Gaming keyboards

[YuukiHaruto]

Most gaming boards are all bling and no show.

Classy LED backlit keyboards are the Trigger Z and the CM Storm MECH even though it has a edgy design. Still isn't a "gaming keyboard" in any sense.

The upcoming CM Storm QFR-SI should be interesting if just a bit more than the QFR

Trust me on this, I use both the Trigger Z and CM Storm MECH. You'll be wanting MX Blacks. Also, don't bother with browns. If you don't like noise neither are blues but blues feel fantastic. There are MX Clears but I don't really like them are they are limited in production also.
Oh yeah btw, korean 80g spring = cherry 60g or thereabout.

Isn't that just plain and simple personal preference? I don't really care as to what is the most "effective" switch... I just want one that I can feel comfortable typing on, while still suitable for gaming And AFAIK, I'll just have to try the different ones and see what I like!

It's not personal preference.

[Sagii]

Yo, guys! A quick update.. I've now had the chance to try out browns (still a G710+, but I took off some of the O-rings and tried), and I did actually like it quite a bit.. felt better without the O-rings (at least on the G710+). I also tried blues, at least the closest I could get, which was the green razer switches, which AFAIK are pretty similar, and I honestly LOVED the feel of those. Sadly they are way too noisy, so I guess the perfect switch for me would be clears. However, I haven't seen a single board with a nordic layout that actually offers that, so unless I find one in the very near future, my next board will be a Ducky Shine 2 with browns switches and green LED (only colour available :c).

Oh btw, I just realised, does anyone remember from the top of their head wether teraset sells the shine 3 with clears (is it available in clears, even?)?
I'll check myself as soon as I have the opportunity, but I can't right now ^^'

Okey, they don't :c

EDIT: I'm realising now that it isn't THAT hard to find (it IS possible).. Just that I really haven't got the knowledge, nor the time needed to obtain the knowledge (I had my first exam today, and two coming up in the following three weeks  ), needed before I venture out into the wonderful world of keyboardmarketing outside the "normal" computer shops.

[Oobly]

Yo, guys! A quick update.. I've now had the chance to try out browns (still a G710+, but I took off some of the O-rings and tried), and I did actually like it quite a bit.. felt better without the O-rings (at least on the G710+). I also tried blues, at least the closest I could get, which was the green razer switches, which AFAIK are pretty similar, and I honestly LOVED the feel of those. Sadly they are way too noisy, so I guess the perfect switch for me would be clears. However, I haven't seen a single board with a nordic layout that actually offers that, so unless I find one in the very near future, my next board will be a Ducky Shine 2 with browns switches and green LED (only colour available :c).

Oh btw, I just realised, does anyone remember from the top of their head wether teraset sells the shine 3 with clears (is it available in clears, even?)?
I'll check myself as soon as I have the opportunity, but I can't right now ^^'

Okey, they don't :c

EDIT: I'm realising now that it isn't THAT hard to find (it IS possible).. Just that I really haven't got the knowledge, nor the time needed to obtain the knowledge (I had my first exam today, and two coming up in the following three weeks  ), needed before I venture out into the wonderful world of keyboardmarketing outside the "normal" computer shops.

The other question to ask yourself is "Do I really NEED Nordic layout?"

I know you need to be able to type Norwegian characters, but you can do that with any layout. The ; key is just mapped to ö, etc. The reason I say this is that I live in Finland and own a few different layout boards. I have a Ducky and a Roccat with Nordic layout, a KBT Pure with US ANSI layout and a Microsoft board with UK ISO layout. I can switch between them easily and in fact I find the US and UK layouts best for programming (brackets and ; are in good places). You can install extra layouts in Windows and switch them with Alt-Shift. I have become used to the ANSI small enter key very easily. In fact the Pure is my favourite board at the moment.

The other reason is that there are a lot more US ANSI keycap sets available than Nordic ISO. And I like to have a lot of choice in keycaps.

If you decide you can live with ANSI layout there is the Code keyboard: http://www.wasdkeyboards.com/index.php/products/code-keyboard/code-87-key-mechanical-keyboard.html#ad-image-0

US ANSI layout, but TKL, MX Clears and backlighting. Also has multimedia shortcuts. Shipping and customs could be expensive, though.

If you NEED Nordic ISO, you could send them an email about making one of these for you with Clears and Nordic caps: http://www.wasdkeyboards.com/index.php/products/mechanical-keyboard/wasd-v2-88-key-iso-custom-mechanical-keyboard.html#ad-image-0

Another option is to get any Nordic layout Ducky Shine TKL and a bag of Cherry MX Clear switches and desolder all the LED's and switches and replace them...... But that's a lot of work.

[Sagii]

Yo, guys! A quick update.. I've now had the chance to try out browns (still a G710+, but I took off some of the O-rings and tried), and I did actually like it quite a bit.. felt better without the O-rings (at least on the G710+). I also tried blues, at least the closest I could get, which was the green razer switches, which AFAIK are pretty similar, and I honestly LOVED the feel of those. Sadly they are way too noisy, so I guess the perfect switch for me would be clears. However, I haven't seen a single board with a nordic layout that actually offers that, so unless I find one in the very near future, my next board will be a Ducky Shine 2 with browns switches and green LED (only colour available :c).

Oh btw, I just realised, does anyone remember from the top of their head wether teraset sells the shine 3 with clears (is it available in clears, even?)?
I'll check myself as soon as I have the opportunity, but I can't right now ^^'

Okey, they don't :c

EDIT: I'm realising now that it isn't THAT hard to find (it IS possible).. Just that I really haven't got the knowledge, nor the time needed to obtain the knowledge (I had my first exam today, and two coming up in the following three weeks  ), needed before I venture out into the wonderful world of keyboardmarketing outside the "normal" computer shops.

The other question to ask yourself is "Do I really NEED Nordic layout?"

I know you need to be able to type Norwegian characters, but you can do that with any layout. The ; key is just mapped to ö, etc. The reason I say this is that I live in Finland and own a few different layout boards. I have a Ducky and a Roccat with Nordic layout, a KBT Pure with US ANSI layout and a Microsoft board with UK ISO layout. I can switch between them easily and in fact I find the US and UK layouts best for programming (brackets and ; are in good places). You can install extra layouts in Windows and switch them with Alt-Shift. I have become used to the ANSI small enter key very easily. In fact the Pure is my favourite board at the moment.

