Author Topic: Model M Plant Codes refer to what locations? (Read 16400 times)

MANISH7 · « **on:** Sat, 11 April 2009, 12:03:26 »

I have Model Ms with plant codes F2, and F4 respectively. What plant locations do these codes refer to? I know IBM had plants in Lexington, KY and Essex Junction, Vt. What are the other locations and corresponding plant codes?

I ask purely out of curiosity.

naikon996 · « **Reply #1 on:** Sat, 11 April 2009, 12:28:00 »

Post 1996 Model M's(M13 model mostly) were made by Maxiswitch in Mexico.
Looking randomly at boards on clicky keyboards, 00 is the plant number assigned to the Maxiswitch boards.
Must have only been one plant compared to the many IBM and Lexmark plants.

I am not sure about the IBM or Lexmark boards however : (

ozar · « **Reply #2 on:** Sat, 11 April 2009, 12:30:47 »

Thanks for asking about this... I've often wonder what each plant code stood for as well.

cchan · « **Reply #3 on:** Sat, 11 April 2009, 21:31:39 »

I had a blue 1391401 with plant number L1-LK. Unless IBM is playing us a big joke, that would be lexington.

MANISH7 · « **Reply #4 on:** Sun, 12 April 2009, 09:14:25 »

Even Clickykeyboards does not have more specific info.

Quote

FACTORY PRODUCTION: We suspect that model M keyboards were made in various factory locations. We know from other information, that early IBM keyboards were made solely by IBM in Lexington, Kentucky. In later years, keyboard production was also done by Lexmark, Unicomp and IBM - United Kingdom. We also learned that another keyboard producer, (Maxi-Switch), also produced IBM model M keyboards (specifically the IBM model M-13 trackpoint keyboard (13H6705 or 13H6710) in black). On the back label of most (but not all of the keyboards) is the following txt: Plt No. Values range from 78 (Mexico), F1, F2, F4, F7, J1, J2, I1, IED (United Kingdom), L1, LI-MH, TC1. We now presume that PLT refers to "plant number"

Their earliest keyboard from 1985 has Plant No. J1. Since they say that the earliest keyboards were made in the Lexington plant, I'm going to guess that J1 refers to the Lexington, KY plant.

ozar · « **Reply #5 on:** Sun, 12 April 2009, 20:28:42 »

I've googled relentlessly and can't find much of anything, either.

Perhaps someone at the IBM offices can fill in the gaps if you want to send them an email.

MANISH7 · « **Reply #6 on:** Sun, 12 April 2009, 21:26:47 »

Tomorrow during lunch I'll call up IBM and do some investigating. Let's see whom they transfer me to that will know random, historical trivia

ozar · « **Reply #7 on:** Sun, 12 April 2009, 21:35:44 »

Yeah, I'm betting you'll get passed around a bit, but I'm also thinking that someone there will want to take it and run with it. They should have this info on their website anyway, since it is part of their history, but I couldn't find it.

Good luck with it!

MANISH7 · « **Reply #8 on:** Tue, 28 April 2009, 19:24:54 »

I did call IBM and surprisingly they referred me to the right people within 2 minutes. E-mail address is archive1@us.ibm.com and the Reference Desk phone
number is 914/766-0612. I did send them an e-mail about a week ago but no reply. I will call later this week.

Quote

Hi,

I have several IBM Model M Part # 1391401 keyboards. The first is manufactured in 1989, Plant No. F4; the second is manufactured in 1991, Plant No. F2; the third is manufactured in 1992, Plant No. F7. Attached is a photo of the tags for two of my keyboards. The photo is a small file yet high resolution so you’ll be able to zoom in and easily read details from the tags. My question to you is what plant location do these "Plant No." codes refer to? Precisely where in the US was my keyboard manufactured? I looked at your website FAQ and got a list of plants but I want to know which of these plants manufactured Model M keyboards and what their corresponding "Plant No" codes were? Thank you very much for your help!

