrist rest WHILE you are typing, but between bouts of typing you can more easily rest on the wrist rest than on the desk.

[Txduck]

When you say hurt, are you bottoming out?

I guess so as I'm not used to typing on a mechanical keyboard, my fingers hurt ever since I added my ghetto o-rings for some reason, I've since removed them and it's a little better.

I only added the o-rings as this is a damn loud keyboard!

Well, you're definitely not going for Blues because of low noise! Typing more gently almost always helps with typing soreness, as does stretching your fingers and taking short breaks. Experience was some RSI experienced a few months ago from overpractice (specifically on Blues).

I think JinDesu was trying to find out if you were experiencing fingertip soreness from bottoming out or is it whole finger muscle soreness? Those are two different issues.

[False_Dmitry_II]

If the O-rings helped alot with the noise, then you're bottoming out fairly hard. May want to try and limit that, or go buckling springs instead.

[matt303]

I've been getting a bit of pain down the right side if my right hand using my full size Ducky with blues at work for coding here are a few things I've noticed in case any of them help:

1) Typing style, noticed I have a bad habit of using the right-shift for { } : which get used quite a lot, trying to reprogram myself to use the left-shift more.
2) Height of board, as others has said maybe try a wrist rest.
3) Keyboard position, this is something I've noticed after using a compact keyboard is my full size board means the main block of keys is offset to the left causing bad posture.
4) Key weight, I always had a thing about having clicky keys so went for the blues but having used browns quite a bit with my Poker II I'm changing my view and enjoy the slightly lighter action, seriously looking at 45g Topre now.

Just a few things I've noticed, hope you find a solution.

[Red0y0s]

Just received my wrist rest and awesome o-rings and this helped a lot.

Thanks for the comments lads

Now after 10 years or so with computers, I just need to learn to touch type lol

[Red0y0s]

When you say hurt, are you bottoming out?

I guess so as I'm not used to typing on a mechanical keyboard, my fingers hurt ever since I added my ghetto o-rings for some reason, I've since removed them and it's a little better.

I only added the o-rings as this is a damn loud keyboard!

Well, you're definitely not going for Blues because of low noise! Typing more gently almost always helps with typing soreness, as does stretching your fingers and taking short breaks. Experience was some RSI experienced a few months ago from overpractice (specifically on Blues).

I think JinDesu was trying to find out if you were experiencing fingertip soreness from bottoming out or is it whole finger muscle soreness? Those are two different issues.

Defo fingertip soreness, but that's cos I am mashing my keyboard need to learn how to touch type me thinks !

[JinDesu]

Yeah, I used to bottom out a lot with my old membrane keyboard and it was hurting the tips of my fingers towards the end of the day from work. It would be a sharp pinprick feeling on the tips of my typing fingers (so not right pinky and not my thumbs) and I couldn't figure it out for the longest while. Then I found out about mech keyboards and got myself a Filco MX blue and learned to type without bottoming out. My issues all went away from that.

Definitely try learning to type with just enough force to activate the blues and not push all the way down hard. I still bottom out, especially with unfamiliar words/symbols, but definitely not as hard as I used to now that I react to the click and tactile response.

[Red0y0s]

Yeah, I used to bottom out a lot with my old membrane keyboard and it was hurting the tips of my fingers towards the end of the day from work. It would be a sharp pinprick feeling on the tips of my typing fingers (so not right pinky and not my thumbs) and I couldn't figure it out for the longest while. Then I found out about mech keyboards and got myself a Filco MX blue and learned to type without bottoming out. My issues all went away from that.

Definitely try learning to type with just enough force to activate the blues and not push all the way down hard. I still bottom out, especially with unfamiliar words/symbols, but definitely not as hard as I used to now that I react to the click and tactile response.

yeah man. Just going through this tutorial. http://www.typingstudy.com/

[rowdy]

Just received my wrist rest and awesome o-rings and this helped a lot.

Thanks for the comments lads

Now after 10 years or so with computers, I just need to learn to touch type lol

Touch-typing's overrated.  I can do it, but rarely do.  I have worked out my own pseudo-touch-typing with 6 fingers that works for me.

[Txduck]

Just received my wrist rest and awesome o-rings and this helped a lot.

Thanks for the comments lads

Now after 10 years or so with computers, I just need to learn to touch type lol

If they're the softer O-rings they will help cushion your key strike as well as dampen the sound of bottoming out.
I use the red ones from WASD and they work great for both purposes.

[Linkbane]

Touch-typing's overrated.

Typing fast is underrated!

[Polymer]

Definitely try learning to type with just enough force to activate the blues and not push all the way down hard. I still bottom out, especially with unfamiliar words/symbols, but definitely not as hard as I used to now that I react to the click and tactile response.

You're not reacting to it..technically that is impossible.  You might've learned how far you need to press to keep from bottoming out but you're not reacting to it unless you're pressing down slowly...

