Blackbird vs Deck-Hassium

[Justintoxicated]

Currently I own a Blackbrid and I'm loving it.  Quality seems to be there and the keys feel great.  So great that I purchased a Tt Poseidon with cherry browns for work.  I do not like the Poseidon and would gladly have paid for a little better quality.  They keys feel more mushy on the Poseidon, and the stabalizers are a joke.  I had to remove them so they would stop making that annoying racket when using the long keys.  It's going back even if I have to eat the restock fees.

So both the blackbird and Deck-Hassium use doubleshot keycaps. I'm wondering if the keycap is the difference I was feeling going from the blackbird to the Tt with the same switch.  I do not know which stabilizers the Deck-Hassium uses but I really like the way the cherries feel on the Blackbird (granted people have stated that whatever maxkeybaord did to this thing might not be typical for all cherry stabilizers, very consistent key-presses).  So I won't knock costar's because of one bad implementation of them (Tt's).  I just don't want keys that rattle when I hit them...

If I like the Blackbird will I like the Deck-Hassium?  I do not really like the font on the Deck, but I think I can compromise.  I would buy another blackbird in a hearbeat but I sort of want a 10Key for the office. 

I'm open to other suggestions as well but I'm looking for: Cherry Browns, Backlighting, Doubleshot PBT keycaps, and decent non clanky stabilizers and was only able to find these two (assuming the Deck won't have clanky stabilizers)

I'm also considering getting a ducky shine 3 or maybe a CM TK, but I think they layout might bother me on the TK.  I realize I need to be more careful than I originally expected because not all mechanical are created equal.  I would also consider a DAS Keyboard without backlighting since backlighting isn't required in the office (I just like it).  I'm a software developer so I type ALOT.

Suggestions?

[Grendel]

Deck uses Cherry stabs. If you can live w/ the font Deck used for the legends you'll love the board.

[BucklingSpring]

If you can live w/ the font Deck used for the legends you'll love the board.

+1 for Deck, (cause I know them better and own 4 of them) I got both the Hassium and the Francium and love them equally.
The Hassium was my daily driver at the office for a while. It just got replaced by a Topre RealForce High Profile.

The Blackbird "seams" like a good board too but never handled one myself so I don't know how they compares with the Deck.

Deck > Ducky > CM

[Justintoxicated]

Topre huh, $290 it must be for the elite.  Maybe I just entered a whole new world of keyboards looking at that one.  How does it compare to a mechanical?  Wow I don't think I'm elite enough for one of those but it does have a stealthy leave me alone look if sitting on my desk at work.

Anyways I'm loving the blackbird enough to potentially just get another one, although it does have one issue and a couple minor gripes.  Issue is that there is some semi incompatibility with my z87 board at home (solved with a powered Hub, or by plugging a thumb drive into it surprisingly enough), and minor gripes would be that the LED's for the lock keys get hidden behind the keycaps a bit so I don't always notice they are on. That and no rubber on the flip up feet, which isn't really all that big of a deal since the keyboard still stays put pretty well.  Other than that I think it is about perfect.  I guess it would be nice if the media keys symbols lit-up as well, but I don't think anyone is doing that.

I'm open to other suggestions as well, but I do like the double injection molded PBT keycaps compared to the ****ty ones that the Poseidon had.

So the Deck keycaps do not look as nice as the Blackbirds it looks like the doubleshot part is only at the bottom of the keycap, maybe thats why the lighting looks uneven on the CTRL WIN ALT keys?


The blackbird keycaps the entire inner portion of the keycap is trasparent so the lighting is distributed very evenly. 
 

Should I be concerned with these differences?

[Justintoxicated]

Perhaps I'm better off waiting for the new Blackbird style board with 10key due to be out later this year.  Too bad deck used inferior double shot keycaps with an ugly font, I would have preferred no lighting effects and better keycaps   At least I'd assume the blackbird has the best keycaps available for a backlight keyboard.

Are there any other options I should look into that do not have backlighting?  I guess if I want something under then June/July I will have to give up on back-lighting when shouldn't be an issue at work anyways.

[Justintoxicated]

Wow you guys didn't catch my mistake.  More research has lead me Believe that the Max Blackbird uses ABS doubleshots, while the deck uses PBT doubleshots, thats why they look so different.  So my conclusion that the the PBTs on the Deck being worse are not correct.

I read that ABS doubleshots typically create more clear legends and PBT's are less clear but last longer before developing a shine.  Right now I'm thinking I prefer the ABS doubleshot for a backlight keyboard, but PBT might actually be better in the long run. 