IBM Plants located at your website:

Austin (Texas) plant 1966
Boca Raton (Fla.) plant 1967
Boulder (Colo.) plant 1965
Brooklyn (N.Y.) plant* 1968
Burlington (Vt.) plant 1957
Dayton (N.J.) laboratory 1967
Dayton (N.J.) plant 1958
Charlotte (N.C.) plant 1978
East Fishkill (N.Y.) plant 1963
Endicott (N.Y.) laboratory
North Street 1933 (dedicated in December 1934)
Glendale Lab 1954
Endicott (N.Y.) plant**** 1906
Gaithersburg (Md.) 1966
Houston (Texas) [FSD NASA support] 1962
Kingston (N.Y.) plant 1956
Lexington (Ky.) plant 1956
Manassas (Va.) plant 1968
Menlo Park (Calif.) plant 1966
Owego (N.Y.) plant 1957 (dedicated in 1958)
Poughkeepsie (N.Y.) plant 1941
Raleigh (N.C.) plant 1965
Rochester (Minn.) plant*** 1956
San Jose (Calif.) card plant 1943
Santa Teresa (Calif.) laboratory 1977
Tucson (Ariz.) plant** 1980
Yorktown (N.Y.) laboratory 1960 (dedicated in April 1961)

- Manish

ozar · « **Reply #9 on:** Tue, 28 April 2009, 19:27:20 »

Maybe someone there is researching it to get the info together so that they can respond to you.

Hope so, anyway.

Thanks for the update.

MANISH7 · « **Reply #10 on:** Fri, 08 May 2009, 16:05:07 »

Quote

I have received your request pertaining to plant numbers. Due to department downsizing it will take a while for me to locate the information you are requesting. I will get back to you as soon as possible.

- IBM Archives Reference Desk

ozar · « **Reply #11 on:** Fri, 08 May 2009, 17:56:33 »

Does anyone here know if the current Unicomp building was one of the old IBM plants back in the day? I've always thought it might be, but don't really know.

MANISH7 · « **Reply #12 on:** Fri, 08 May 2009, 18:02:54 »

Quote from: ozar;89951

Does anyone here know if the current Unicomp building was one of the old IBM plants back in the day? I've always thought it might be, but don't really know.

I'm skeptical. The IBM factory in Lexington was the single factory for keyboards in the early days of the Model M. That's a pretty big operation and Unicomp would not need such a large factory.

I didn't e-mail Unicomp because they are a busy, operating business and my whimsical question doesn't pertain to that and will just take up their time. I'm sure IBM will get back to me, even if it takes time. I'm impressed that they did respond after a few weeks and not let my e-mail get buried as it easily could have.

ozar · « **Reply #13 on:** Fri, 08 May 2009, 18:17:05 »

Quote from: MANISH7;89952

I didn't e-mail Unicomp because they are a busy, operating business and my whimsical question doesn't pertain to that and will just take up their time. I'm sure IBM will get back to me, even if it takes time. I'm impressed that they did respond after a few weeks and not let my e-mail get buried as it easily could have.

Thanks for the info. I took a look at what I think is the Unicomp building through Google Maps one day and it's a pretty big building, but I'm not sure where IBM was located during their time there, so can't say if they are the same.

MANISH7 · « **Reply #14 on:** Mon, 18 May 2009, 09:52:25 »

Quote

I have searched through our collections and I have been unable to determine which plant manufactured the IBM Model M keyboard.

Best regards

At least she tried

Maybe we should forward this question to clickykeyboards.

MANISH7 · « **Reply #15 on:** Wed, 20 May 2009, 14:23:08 »

Here's a message I sent to the knowledgeable folks at clickykeyboards.

Quote

Dear Clickykeyboards,

I have one 1391401 1989 with PLT F4 and another 1391401 1991 PLT F2. What locations in the US do these F codes refer to? I forwarded the same question to IBM archives and they are downsizing so they weren't able to answer my question. For more details, I'd encourage you to browse this short thread.

http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?t=5713

Of course, if IBM doesn't know then it'll be tough for you guys too. However, when you do get that info some day - please post it on your website. From your info, I can deduce that J1 refers to Lexington plant. the others like my F2 and F4 - I don't know.

- Manish

MANISH7 · « **Reply #16 on:** Wed, 20 May 2009, 14:26:42 »

Quote from: ripster;91441

Boy, doesn't sound like she tried THAT hard. I think the "department downsizing" is more on her mind. (I hope we're not assuming she's a she because it's a librarian - whoops, "archivist".)

ROFL we're assuming she's a she because of her name. I omitted her name & contact just because this is an open, public forum. Not a big deal I know.

MANISH7 · « **Reply #17 on:** Wed, 20 May 2009, 17:56:34 »

Thanks to Brandon we've got some insight here.

Quote

Thanks for contacting us.

We have been keeping a database of various model M keyboards (primarily 1391401, also 1390120 and 1390131) keyboards for the past several years.
Since we now have almost a thousand datapoints, we are thinking on how best to analyze the data to see if there are any patterns in the distribution over time or patterns that are specific to Plt number.