Nothing wrong with learning not to bottom out..but it does impact your speed...of course you can minimize the impact when bottoming out (which won't impact your speed) so you might get some light touches, some presses without bottoming out..but trying to not bottom out (100% or even 95% of the time) is a waste...you take such a speed hit it isn't worth it..

Touch-typing's overrated.  I can do it, but rarely do.  I have worked out my own pseudo-touch-typing with 6 fingers that works for me.

I wouldn't say it is overrated...Typing by not looking at the keyboard is important..I'm not sure how anyone can deal with typing (at least letters) and have to look at the keyboard..it is just far too cumbersome.  If you mean typing with proper form...I'd probably agree...if you have your own method and you're typing at a reasonable speed, nothing wrong w/ that at all...

[tbc]

did people develop their own typing methods AFTER taking a typing course, or in lieu of typing classes?

[tbc]

Definitely try learning to type with just enough force to activate the blues and not push all the way down hard. I still bottom out, especially with unfamiliar words/symbols, but definitely not as hard as I used to now that I react to the click and tactile response.

You're not reacting to it..technically that is impossible.  You might've learned how far you need to press to keep from bottoming out but you're not reacting to it unless you're pressing down slowly...

Nothing wrong with learning not to bottom out..but it does impact your speed...of course you can minimize the impact when bottoming out (which won't impact your speed) so you might get some light touches, some presses without bottoming out..but trying to not bottom out (100% or even 95% of the time) is a waste...you take such a speed hit it isn't worth it..

are you sure you mean TECHNICALLY and not actually PRACTICALLY?

[rowdy]

did people develop their own typing methods AFTER taking a typing course, or in lieu of typing classes?

I developed mine (if you really want to call it a "method") over several years of using various computers, then I did a typing course at school.

[ideus]

How do the angles compare between the two boards? I meant their inclination?

[Polymer]

are you sure you mean TECHNICALLY and not actually PRACTICALLY?

Yes, the amount of time you have to stop pressing based on feeling the bump/sound is too short for you to react to it...so the time it takes for gravity to bring a cap down 2 mm is like .02 seconds....

Just to put this in perspective...in the Olympics it is considered a false start if you're moving within .09 seconds of the gun..but let's just give someone the benefit of being twice as fast as that so .045 seconds.....and say you're pressing half the speed of gravity..that is still .04 (time from 2mm to 4mm in depth) vs. .045seconds which is twice as fast as they allow for an olympic athlete. 

Granted, the numbers are taken off of things like track and field reaction time, etc...but really it is to put it in perspective...You're not reacting to the click or the bump..It might've helped you get used to how hard you need to press...but you're not reacting to it...

[QuadGMoto]

Granted, the numbers are taken off of things like track and field reaction time, etc...but really it is to put it in perspective...You're not reacting to the click or the bump..It might've helped you get used to how hard you need to press...but you're not reacting to it...

What I've noticed in my typing is that if I was expecting to type a letter, but didn't feel that tactile bump on that letter, my mind misses it even though I'm already several letters down the line. That's one way to know I've made a mistake. (It happened on the 'e' in "I've" as I was typing this.)

[berserkfan]

I think you should consider Cherry clears instead of blues. You still get tactility, but the springs are much stronger and you don't bottom hard which should ease the strain on your fingers.

[Linkbane]

I think you should consider Cherry clears instead of blues. You still get tactility, but the springs are much stronger and you don't bottom hard which should ease the strain on your fingers.

Heavier switches are never better for the fingers. Clears, despite having the exponentially increasing force curve, are still significantly higher in force required to actuate than blues. Maybe ergo-clears would work.

[ferociousfingerings]

are you sure you mean TECHNICALLY and not actually PRACTICALLY?

Yes, the amount of time you have to stop pressing based on feeling the bump/sound is too short for you to react to it...so the time it takes for gravity to bring a cap down 2 mm is like .02 seconds....

Just to put this in perspective...in the Olympics it is considered a false start if you're moving within .09 seconds of the gun..but let's just give someone the benefit of being twice as fast as that so .045 seconds.....and say you're pressing half the speed of gravity..that is still .04 (time from 2mm to 4mm in depth) vs. .045seconds which is twice as fast as they allow for an olympic athlete. 

Granted, the numbers are taken off of things like track and field reaction time, etc...but really it is to put it in perspective...You're not reacting to the click or the bump..It might've helped you get used to how hard you need to press...but you're not reacting to it...

not reacting, more like anticipating.

When i was younger and had just begun learning guitar, i used to tap my fingertips on hard surfaces (high repetition, low pressure... not "slam"), when i was between activities but away from my guitar. Having metal wires cutting into your fingertips hurts. Typing doesn't hurt. (unless we start talking about tendons, ligaments, nerves and other connective tissues...)