I think I'm sold on trying a Deck now.  Still it's a bummer about that terrible font they choose but they really are the only place selling the PBT doubleshots then, and Max is likely the only place sell ABS doubleshots?.

If backlighting was not important to me, would you guys recommend something nicer than the deck?

[Pacifist]

those max caps don't look doubleshot to me. More like UV'd. But if somebody cuts one in half that would confirm its DS

[Grendel]

If you look close you can see that they are in fact DS.

[Justintoxicated]

Yea I have a Blackbird already and they are in-fact doubelshot, but they are ABS not PBT.  Just looking for something similar for work with a 10-key (tired of bringing in my home keyboard everyday).  I'm programming and entering phone numbers, calculating GPS coordinate conversions etc so the 10 Key does come in handy, although I don't miss it as much as I expected i would.

Ok one more wrench to throw into this whole thing that is really confusing me now!
Seems there are two variants of the Deck-Hassium (Even on their site they only list one version)

http://www.mechkb.com/deck-hassium-pro

http://www.mechkb.com/deck-hassium-mechanical-keyboard

Looks like for the more expensive pro they went back to laser etched ABS Keycaps, it does not have that wacky font but I'd rather have better keycaps I think?  The version I should get is the cheaper (second link) right?

Still open to other options for a non backlight keyboard if there is something significantly better.

edit:" I contacted them and they said that in Australia they only get ABS keycaps on the pro.

What about this guy would this be a good alternative? 
http://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=94
Is the legend a better board?  I think I might be alright with clears instead of browns.  (never tried them though).

[ferociousfingerings]

all i know is: i've wanted those backlit doubleshot pbt caps ever since i saw the chemical test a while back.

Those are some of the best caps i've ever seen, despite the font bashing.

They should totally sell sets of those. They should totally license the tech/design/etc./whatever to other companies, so all backlit caps can be that awesome, from now on. And then they should make them available in every color.

Being all "function>form" as i am (ironic, talking about backlit keycaps...), the functionality (backlit) and durability of those caps, is beyond justification for the font (even though i personally have no problem with the font; it's different and kinda stylish, and you should be looking at the display anyway! Would you prefer Comic Sans?).

Then again, how often do we put corrosive solvents near our keyboards, or type on our precioussss with filthy hands? Or... razor blades. Hmm.

However, i personally like the deck 82, because compact, and compact because a balanced WASD+mouse puts the alphas too far to the left, while centering the alphas puts the mouse too far to the right.

Idk, i like deck. I would be impressed if someone whipped out their deck and was all like "hey, check out this deck!" Or if they just left their deck out, and i saw it... and i'd be like "hmm, nice deck... i'm somewhat jelly."

But seriously, those caps are awesome.

[Justintoxicated]

all i know is: i've wanted those backlit doubleshot pbt caps ever since i saw the chemical test a while back.

Those are some of the best caps i've ever seen, despite the font bashing.

They should totally sell sets of those. They should totally license the tech/design/etc./whatever to other companies, so all backlit caps can be that awesome, from now on. And then they should make them available in every color.

Being all "function>form" as i am (ironic, talking about backlit keycaps...), the functionality (backlit) and durability of those caps, is beyond justification for the font (even though i personally have no problem with the font; it's different and kinda stylish, and you should be looking at the display anyway! Would you prefer Comic Sans?).

Then again, how often do we put corrosive solvents near our keyboards, or type on our precioussss with filthy hands? Or... razor blades. Hmm.

However, i personally like the deck 82, because compact, and compact because a balanced WASD+mouse puts the alphas too far to the left, while centering the alphas puts the mouse too far to the right.

Idk, i like deck. I would be impressed if someone whipped out their deck and was all like "hey, check out this deck!" Or if they just left their deck out, and i saw it... and i'd be like "hmm, nice deck... i'm somewhat jelly."

But seriously, those caps are awesome.

I also like the TKL for the same reason, but at work the tk does come in handy when using the software calculator. 

Would I be making a mistake if I purchased this keyboard instead?  (requires an account or a bookface account to view)
https://www.massdrop.com/buy/ducky-shine-3-gold-edition

[Shayde]

I have the Deck Francium Pro, and the PBT double-shot keycaps don't really let a lot of light through.  During the day the back-lighting is barely noticeable on full, which is a problem given they've used the back-lighting to indicate the state of Caps-Lock.

I ended up putting Ducky back-lit caps on it, and much prefer it that way as I wasn't taken with the feel of the PBT caps anyway.