The other reason is that there are a lot more US ANSI keycap sets available than Nordic ISO. And I like to have a lot of choice in keycaps.

If you decide you can live with ANSI layout there is the Code keyboard: http://www.wasdkeyboards.com/index.php/products/code-keyboard/code-87-key-mechanical-keyboard.html#ad-image-0

US ANSI layout, but TKL, MX Clears and backlighting. Also has multimedia shortcuts. Shipping and customs could be expensive, though.

If you NEED Nordic ISO, you could send them an email about making one of these for you with Clears and Nordic caps: http://www.wasdkeyboards.com/index.php/products/mechanical-keyboard/wasd-v2-88-key-iso-custom-mechanical-keyboard.html#ad-image-0

Another option is to get any Nordic layout Ducky Shine TKL and a bag of Cherry MX Clear switches and desolder all the LED's and switches and replace them...... But that's a lot of work.

Right now I'd just like to say "@/%#&¤!" you!!!", you just my decision ten times harder!!

but on a more serious note, you've got an extremely good point, and that is something I've been thinking of. I've kinda thought to myself that I need the nordic layout, but I guess I don't, I honestly know where everything is anyways, unless there is some weird symbol I don't knowwhere is..
Anyways, I'd also like to ask this question: if I get a keyboard with let's say a US layout (ANSI or ISO), would it be any problem getting nordic keycaps and just change it? Obviously the enter key would be different, but then I could just not change that one. Or is it more than just the legends that are different between nordic and a US layout? As in not the mechanical layout (if I'm using that term correct), but just simply the legends on each key.

God, I'm horrible at explaining what I'm thinking. Let me know if that was extremely unclear, and I'll try to rephrase myself!

[epzy]

TKL ISO boards = 88 keys, TKL ANSI boards = 87 keys. ISO keyboards has an extra key next to the "z". But you can get whatever ISO board and buy whichever ISO keycaps and they'll fit. I don't like regular ANSI layout for typing Norwegian at all, because the ' will be where the backslash key is (inbetween enter and backspace, but you can just remap it with auto hot key anyway).

[skrotnisse]

Like epzy said, and you also got a teeny weeny left-shift to think of. ANSI left-shift is large.

[Sagii]

TKL ISO boards = 88 keys, TKL ANSI boards = 87 keys. ISO keyboards has an extra key next to the "z". But you can get whatever ISO board and buy whichever ISO keycaps and they'll fit. I don't like regular ANSI layout for typing Norwegian at all, because the ' will be where the backslash key is (inbetween enter and backspace, but you can just remap it with auto hot key anyway).

I did some matching up with my keyboard and an ANSI layout pic. And from what I can tell everything would be the same if I change keycaps on an ANSI layout, just that the æ would be located where the apostrophe is on an ANSI layout, does that sound about right, epzy?

God, I just wrote 3 essays about social and personality psychology for three hours straight a few hours ago, so pardon me if I'm a bit slow right now >_> This is soooo much to wrap my head around atm!  )

[epzy]

TKL ISO boards = 88 keys, TKL ANSI boards = 87 keys. ISO keyboards has an extra key next to the "z". But you can get whatever ISO board and buy whichever ISO keycaps and they'll fit. I don't like regular ANSI layout for typing Norwegian at all, because the ' will be where the backslash key is (inbetween enter and backspace, but you can just remap it with auto hot key anyway).

I did some matching up with my keyboard and an ANSI layout pic. And from what I can tell everything would be the same if I change keycaps on an ANSI layout, just that the æ would be located where the apostrophe is on an ANSI layout, does that sound about right, epzy?

God, I just wrote 3 essays about social and personality psychology for three hours straight a few hours ago, so pardon me if I'm a bit slow right now >_> This is soooo much to wrap my head around atm!  )

Yes, the "Æ" is where the apostrophe usually is on a ISO keyboard, and the apostrophe is moved to the backslash key in the middle of backspace/enter.

[Sagii]

TKL ISO boards = 88 keys, TKL ANSI boards = 87 keys. ISO keyboards has an extra key next to the "z". But you can get whatever ISO board and buy whichever ISO keycaps and they'll fit. I don't like regular ANSI layout for typing Norwegian at all, because the ' will be where the backslash key is (inbetween enter and backspace, but you can just remap it with auto hot key anyway).

I did some matching up with my keyboard and an ANSI layout pic. And from what I can tell everything would be the same if I change keycaps on an ANSI layout, just that the æ would be located where the apostrophe is on an ANSI layout, does that sound about right, epzy?

God, I just wrote 3 essays about social and personality psychology for three hours straight a few hours ago, so pardon me if I'm a bit slow right now >_> This is soooo much to wrap my head around atm!  )

Yes, the "Æ" is where the apostrophe usually is on a ISO keyboard, and the apostrophe is moved to the backslash key in the middle of backspace/enter.

Ooooh, NOW I got it just took me some time to realise how you'd arrange it >_> thanks man

[epzy]

That's why I think HHKB layout is teh **** compared to regular ANSI. No backslash key means I get a more comfortable key for the apostrophe.

[Sagii]

That's why I think HHKB layout is teh **** compared to regular ANSI. No backslash key means I get a more comfortable key for the apostrophe.

But now I've got an ever thougher decision to take care of >_> A CODE 87-Key with clears, a Ducky Shine 2 with MX Brown, or a Ducky Shine 3, still with brown, but about 60USD more than the 2
On every forum and review I've been on everyone says MX clears are superb, so I'm really unsure now :c

[epzy]

That's why I think HHKB layout is teh **** compared to regular ANSI. No backslash key means I get a more comfortable key for the apostrophe.

But now I've got an ever thougher decision to take care of >_> A CODE 87-Key with clears, a Ducky Shine 2 with MX Brown, or a Ducky Shine 3, still with brown, but about 60USD more than the 2

Good luck deciding, young padawan. xD

[Sagii]

That's why I think HHKB layout is teh **** compared to regular ANSI. No backslash key means I get a more comfortable key for the apostrophe.