Also: ALWAYS(!) use the opposite hand for shift. The only place i ever same-hand-shift is 'Z' or '?' (but not this time) (okay actually, i break that rule in gaming sometimes/often, because my right hand is busy w/ the mouse... but that's an entirely different beast) If your right hand needs to do the key press, your left hand needs to do the shift. I won't be a super hardass and demand you always use your pinky, though. Some pinkies are practically vestigial. But really, the pinky is the only one in position without requiring much lateral hand motion (if any). I'm also a right-thumb spacer, so make of it what you will.

Just like with guitar, i'll advise anyone to use their pinky as much as possible, and try not to "anchor." If that doesn't work out for you, i understand. If whatever you're doing starts hurting, take a break.

[zig_ziglar]

Are there any boards that come fitted with ergo-clears or any places that sell switch sets that have had the 45g springs fitted?

[tricheboars]

Are there any boards that come fitted with ergo-clears or any places that sell switch sets that have had the 45g springs fitted?

not really but GON on this site sells shiz like this. plus his keyboards are friggin awesome.

[berserkfan]

I think you should consider Cherry clears instead of blues. You still get tactility, but the springs are much stronger and you don't bottom hard which should ease the strain on your fingers.

Heavier switches are never better for the fingers. Clears, despite having the exponentially increasing force curve, are still significantly higher in force required to actuate than blues. Maybe ergo-clears would work.

depends on what he's suffering from. for some people, bottoming hard is the reason for their pain. We all have different ailments.

[tbc]

are you sure you mean TECHNICALLY and not actually PRACTICALLY?

Yes, the amount of time you have to stop pressing based on feeling the bump/sound is too short for you to react to it...so the time it takes for gravity to bring a cap down 2 mm is like .02 seconds....

Just to put this in perspective...in the Olympics it is considered a false start if you're moving within .09 seconds of the gun..but let's just give someone the benefit of being twice as fast as that so .045 seconds.....and say you're pressing half the speed of gravity..that is still .04 (time from 2mm to 4mm in depth) vs. .045seconds which is twice as fast as they allow for an olympic athlete. 

Granted, the numbers are taken off of things like track and field reaction time, etc...but really it is to put it in perspective...You're not reacting to the click or the bump..It might've helped you get used to how hard you need to press...but you're not reacting to it...

i'm going to say this much.  i DEFINITELY react to the bump.

why do i know this?  because when i push down, i don't push down hard enough to get past the bump.  my fingers actually jam against the bump and then i make a conscious effort to tap as lightly as possible to get past the bump.  learning how hard to press through the bump without bottoming out took nearly a year(bottom out 10% of the time roughly).

basically i type with two short 'pulses'.  once at the very beginning and another time on the bump.  this method more than likely actually caps you out at sub 100 wpm. i frankly don't need anymore speed than that.

every keypress that i make that doesn't bottom out follows this pattern

i dunno, i was a national class athlete back in highschool, maybe the huge amount of 'closedeyed' reflex training i did has ended up helping out with this.

[Polymer]

are you sure you mean TECHNICALLY and not actually PRACTICALLY?

Yes, the amount of time you have to stop pressing based on feeling the bump/sound is too short for you to react to it...so the time it takes for gravity to bring a cap down 2 mm is like .02 seconds....

Just to put this in perspective...in the Olympics it is considered a false start if you're moving within .09 seconds of the gun..but let's just give someone the benefit of being twice as fast as that so .045 seconds.....and say you're pressing half the speed of gravity..that is still .04 (time from 2mm to 4mm in depth) vs. .045seconds which is twice as fast as they allow for an olympic athlete. 

Granted, the numbers are taken off of things like track and field reaction time, etc...but really it is to put it in perspective...You're not reacting to the click or the bump..It might've helped you get used to how hard you need to press...but you're not reacting to it...

i'm going to say this much.  i DEFINITELY react to the bump.

why do i know this?  because when i push down, i don't push down hard enough to get past the bump.  my fingers actually jam against the bump and then i make a conscious effort to tap as lightly as possible to get past the bump.  learning how hard to press through the bump without bottoming out took nearly a year(bottom out 10% of the time roughly).

basically i type with two short 'pulses'.  once at the very beginning and another time on the bump.  this method more than likely actually caps you out at sub 100 wpm. i frankly don't need anymore speed than that.

every keypress that i make that doesn't bottom out follows this pattern

i dunno, i was a national class athlete back in highschool, maybe the huge amount of 'closedeyed' reflex training i did has ended up helping out with this.

It is a physical impossibility but that is fine..you can believe what you'd like...you've trained yourself not to bottom out often so you believe it is reaction...the speed of human reactions say that can't be..*shrug*.

Obviously if you press slow enough to change the numbers then it might make it a physical possibility....since you mention sub 100 you must be somewhat close to that which would mean you're far too fast for that to be the case..

[Linkbane]

Agreed, as Polymer said using reflex to attempt to type is physically impossible unless you type at 40 wpm or something. Tactile switches might offer a confirmation, which works much better. If you see professionals in certain racing events with a timed start light, the best can start within a millisecond of it; definitely not reaction, just expectation, where the mind does things before they happen.