We have also collected data on the Lexmark model M keyboards (52G9658, 52G9700, 42H1292, 82G2383).. but we want to focus on the 1391401 and not add confusion to the dataset.

It has always been very interesting that IBM took the time to give each and every keyboard a uniqie serial number and printed the assembly date on each and every model M keyboard.

Our database of 1391401 keyboards is public and available here

http://www.clickykeyboards.com/index.cfm/fa/pages.main/pageID/3

http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=p648qGSv2K7D-LBY4i7eNYg

We definitely know that these were produced in the US (most likely Lexington, Kentucky) (see registration card address)
http://www.clickykeyboards.com/index.cfm/fa/items.main/parentcat/9231/subcatid/0/id/313634

and Greenock, Scotland, UK.
http://www.clickykeyboards.com/index.cfm/fa/items.main/parentcat/9246/subcatid/0/id/391347

We are also confident that they were also produced in Mexico
http://www.clickykeyboards.com/index.cfm/fa/items.main/parentcat/9229/subcatid/0/id/390460

Additionally, some model M-13 keyboards were produced neither by IBM or Lexmark, but by Maxi Switch in Mexico
http://www.clickykeyboards.com/index.cfm/fa/items.main/parentcat/9244/subcatid/0/id/381272

Everyone always assumes that Plt translates into "Plant" number.. however, it could also be that that Plt might refer to something else. (for example, in the spreadsheet, there were a bunch of 1991 model M keyboards with the Plt number reading as "L1-JC, L1-JO, L2-AW, L1-NT, L2-A0, L2-MP, L2-TC, L1-NT)

Possibilities include
1. Plt might refer specific keyboard sub-assembly or production materials list that was used
2. Plt might refer to something like the individual who supervised the assembly process
3. Plt might be the specific market segment the original IBM ps/2 computer and keyboard was intended for (large enterprise, public sector, small/medium business, higher education)

Good luck with your search.

Best regards,
Brandon Ermita

Idiot_Hacker · « **Reply #18 on:** Thu, 28 May 2009, 21:17:49 »

Ok, I did a quick comparison of the various Model Ms I have. I didn't have much time to examine them in full detail but I believe I have a closer idea what the plt no is. I think it refers to some sort of assembly line or production line that was used to build that particular keyboard. As production increased, more assembly lines or production lines were added. That is why the newer model Ms have more varying plt no.

Idiot_Hacker · « **Reply #19 on:** Thu, 28 May 2009, 21:33:44 »

It appears that IBM was making roughly 2000 keyboards everyday in 1986 comparing the ID No. I have with the ID No. on clickykeyboards. Also the first plt no to manufacturer 301 was "J1"

MANISH7 · « **Reply #20 on:** Thu, 04 June 2009, 19:39:48 »

Thanks for the lead. I will call up Charles Milligan and / or the departments that set guide lines for labeling products. I will also call up other divisions of IBM and direct them to page 29 which contains the info you just quoted. They should be able to get access to the link (or get the updated link). I think we'll have this mystery cracked within one week.

MANISH7 · « **Reply #21 on:** Fri, 05 June 2009, 11:34:54 »

I sent this to him an hour ago. I'm thinking it would be polite to give him a week to respond to the e-mail and then afterwards I'll give him a phone call. I called up IBM to get updated contacts and the e-mail in the manual from 2001 is still valid but the phone number has changed (which I have for future use if needed).

Quote

Hi Mr. Milligan,

I was reading your IBM Global Labeling Guide Volume 5 - Part Labels from 2001. For your convenient reference, the link to this guide on the IBM website is here.

On page 29 of the guide, you provide a link that is accessible only to IBM employees and so I cannot access it. Here’s the excerpt:

“
J1 Identifies the plant (location) of control of the S/N header and the part ‘type’ (new, used,
internal-use-only, etc.). The letter indicates the location, and the number indicates the type.
Letter-number and number-letter pairs indicate different labs. For example:
J1 - Location (Plant) of Control: Raleigh, type: New
L1 - Location of Control: Rochester, type: New
A1 - Location of Control: Austin, type: New
7J - Location of Control: Greenock, type: Used
Other 2-digit numeric or 2-character alphabetic codes are assigned to OEM subcontractors.
See http://w3.wwd.ibm.com/ai/ai_loc_codes_11SZ.html for the complete list of codes.
”
I would like to know the complete list of codes and precisely what each code means. I’m asking this because I have three IBM Model M keyboards. Two have plant no. F2 while the third one has plant no. F4 (not pictured and manufactured in 1989). Attached is a clear photo of the entire labels for two of my keyboards.