But now I've got an ever thougher decision to take care of >_> A CODE 87-Key with clears, a Ducky Shine 2 with MX Brown, or a Ducky Shine 3, still with brown, but about 60USD more than the 2

Good luck deciding, young padawan. xD

Yeah, thanks for that one -.- Screw you guys!

Hmm, I'm now tempted to make my own board.. at least mod a cheap one.. I've watched some tutorials etc. now, doesn't seem to hard. And my dad is pretty proficient when it comes soldering and that kind of stuff with diodes and similar stuff, so if I ever come to a hault I could just ask him ^^ The only problem then would be to actually find proper parts without paying tons of money.. So I might just get an already built keyboard, and if I'm still as interested after a couple years I might try making one. Hmmmmmm........

[molt]

I am using an ANSI board and it can be a pain writing Norwegian with it. But only if you use the  '*<> characters. ' and * got a new location, and <> does not exist. For me it generally works well. I don't use <> while writing Norwegian, and I use US layout when I am coding. Easier access to []{} on US than on a Nordic layout.

[Sagii]

I am using an ANSI board and it can be a pain writing Norwegian with it. But only if you use the  '*<> characters. ' and * got a new location, and <> does not exist. For me it generally works well. I don't use <> while writing Norwegian, and I use US layout when I am coding. Easier access to []{} on US than on a Nordic layout.

So basically what you guys are saying; get an ISO layout?

[molt]

I am using an ANSI board and it can be a pain writing Norwegian with it. But only if you use the  '*<> characters. ' and * got a new location, and <> does not exist. For me it generally works well. I don't use <> while writing Norwegian, and I use US layout when I am coding. Easier access to []{} on US than on a Nordic layout.

So basically what you guys are saying; get an ISO layout?

I really like the ANSI layout (working with stuff in english), but some thinks its weird with the small Enter. The printing is US layout as well which might set you off writing norwegian while looking at the keyboard. If you primarily write in norwegian, maybe nordic ISO is better?

Getting ANSI layout and changing some keys for getting ØÆÅ etc in the right spot to get a nordic layout makes you loose one key. The <>. From a gaming perspective, its nice to have as many keys as possible around WASD/ESDF.


Edit:
Reading through my answers I see they are a bit unclear. I have a ANSI board, with US layout. And it works great for coding. Writing norwegian can be troublesome because of missing < key. Me having US layout on an ISO board would have made that easier. I feel the selection of ANSI boards are a lot bigger than ISO. Is this a correct understanding?

[Signature]

I am using an ANSI board and it can be a pain writing Norwegian with it. But only if you use the  '*<> characters. ' and * got a new location, and <> does not exist. For me it generally works well. I don't use <> while writing Norwegian, and I use US layout when I am coding. Easier access to []{} on US than on a Nordic layout.

So basically what you guys are saying; get an ISO layout?

ISO is a pain in the *** when it comes to keycaps and it's easy to change to the US layout when you need to (tab + alt + shift)

[Oobly]

Sorry.....

You're going to hate me for this. You say your dad can solder? Here are a couple of pics of the PCB from my Ducky G2Pro:





You can turn some ISO boards into ANSI and vice versa by moving/adding switches....

[Sagii]

Sorry.....

You're going to hate me for this. You say your dad can solder? Here are a couple of pics of the PCB from my Ducky G2Pro:

(Attachment Link)

(Attachment Link)

You can turn some ISO boards into ANSI and vice versa by moving/adding switches....

God dammit.. one thing's for sure. When my exams are done I'm sooooo gonna sit down and just learn everything I can O___o anyways.. why is ISO such a pain the a*** to find keycaps for? Because of the enter and shift keys?

Sorry for asking so damn many question, it's just that right now it's ten times easier to ask questions here and get sensible answers right away, instead of searching all over the net. As soon as I have time I'll actually do my own research though, and I'll let you guys off

[epzy]

It's not hard at all. Most group buys includes ISO kits and there's lots of options in terms of vintage Cherry keycaps, Ducky Nordic keycaps and other stuff as well... Although, in the end there are more options available for ANSI users than ISO users overall. You can still find top notch quality keycaps for ISO keyboards.

[Signature]

It's not hard at all. Most group buys includes ISO kits and there's lots of options in terms of vintage Cherry keycaps, Ducky Nordic keycaps and other stuff as well... Although, in the end there are more options available for ANSI users than ISO users overall. You can still find top notch quality keycaps for ISO keyboards.

It's true but if you want to find keycaps at the classifieds there is rarely any iso sets to buy

[Oobly]

Sorry for all the info, it's a lot to take in.

Please allow me to make a recommendation and give a little reasoning for it, too.

Buy a decent quality ISO layout (any ISO layout, doesn't have to be Nordic) TKL Ducky with any switch type and any LED colour. Of course if you CAN find one with Clears then get that.

Reasoning: You can change the switches and LED's for the ones you want later. I don't know about other boards, but with a Ducky TKL you can also modify the layout to ANSI later if you really want some particular keycaps that come only in ANSI layout.

Some extra blah blah blah which can be ignored: I bought a Ducky G2Pro, Nordic ISO TKL with a mix of Browns and Clears. Then I tried to find some nice aftermarket keycaps for it and the only decent Nordic ISO caps I could find were Ducky thin PBT. That's it... There are a fair amount of ISO sets and ANSI sets with ISO conversion kits out there, but there are FAR more ANSI sets around.

It's even possible to create a hybrid layout board, with ANSI enter and backslash, but ISO left shift and the extra key. Getting caps to fit will be harder than stock ANSI, but if you can get an extra 1.25x size modifier and 1x 1st or 2nd row keycap you can make it fit. Easier than trying to find a full ISO compatible set.

Just my 2 cents.

[Sagii]

Sorry for all the info, it's a lot to take in.

Please allow me to make a recommendation and give a little reasoning for it, too.

Buy a decent quality ISO layout (any ISO layout, doesn't have to be Nordic) TKL Ducky with any switch type and any LED colour. Of course if you CAN find one with Clears then get that.

Reasoning: You can change the switches and LED's for the ones you want later. I don't know about other boards, but with a Ducky TKL you can also modify the layout to ANSI later if you really want some particular keycaps that come only in ANSI layout.