[bazh]

those max caps don't look doubleshot to me. More like UV'd. But if somebody cuts one in half that would confirm its DS

It is double-shot. They tell blackbird use "injection mold" to describe the keycaps on their product site. Plus you can see quite clearly 2 layers in the keycaps, it's just a bit different compared to normal double-shot caps we see from SP, TaiHao,...

[Justintoxicated]

I have the Deck Francium Pro, and the PBT double-shot keycaps don't really let a lot of light through.  During the day the back-lighting is barely noticeable on full, which is a problem given they've used the back-lighting to indicate the state of Caps-Lock.

I ended up putting Ducky back-lit caps on it, and much prefer it that way as I wasn't taken with the feel of the PBT caps anyway.

Well that is really disappointing to hear.  I'm buying the thing for the keycaps but that's the second time I have heard this, another user said they like the blackbird better

[Grendel]

Deck's w/ ABS caps are only sold in the Asia region AFAIK. In the US they all have PBT caps. I have not had a problem w/ not being able to make out lights, IMHO if you can't see them it's so bright at your workstation that you'll have a hard time seeing anything on your monitor anyways..

The Legend is a good board too, be aware that the one you posted (Frost) has MX clear switches (heavier than brown, more pronounced tactile feedback), not everyone's cup of tea. The caps on the Legend boards are mono-height dyesubed PBT w/ an ABS skirt. I like them but some may leak light at the seams:

[BucklingSpring]

 

Wow you guys didn't catch my mistake.  More research has lead me Believe that the Max Blackbird uses ABS doubleshots, while the deck uses PBT doubleshots, thats why they look so different.  So my conclusion that the the PBTs on the Deck being worse are not correct.

I was about to prosecute you for defamation. But you corrected yourself before...  ) You're forgiven.

[Shayde]

Deck's w/ ABS caps are only sold in the Asia region AFAIK. In the US they all have PBT caps. I have not had a problem w/ not being able to make out lights, IMHO if you can't see them it's so bright at your workstation that you'll have a hard time seeing anything on your monitor anyways..

I didn't say I couldn't make them out, I said they don't let a lot of light through.  There's no way that you can look at these boards with lighting on with the original PBT caps and compare them with back-lit ABS caps and not notice a big difference in brightness.

[Justintoxicated]

Deck's w/ ABS caps are only sold in the Asia region AFAIK. In the US they all have PBT caps. I have not had a problem w/ not being able to make out lights, IMHO if you can't see them it's so bright at your workstation that you'll have a hard time seeing anything on your monitor anyways..

I didn't say I couldn't make them out, I said they don't let a lot of light through.  There's no way that you can look at these boards with lighting on with the original PBT caps and compare them with back-lit ABS caps and not notice a big difference in brightness.

Did you have the blue or white LEDs?  I'd guess blue?

Now I can't decide on the Tk or TKL, originally I wanted the TK but I have a weird tray type thing at work, it's not a pull out tray, but rather a part of the desk I can raise or lower, but it's curved in shape and I did notice how much more comfortable the TKL is when I brought my blackbird to work.  However today I had to write like 40 scripts and I had to do a bunch of GPS conversions for each of them and I found I can use the windows calc MUCH faster with the TK.  Other than the occasional day like this I don't miss the TK at all and feel the TKL is more comfortable.

I guess I could always pull out the ****ty rubber dome board that came with my work PC if I have to do alot of calculations?  or should I stick with my original instinct and get a TK board for work and keep the TKL for at home?

[Shayde]

Did you have the blue or white LEDs?  I'd guess blue?

I have the white LEDs.  You can see my review of this board here: http://imgur.com/a/tW2xq

I think TK boards are a good compromise if you need a numpad.  They're not much bigger than TKL, but do take some getting used to.

[Justintoxicated]

Good review, it has me thinking I should just grab a ducky shine 3 or another blackbird after reading that though.  I don't really care about lighting effects, but adjustable brightness is nice.

[Shayde]

Good review, it has me thinking I should just grab a ducky shine 3 or another blackbird after reading that though.  I don't really care about lighting effects, but adjustable brightness is nice.

I should point out that despite my criticisms of the board in my review, it's the one I choose to use as my main board.  I do like it a lot.

[Justintoxicated]

Good review, it has me thinking I should just grab a ducky shine 3 or another blackbird after reading that though.  I don't really care about lighting effects, but adjustable brightness is nice.

I should point out that despite my criticisms of the board in my review, it's the one I choose to use as my main board.  I do like it a lot.

After replacing the keycaps, and other than lighting effects, in what way is it better than the ducky?