These IBM Model Ms were manufactured in the mid 80s, early 90s – long before even the 2001 manual. So it is possible that definition of the plt. no codes changed over time. As an example, J1 in 1985 may refer to Lexington KY whereas J1 in 2001, when you wrote the manual, may refer to Raleigh instead. IIRC IBM had moved out of Lexington and sold its factory well before 2001. It would have been better if IBM created new plt. codes to reflect changes instead of re-using plt. no codes. Initially, I understood that the early IBM Model Ms were manufactured in Lexington, KY. Since a 1985 Model M had plant had plt. no. J1, I assumed that J1 referred to Lexington. The info from your 2001 manual suggests otherwise but perhaps my initial understanding was incorrect.

I want to know what the plt. no. codes on my keyboards refer to. What factory location & condition? Do they refer to specific IBM factories, sub-contractors, assembly lines, supervisors, etc? One month ago I contacted IBM archives as they are happy to share IBM trivia & history. They tried to find out the meaning of these codes but due to department downsizing they were unable to help me. I’m hoping you can provide some light to this conundrum. Thanks so much for your time and help.

MANISH7 · « **Reply #22 on:** Fri, 05 June 2009, 17:32:37 »

I corresponded with Charles in great length. Very nice guy and put a lot of effort to answer my question.

1. Most of the keyboards sold in the USA were manufactured in Lexington. Charles has been an employee at IBM for 30 years, has used these keyboards, and personally is not aware of other plants that also manufactured these keyboards (save for a few plants such as Greenock or perhaps Charlotte). He confirms what Chuck from Unicomp was saying.

2. What does Plt No mean? We don't know. They do not correspond at all to what we saw in the 2001 manual. J1 in the 2001 manual means Raleigh but J1 on a vintage keyboard - we don't know what that means. Plt No in the 2001 manual obviously means location & condition but we don't know (nor think) that the Plt No for a vintage keyboard means the same thing. This is a mystery and will remain that way. All the possibilities and considerations are so numerous and complicated that we shouldn't even bother. I originally started this query thinking it would be easy trivia but that's clearly not the case.

3. For 1391401s, if you have the original box with its own label intact, you may see a long number below the barcode. You'll see 11 in the middle and then 7 digits after that. The 11 in the middle probably refers to Lexington, KY (an educated guess from Charles). He punched in my barcode and was able to identify that the keyboard was for an upgrade kiosk. It did not give other info.

4. We don't know what the ID number of a keyboard means.

I officially give up and am satisfied with whatever I did learn.

ricercar · « **Reply #23 on:** Sun, 07 June 2009, 12:34:03 »

So we don't have conclusive knowledge what "Plt No F8" means? Bummer. I was hoping this forum knew EVERYTHING about keyboards. ;-)

Idiot_Hacker · « **Reply #24 on:** Mon, 08 June 2009, 11:10:11 »

I have this version but I paid good money for it unfortunately... =(

Idiot_Hacker · « **Reply #25 on:** Mon, 08 June 2009, 12:55:28 »

Quote from: ripster;94712

But is yours from 1985?? That is what makes it unusual.

This is not a dig at you but I think it is interesting that Wikipedia and most other reviews of the Model M have the beginning ship date of 1984 wrong.

This is what ClickeyKeyboards says and I trust him more than Wikipedia any day.

I am not sure when they first started shipping but in all my time fixing computers with a consulting firm that had a contract with the local government a long time ago, I have never seen one older than Feb86
My model M grey with black square logo is from Aug87.

I have close to 20 Model Ms now btw.

ricercar · « **Reply #26 on:** Mon, 08 June 2009, 13:19:58 »

ripster, you have a picture for everything, don't you?

itlnstln · « **Reply #27 on:** Mon, 08 June 2009, 14:37:38 »

Quote from: ricercar;94731

ripster, you have a picture for everything, don't you?

He does. It keeps him from having to type (ironically)... a picture speaks 1000 words.

itlnstln · « **Reply #28 on:** Mon, 08 June 2009, 15:10:54 »

Anyone on a slower connection needs a faster one.

Now getting that faster one in some areas, well, that's a different story. TX has some areas where they are just getting their first computers (not kidding, go ask West Texas).

News:

Author Topic: Model M Plant Codes refer to what locations? (Read 16400 times)