Some extra blah blah blah which can be ignored: I bought a Ducky G2Pro, Nordic ISO TKL with a mix of Browns and Clears. Then I tried to find some nice aftermarket keycaps for it and the only decent Nordic ISO caps I could find were Ducky thin PBT. That's it... There are a fair amount of ISO sets and ANSI sets with ISO conversion kits out there, but there are FAR more ANSI sets around.

It's even possible to create a hybrid layout board, with ANSI enter and backslash, but ISO left shift and the extra key. Getting caps to fit will be harder than stock ANSI, but if you can get an extra 1.25x size modifier and 1x 1st or 2nd row keycap you can make it fit. Easier than trying to find a full ISO compatible set.

Just my 2 cents.

God, I'm so friggin' happy that you took your time to write that. I went to this thread right now to ask "If I ever want to start building/modding/finding keycaps/switches and so on, where should I start?". You just literally answered my question, BEFORE I even got a chance to ask it

I find it funny.. two days ago I said in a post (mb it was a msg), "I won't really see myself ever switching keycaps or anything like that, so I don't care". Now I'm checking the classifieds, GBs and everything. I'm even considering buying some keycaps while I'm at it, and I'm highly considering building my own board when the summer comes.

Jeez, GH ain't good for ya wallet.

Anyway... So if I just simply want to START somewhere, buying a Ducky Shine 2 TKL Nordic ISO layout won't be a bad starting point? That is obviously up for debate, and I guess everyone's got their own opinions, but in general, would it be a smart move (I'm asking everyone)?


I might add that the keyboard enthusiasts' world seems like a wonderful world. I feel like I've been enlightened.

[Defect]

If your start is with a Ducky you're off to a good start.  Until I am sent a bad Ducky I'll always recommend after my experience with the Shine 2.  Any questions about modding, PM me (and there are so many others who would love to help as well).

Keep in touch, love the switch you buy, and then buy more.

[Sagii]

If your start is with a Ducky you're off to a good start.  Until I am sent a bad Ducky I'll always recommend after my experience with the Shine 2.  Any questions about modding, PM me (and there are so many others who would love to help as well).

Keep in touch, love the switch you buy, and then buy more.

But when it comes to modding that exact board, changing keycaps etc. etc., it's still a good start? I know I've asked that question a couple times now, but I want to be sure the first board is right... jeez, sounds like my first time having intercourse.

... enough of that!

Thanks for the help! I know I've said that like three times already, but I'll say it again ^_^

[Bucake]

they are probably not options for you because of the high cost of shipping, but my top recommendations for gamers would be pure (pro), race (2) and poker (2).
they come in many options (backlit with abs or non-backlit with pbt, pcb-mounted or plate-mounted, choice in cherry mx type..), they are small and in my opinion have everything a gamer would need.
which one i'd ultimately recommend only depends on how often you use the F-row, arrow keys and home/end/pgup/pgdn.

of course, if you really don't care for the extra space it takes, TKL brings many more options to the list.
personally i just absolutely love the flexibility a small keyboard gives you, when it comes to using desk space. depending on what i'm doing, i can easily move my keyboard and mouse around with very little restriction.

[Bucake]

edit: wrong button :/

[skrotnisse]

We nordics are in a sweet position, because the germans who also uses ISO, has made many awesome vintage keyboards with great caps.

[Sagii]

they are probably not options for you because of the high cost of shipping, but my top recommendations for gamers would be pure (pro), race (2) and poker (2).
they come in many options (backlit with abs or non-backlit with pbt, pcb-mounted or plate-mounted, choice in cherry mx type..), they are small and in my opinion have everything a gamer would need.
which one i'd ultimately recommend only depends on how often you use the F-row, arrow keys and home/end/pgup/pgdn.

of course, if you really don't care for the extra space it takes, TKL brings many more options to the list.
personally i just absolutely love the flexibility a small keyboard gives you, when it comes to using desk space. depending on what i'm doing, i can easily move my keyboard and mouse around with very little restriction.

I'll check the shipping of those later today and yeah, reason I wanna buy a TKL is because of how little room it takes up on your desk, compared to a full form factor.. So an even smaller might not be stupid

[Oobly]

In my opinion, the Ducky would be a great start.

they are probably not options for you because of the high cost of shipping, but my top recommendations for gamers would be pure (pro), race (2) and poker (2).
they come in many options (backlit with abs or non-backlit with pbt, pcb-mounted or plate-mounted, choice in cherry mx type..), they are small and in my opinion have everything a gamer would need.
which one i'd ultimately recommend only depends on how often you use the F-row, arrow keys and home/end/pgup/pgdn.

of course, if you really don't care for the extra space it takes, TKL brings many more options to the list.
personally i just absolutely love the flexibility a small keyboard gives you, when it comes to using desk space. depending on what i'm doing, i can easily move my keyboard and mouse around with very little restriction.

I'll check the shipping of those later today and yeah, reason I wanna buy a TKL is because of how little room it takes up on your desk, compared to a full form factor.. So an even smaller might not be stupid

I hesitate to recommend a 60% or 75% board for a number of reasons.

1. If the games you play use the F-keys, a 60% will be awkward / slow to use (you have to press the Fn button to access them)
2. If you want / need dedicated arrow keys or edit cluster (PgUp, PgDn, Home, End, Ins, Del)
3. Getting used to the layouts and deciding which layout is best for YOU. Some layouts have really small shift keys and keys in unfamiliar places which can take a lot of getting used to (KBT Pure Pro, Race, Keycool 84, etc.). This takes some time and effort to research and sometimes you won't really know until you actually try a particular layout.
4. Many of them use unusual layouts and it's hard to find keycap sets to fit. An exception to this is the Poker 2 which has standard ANSI layout.

I have a KBT Pure 60% board and, though I love it and think the Fn layer is definitely the best for me and the type of work I do, I  am still getting used to it and am more comfortable on a TKL. I do a lot of text editing, selecting and moving blocks of text, etc. and holding shift while using arrow and edit keys on a Fn layer and then using copy / cut / paste shortcuts while moving the cursor again with arrows on a Fn layer takes some getting used to. I did sacrifice keycap compatibility a little (the right shift is a non standard size) to get the Fn layer that I like the most, but have found some awesome keycap sets on GH that fit (usually if they offer what is called a Tsangan kit they will have the 1.75x right shift that I need). Also the biggest size jump horizontally is from a full size to TKL.