[Justintoxicated]

Good review, it has me thinking I should just grab a ducky shine 3 or another blackbird after reading that though.  I don't really care about lighting effects, but adjustable brightness is nice.

I should point out that despite my criticisms of the board in my review, it's the one I choose to use as my main board.  I do like it a lot.

After replacing the keycaps, and other than lighting effects, in what way is it better than the ducky?  I think the F11 and F12 thing would drive me nuts.  I use the F keys alot when using software IDE's or debugging javascript in firebug.

I'm torn between TK and TKL now too.  I like TKL better but I keep thinking I will need that number pad at work.  Of course I could always wait for the TK version of the blackbird to come out as well.

[Shayde]

After replacing the keycaps, and other than lighting effects, in what way is it better than the ducky?  I think the F11 and F12 thing would drive me nuts.  I use the F keys alot when using software IDE's or debugging javascript in firebug.

Because I don't own a TKL Ducky. 

The programmable lighting is a big thing for me, because it gives me creative freedom on how my board presents itself.  Having the lighting effects selectable by using FN + 0-9 is also nice - I don't get why Ducky insist on using one button to cycle between all the lighting effects.  If I want a particular effect I can activate it immediately on the Deck instead of hunting for it and trying to remember its position in the list on the Ducky.  Mind you, this is with the custom lighting effects.  With the built-in effects you have to cycle through them as with the Ducky.   

The case is a metallic colour which makes a nice change from the jet blacks of most modern boards.

However, if programmable lighting, and the macro system on the Deck aren't selling points for you, then Ducky TKL all the way.     I have two of their full-sized boards and they're nice.

I agree the F11/F12 thing on the Francium was a bad move on their part (the Hassium escaped that insanity).  PrtSc/ScrLk/Pause are orders of magnitude less used on my boards than the F11/F12 key, so I don't know why they chose to do it that way.  Having to press FN + F11 to single-step in Visual Studio is a pain.  It goes hand-in-hand with their bizarre decision to have a nice lighting system and yet not allow the Caps-Lock, F10 - F12 and ScrLk LEDs to be programmed, leaving black holes in the lighting effects.  I wonder if Deck do any market testing of their consumer products?

[Justintoxicated]

After replacing the keycaps, and other than lighting effects, in what way is it better than the ducky?  I think the F11 and F12 thing would drive me nuts.  I use the F keys alot when using software IDE's or debugging javascript in firebug.

Because I don't own a TKL Ducky. 

The programmable lighting is a big thing for me, because it gives me creative freedom on how my board presents itself.  Having the lighting effects selectable by using FN + 0-9 is also nice - I don't get why Ducky insist on using one button to cycle between all the lighting effects.  If I want a particular effect I can activate it immediately on the Deck instead of hunting for it and trying to remember its position in the list on the Ducky.  Mind you, this is with the custom lighting effects.  With the built-in effects you have to cycle through them as with the Ducky.   

The case is a metallic colour which makes a nice change from the jet blacks of most modern boards.

However, if programmable lighting, and the macro system on the Deck aren't selling points for you, then Ducky TKL all the way.     I have two of their full-sized boards and they're nice.

I agree the F11/F12 thing on the Francium was a bad move on their part (the Hassium escaped that insanity).  PrtSc/ScrLk/Pause are orders of magnitude less used on my boards than the F11/F12 key, so I don't know why they chose to do it that way.  Having to press FN + F11 to single-step in Visual Studio is a pain.  It goes hand-in-hand with their bizarre decision to have a nice lighting system and yet not allow the Caps-Lock, F10 - F12 and ScrLk LEDs to be programmed, leaving black holes in the lighting effects.  I wonder if Deck do any market testing of their consumer products?

Wow well I'm certainly going in circles here, but the ducky does not really offer anything over my Blackbird other than more lighting options, but I think I would prefer the nicer keycaps on the blackbird to lighting options I won't really be using.  So I'm right back to where I started....  Would I be crazy to buy 2 of the exact same keyboard?

[Shayde]

Wow well I'm certainly going in circles here, but the ducky does not really offer anything over my Blackbird other than more lighting options, but I think I would prefer the nicer keycaps on the blackbird to lighting options I won't really be using.  So I'm right back to where I started....  Would I be crazy to buy 2 of the exact same keyboard?

Sorry, you asked specifically in what way the Francium was better than the Ducky.  I haven't used a Blackbird so it might be better.  I was only comparing the Deck to the Ducky.

Craziness runs through the GeekHack community, so you're asking in the wrong place.