So....

If you need F keys and arrow keys on the main layer and don't want a weird layout (or extra layers to deal with), go with TKL.
If you need F keys and arrow keys on the main layer, but are okay with a weird layout, have a look at the KBT Race, Keycool 84 and Noppoo Choc Mini. Some gamers really like these.
If you need arrow keys on the main layer, but not F keys, look at the Leopold FC660M (I quite like this layout. ANSI TKL keycap sets fit except for the right shift. These are usually available with Clear switches, too.), Filco Minila, Tex Beetle and KBT Pure Pro.
If you don't need arrows or F keys on the main layer, but want a standard layout, there's the Poker 2.
If you don't need arrows or F keys on the main layer and don't mind an odd layout, there's the original KBT Pure (although these are getting rare)

Then there's the GH60 which can be configured for the 3 main 60% sized layouts (Poker 2, Pure, Pure Pro) and there are also some custom boards with either Poker or Pure layouts.

Some of the 60% boards (and a number of TKLs) are available on Amazon.co.uk and at least in Finland the shipping is cheap and I don't pay customs since it is inside EU. Not sure how it is in Norway, due to not being part of the financial Union, but still at least Schengen state...

The rabbit hole goes deep, but at least you're in good company I am actually also a relative noob in the keyboard world (got my first mechanical last year), but have learnt SO much from the other members here on GH. I have since spent far too much money on keycaps, though.... <sigh>

[Sagii]

In my opinion, the Ducky would be a great start.

they are probably not options for you because of the high cost of shipping, but my top recommendations for gamers would be pure (pro), race (2) and poker (2).
they come in many options (backlit with abs or non-backlit with pbt, pcb-mounted or plate-mounted, choice in cherry mx type..), they are small and in my opinion have everything a gamer would need.
which one i'd ultimately recommend only depends on how often you use the F-row, arrow keys and home/end/pgup/pgdn.

of course, if you really don't care for the extra space it takes, TKL brings many more options to the list.
personally i just absolutely love the flexibility a small keyboard gives you, when it comes to using desk space. depending on what i'm doing, i can easily move my keyboard and mouse around with very little restriction.

I'll check the shipping of those later today and yeah, reason I wanna buy a TKL is because of how little room it takes up on your desk, compared to a full form factor.. So an even smaller might not be stupid

I hesitate to recommend a 60% or 75% board for a number of reasons.

1. If the games you play use the F-keys, a 60% will be awkward / slow to use (you have to press the Fn button to access them)
2. If you want / need dedicated arrow keys or edit cluster (PgUp, PgDn, Home, End, Ins, Del)
3. Getting used to the layouts and deciding which layout is best for YOU. Some layouts have really small shift keys and keys in unfamiliar places which can take a lot of getting used to (KBT Pure Pro, Race, Keycool 84, etc.). This takes some time and effort to research and sometimes you won't really know until you actually try a particular layout.
4. Many of them use unusual layouts and it's hard to find keycap sets to fit. An exception to this is the Poker 2 which has standard ANSI layout.

I have a KBT Pure 60% board and, though I love it and think the Fn layer is definitely the best for me and the type of work I do, I  am still getting used to it and am more comfortable on a TKL. I do a lot of text editing, selecting and moving blocks of text, etc. and holding shift while using arrow and edit keys on a Fn layer and then using copy / cut / paste shortcuts while moving the cursor again with arrows on a Fn layer takes some getting used to. I did sacrifice keycap compatibility a little (the right shift is a non standard size) to get the Fn layer that I like the most, but have found some awesome keycap sets on GH that fit (usually if they offer what is called a Tsangan kit they will have the 1.75x right shift that I need). Also the biggest size jump horizontally is from a full size to TKL.

So....

If you need F keys and arrow keys on the main layer and don't want a weird layout (or extra layers to deal with), go with TKL.
If you need F keys and arrow keys on the main layer, but are okay with a weird layout, have a look at the KBT Race, Keycool 84 and Noppoo Choc Mini. Some gamers really like these.
If you need arrow keys on the main layer, but not F keys, look at the Leopold FC660M (I quite like this layout. ANSI TKL keycap sets fit except for the right shift. These are usually available with Clear switches, too.), Filco Minila, Tex Beetle and KBT Pure Pro.
If you don't need arrows or F keys on the main layer, but want a standard layout, there's the Poker 2.
If you don't need arrows or F keys on the main layer and don't mind an odd layout, there's the original KBT Pure (although these are getting rare)

Then there's the GH60 which can be configured for the 3 main 60% sized layouts (Poker 2, Pure, Pure Pro) and there are also some custom boards with either Poker or Pure layouts.

Some of the 60% boards (and a number of TKLs) are available on Amazon.co.uk and at least in Finland the shipping is cheap and I don't pay customs since it is inside EU. Not sure how it is in Norway, due to not being part of the financial Union, but still at least Schengen state...

The rabbit hole goes deep, but at least you're in good company I am actually also a relative noob in the keyboard world (got my first mechanical last year), but have learnt SO much from the other members here on GH. I have since spent far too much money on keycaps, though.... <sigh>

The rabbit hole goes wayyyyy down it seems like!

Right now, I believe the first I actually need to get a grip of is how the different layouts work, the different sizes of mod keys, what fits and what doesn't, what form factor I really want (right now I think I'll stick with a TKL, just 'cause that isn't such a HUGE leap from just a normal full form factor), what switches I want, LEDs or not, nordic or not...

Man, I just realised how much there is to learn >_> That's just the beginning of it all

EDIT: When I think about it, I really don't need LEDs on my KB after all.. from what I've understood most switches come with room for LEDs to be installed, so if I ever feel like I need the LEDs it wouldn't be a problem to solder on some myself. Having one that actually has backlit keys from the getgo would be a plus for me though.
As of right now I'm really confused as to what I want to buy.. I really don't need F keys on the main layout, but I know for a fact that with my surface type cover I get really annoyed by having to hold down Fn whenever updating a side, using Alt+F4 and those types of commands, and it's a great feeling whenever I go back to a KB with "dedicated" F keys

EDIT2: Sorry for all my edits, but after every post I keep roaming the forums for half an hour/hour every single time, and then I get new ideas.
At this moment I just want to buy EVERYTHING, that's my main problem. I want every single keycap, I want every single layout, every single form factor.........  *sigh*
I should just stop looking at GBs and classifieds, buy the damn Ducky Shine 2, have that for a lil' while, learn some more about keyboards, and THEN start looking at all this other stuff, or else I'm never gonna get done deciding what I want >_>

EDIT3: Okey, so I found something that looks like an extremely good deal for me; http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0000U1DJ2/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A2OIUDI229ZXI

An HHKB Lite2 at the price of 50USD WITH shipping.. am I missing something here? It's on the third page, by JAPAN ART 214 total ratings and 97% are positive. It just sounds too good. I know it says plus 550USD in shipping under it, but I went all the way to where I enter my credit card info, and it still says my total order will cost 50USD with shipping O_o

[Oobly]

....
EDIT3: Okey, so I found something that looks like an extremely good deal for me; http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0000U1DJ2/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A2OIUDI229ZXI

An HHKB Lite2 at the price of 50USD WITH shipping.. am I missing something here? It's on the third page, by JAPAN ART 214 total ratings and 97% are positive. It just sounds too good. I know it says plus 550USD in shipping under it, but I went all the way to where I enter my credit card info, and it still says my total order will cost 50USD with shipping O_o

Yes, you're missing something. That is not a mechanical keyboard. Even though it is a Happy Hacking board, it has rubber domes (quite stiff ones, apparently) with membrane, NOT capacitive rubber dome and spring like the HHKB Pro. It's basically an expensive rubber dome board with an unusual layout.

Also, I'm not sure about the keycap type it uses. The HHKB Pro 2 uses "proper" capacitive dome and spring switches made by Topre (but they're very expensive). Keycap sets for Topre are a lot harder to find than Cherry MX, too. For a first mechanical I wouldn't go with the HHKB Pro unless you KNOW that you will like the layout and how the switches feel. If you get a chance to try keyboards at a local computer store, they may have a Realforce board. Realforce also use Topre switches, so you can see how they feel. I am not a fan of them, but for others they're the best. I also don't like the HHKB Pro layout, but again, it's a personal thing.

Since you're considering that kind of layout, I recommend you rather get a Leopold FC660M if you can find one for a decent price, or the Ducky Shine 2 TKL you mentioned before.

Qtan has them in his online store, $120 + $22 shipping, he has the white and dark grey models with MX Clear switches:

http://www.vendio.com/stores/E-sports-Gaming-equipments/item/shop-mechanical-keyboard-by-sw/leopold-fc660m-mechanical-keyb/lid=36810036

http://www.vendio.com/stores/E-sports-Gaming-equipments/item/shop-mechanical-keyboard-by-sw/leopold-fc660m-mechanical-keyb/lid=35722930

If you don't need backlighting, there is the Ducky Zero range, too.

EDIT - Just had to add: You're safe going with a backlit Ducky TKL. Boards that aren't backlit often cannot be converted to backlighting, although a few can. You will have the most options with one of those since you can change the layout, switches, keycaps, LED's etc. and the layout will be easy to use immediately. Who knows, maybe you discover you like the Brown switches after all and you don't change anything on the board.

[Sagii]

....
EDIT3: Okey, so I found something that looks like an extremely good deal for me; http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0000U1DJ2/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A2OIUDI229ZXI

An HHKB Lite2 at the price of 50USD WITH shipping.. am I missing something here? It's on the third page, by JAPAN ART 214 total ratings and 97% are positive. It just sounds too good. I know it says plus 550USD in shipping under it, but I went all the way to where I enter my credit card info, and it still says my total order will cost 50USD with shipping O_o

Yes, you're missing something. That is not a mechanical keyboard. Even though it is a Happy Hacking board, it has rubber domes (quite stiff ones, apparently) with membrane, NOT capacitive rubber dome and spring like the HHKB Pro. It's basically an expensive rubber dome board with an unusual layout.

Also, I'm not sure about the keycap type it uses. The HHKB Pro 2 uses "proper" capacitive dome and spring switches made by Topre (but they're very expensive). Keycap sets for Topre are a lot harder to find than Cherry MX, too. For a first mechanical I wouldn't go with the HHKB Pro unless you KNOW that you will like the layout and how the switches feel. If you get a chance to try keyboards at a local computer store, they may have a Realforce board. Realforce also use Topre switches, so you can see how they feel. I am not a fan of them, but for others they're the best. I also don't like the HHKB Pro layout, but again, it's a personal thing.

Since you're considering that kind of layout, I recommend you rather get a Leopold FC660M if you can find one for a decent price, or the Ducky Shine 2 TKL you mentioned before.

Qtan has them in his online store, $120 + $22 shipping, he has the white and dark grey models with MX Clear switches:

http://www.vendio.com/stores/E-sports-Gaming-equipments/item/shop-mechanical-keyboard-by-sw/leopold-fc660m-mechanical-keyb/lid=36810036

http://www.vendio.com/stores/E-sports-Gaming-equipments/item/shop-mechanical-keyboard-by-sw/leopold-fc660m-mechanical-keyb/lid=35722930

If you don't need backlighting, there is the Ducky Zero range, too.

EDIT - Just had to add: You're safe going with a backlit Ducky TKL. Boards that aren't backlit often cannot be converted to backlighting, although a few can. You will have the most options with one of those since you can change the layout, switches, keycaps, LED's etc. and the layout will be easy to use immediately. Who knows, maybe you discover you like the Brown switches after all and you don't change anything on the board.

Thanks man, I really like the look of those Leopolds, but not sure what I want.. I'll have to keep researching for a while now. What happens is that every time I decide what to buy/do I discover something new and the whole process starts all over again )

[molt]

Thanks man, I really like the look of those Leopolds, but not sure what I want.. I'll have to keep researching for a while now. What happens is that every time I decide what to buy/do I discover something new and the whole process starts all over again )

So far we've talked mostly about layout, key switches and form factor. What about DIP switches? My next keyboard has to have DIP switches, because I want to be able to change Control for Capslock on the keyboard, and not via software. With the ducky you'll get that by the way.

[Sagii]

Thanks man, I really like the look of those Leopolds, but not sure what I want.. I'll have to keep researching for a while now. What happens is that every time I decide what to buy/do I discover something new and the whole process starts all over again )

So far we've talked mostly about layout, key switches and form factor. What about DIP switches? My next keyboard has to have DIP switches, because I want to be able to change Control for Capslock on the keyboard, and not via software. With the ducky you'll get that by the way.

Yeah, thats something I havent thought of actually! might be nice, but as is I cant really picture myself using those much x) but then again, I said that when it came to the keycaps, and see where Im now!

[molt]

I have not look back after changing those keys. For me, to reach the bottom left corner (for caps lock) I have to move the hand and the little finger in an unnatural position. Its more comfortable to move the little finger one position left, instead of one left and two rows down.

[Bucake]

At this moment I just want to buy EVERYTHING, that's my main problem. I want every single keycap, I want every single layout, every single form factor.........  *sigh*

"why oh why didn't i take the blue pill?"

that's it, then: geekhack has got you.

 

Thanks man, I really like the look of those Leopolds, but not sure what I want.. I'll have to keep researching for a while now. What happens is that every time I decide what to buy/do I discover something new and the whole process starts all over again )

perfect!
common is when people pay up in excitement of finding out that there's something close to their needs, while there are actually a bunch of options out there which are even closer to what they really want. such a waste!
just take your time 

ontopic: don't be 'fooled' by the funny layout of compact boards. getting used to them should not be considered an issue. just have 'effectiveness' in mind when you look at them. if you think you'd actually miss certain keys too much, then i'd say it could be a bad choice.

on my pure pro, for example, the only thing i sometimes miss is having a dedicated Home key (since it's really annoying to press rshift + fn + home, with just my right hand).
but do i miss it too much..? nah. it's just a (small) price i pay for having an awesomely small keyboard.

but a TKL does really have it all (normal layout, normal key sizes), so if you wouldn't really benefit from the smaller size of a compact then it might just not be worth it.

[Sagii]

At this moment I just want to buy EVERYTHING, that's my main problem. I want every single keycap, I want every single layout, every single form factor.........  *sigh*

"why oh why didn't i take the blue pill?"

that's it, then: geekhack has got you.

 

Thanks man, I really like the look of those Leopolds, but not sure what I want.. I'll have to keep researching for a while now. What happens is that every time I decide what to buy/do I discover something new and the whole process starts all over again )

perfect!
common is when people pay up in excitement of finding out that there's something close to their needs, while there are actually a bunch of options out there which are even closer to what they really want. such a waste!
just take your time 

ontopic: don't be 'fooled' by the funny layout of compact boards. getting used to them should not be considered an issue. just have 'effectiveness' in mind when you look at them. if you think you'd actually miss certain keys too much, then i'd say it could be a bad choice.

on my pure pro, for example, the only thing i sometimes miss is having a dedicated Home key (since it's really annoying to press rshift + fn + home, with just my right hand).
but do i miss it too much..? nah. it's just a (small) price i pay for having an awesomely small keyboard.

but a TKL does really have it all (normal layout, normal key sizes), so if you wouldn't really benefit from the smaller size of a compact then it might just not be worth it.

Yeah, well, I just looked at a Ducky Mini, and damn that thing's sweet! I know everything's personal opinion, but I really appreciate the fact that you take your time to share your opinions, helps a lot whenever I have to make a decision myself! ^^

[Oobly]

The Ducky Mini is actually made by Vortex and branded for Ducky. It is one of these:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/KBT-Poker-Mechanical-Keyboard-backlight/dp/B00GERIXBG/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1398929794&sr=8-7&keywords=poker+2

with Nordic Ducky caps on, basically. They only made a few so far. My advice woud be to take some time to research at your leasure and get a better idea of what you really want. At some point it will kind of click and there'll be maybe one or two boards that really call to you.

[Sagii]

The Ducky Mini is actually made by Vortex and branded for Ducky. It is one of these:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/KBT-Poker-Mechanical-Keyboard-backlight/dp/B00GERIXBG/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1398929794&sr=8-7&keywords=poker+2

with Nordic Ducky caps on, basically. They only made a few so far. My advice woud be to take some time to research at your leasure and get a better idea of what you really want. At some point it will kind of click and there'll be maybe one or two boards that really call to you.

Oh, so it is basically a Poker 2 ? Thanks then!
I did actually find a Ducky Mini available, though it'll make a nice and big dent in my wallet... 85$ more expensive than a Ducky Shine 2 TKL to be exact.

[epzy]

The Ducky Mini is actually made by Vortex and branded for Ducky. It is one of these:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/KBT-Poker-Mechanical-Keyboard-backlight/dp/B00GERIXBG/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1398929794&sr=8-7&keywords=poker+2

with Nordic Ducky caps on, basically. They only made a few so far. My advice woud be to take some time to research at your leasure and get a better idea of what you really want. At some point it will kind of click and there'll be maybe one or two boards that really call to you.

Oh, so it is basically a Poker 2 ? Thanks then!
I did actually find a Ducky Mini available, though it'll make a nice and big dent in my wallet... 85$ more expensive than a Ducky Shine 2 TKL to be exact.

It's exactly like a Poker 2, just with different branding. I've had both. And, yeah don't buy it if it's THAT expensive.

[Sagii]

The Ducky Mini is actually made by Vortex and branded for Ducky. It is one of these:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/KBT-Poker-Mechanical-Keyboard-backlight/dp/B00GERIXBG/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1398929794&sr=8-7&keywords=poker+2

with Nordic Ducky caps on, basically. They only made a few so far. My advice woud be to take some time to research at your leasure and get a better idea of what you really want. At some point it will kind of click and there'll be maybe one or two boards that really call to you.

Oh, so it is basically a Poker 2 ? Thanks then!
I did actually find a Ducky Mini available, though it'll make a nice and big dent in my wallet... 85$ more expensive than a Ducky Shine 2 TKL to be exact.

It's exactly like a Poker 2, just with different branding. I've had both. And, yeah don't buy it if it's THAT expensive.

Haha, I wasn't planning on it either, even though it looks real sexy !
I'm still leaning towards the Ducky Shine 2 TKL. I'm realising that the more I look around, the less closer I get to a decision. I should just start somewhere and take it from there ^^ I did like the look of the poker 2 though, and I like the thought of a 60% keyboard that is as versatile as the Poker 2

[epzy]

60% master race!

[Sagii]

60% master race!

EDIT: I'm wondering if anyone knows a way to work around the fact that amazon.co.uk do NOT ship to Norway? (Other than having someone in Britain send it to you, obviously) They got several KBs I reaaaally want.. I'd love a layout like the KBT Pure pro's or Noppoo choco mini, but I can't really find any shipping to Norway (with ISO layout, that is).
Take that with a grain of salt btw, haven't been searching the interwebz for too long yet (I'm browsing Ebay at this very moment!).
What I'd really want is a noppoo choc mini 84 type KB with LED and ISO, but that might be way too much to ask for 

EDIT2: Anyone had any experience with this (Majestouch MINILA): http://www.keyboardco.com/keyboard/swedish-finnish-majestouch-minila-68-key-tactile-action-keyboard.asp

From what I've understood it would be a pain in the a** to find keycaps for it though, and modding in general..

EDIT3: I swear to god, if I have to edit ONE more time... gaaah...
Would ANSI layout be very hard to "program" so that I don't lose any keys? I mean, in an ISO layout u have the extra key at leftside of Z (<>), how hard is it to move that over to the key above the enter on an ANSI layout for example?

I've pretty much fallen in love with the compact form factor of the choc mini :C

[Sagii]

Bump.

Sry for bumping, but my original comment (I some edits now) wasn't really anything worth noting or replying to, so I kinda figured everyone had forgotten this thread by now.

[Premonition]

Hey, looking at the Minila, you might have problems with gaming on that because of the weird layout is all. Usually it's recommended that you start by using a TKL board because they aren't too different and you can tell if you like larger or smaller layouts.
For a recommendation, Ducky makes a Nordic layout and it shows that they have a reseller in Norway itself; maybe you'd like the Shine if you enjoy the cool backlighting modes, a Zero if you're looking for a cheaper version, or a Pro with nice thick PBT caps (and pretty cool color scheme, if I do say so myself).

[Sagii]

Hey, looking at the Minila, you might have problems with gaming on that because of the weird layout is all. Usually it's recommended that you start by using a TKL board because they aren't too different and you can tell if you like larger or smaller layouts.
For a recommendation, Ducky makes a Nordic layout and it shows that they have a reseller in Norway itself; maybe you'd like the Shine if you enjoy the cool backlighting modes, a Zero if you're looking for a cheaper version, or a Pro with nice thick PBT caps (and pretty cool color scheme, if I do say so myself).

Already got that sorted out If I can't find anything else I want I'm buying a Ducky Shine 2 TKL MX Brown Green LED! Thanks for the input though

I'm curious though, which reseller was it that you found?

[Premonition]

Hey, looking at the Minila, you might have problems with gaming on that because of the weird layout is all. Usually it's recommended that you start by using a TKL board because they aren't too different and you can tell if you like larger or smaller layouts.
For a recommendation, Ducky makes a Nordic layout and it shows that they have a reseller in Norway itself; maybe you'd like the Shine if you enjoy the cool backlighting modes, a Zero if you're looking for a cheaper version, or a Pro with nice thick PBT caps (and pretty cool color scheme, if I do say so myself).

Already got that sorted out If I can't find anything else I want I'm buying a Ducky Shine 2 TKL MX Brown Green LED! Thanks for the input though

I'm curious though, which reseller was it that you found?

You're quite welcome. No love for the Shine 3, though? 
And I actually didn't look at the site of the reseller, but on Ducky's site they have this little maps with locating dots on where they are.

[Sagii]

Hey, looking at the Minila, you might have problems with gaming on that because of the weird layout is all. Usually it's recommended that you start by using a TKL board because they aren't too different and you can tell if you like larger or smaller layouts.
For a recommendation, Ducky makes a Nordic layout and it shows that they have a reseller in Norway itself; maybe you'd like the Shine if you enjoy the cool backlighting modes, a Zero if you're looking for a cheaper version, or a Pro with nice thick PBT caps (and pretty cool color scheme, if I do say so myself).

Already got that sorted out If I can't find anything else I want I'm buying a Ducky Shine 2 TKL MX Brown Green LED! Thanks for the input though

I'm curious though, which reseller was it that you found?

You're quite welcome. No love for the Shine 3, though? 
And I actually didn't look at the site of the reseller, but on Ducky's site they have this little maps with locating dots on where they are.

Ah, yeah.. There's ONE... that doesn't have them anymore (not TKL at least).
And I got a lot of love for the Shine 3, but it'll cost 85$ more for a shine 3  ^^'

If nobody has anything more to say, I'll buy the Ducky Shine 2 TKL tomorrow!

[Oobly]

Amazon.co.uk DO ship to Norway.... It's right there in their list: http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=11072981

Some goods may be restricted by their type, but I ordered and received a keyboard from them here in Finland.

This one here is "Fulfilled by Amazon", so it should ship there no problem: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Mechanical-Keyboard-Mx-Brown-Keycaps-International/dp/B007OK938Y/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1398971123&sr=8-2&keywords=noppoo+choc+mini

It's a good layout for gaming and the keycaps are really great. They are thick POM with a great profile. AFAIK the board isn't backlit, though. That particular one comes with MX Brown switches.

Hard to find keycap sets for (the edit keys on the right hand side, short right shift and extra 1x key on the bottom row and the space looks like it might not be a standard size), but it is possible. Sets with Tsangan kits will fit everything except the right side edit keys (and possible the space). May actually be nice to keep them and the arrow keys standard anyway to differentiate them

About the programming ANSI layout to have all the keys of ISO... Can't be done, since ISO has 1 more physical key. You can map any key to any other key using software, though (AutoHotKey is one example). What I do with my ANSI boards is switch between installed layouts in Windows with Alt-Shift. So I use standard US ANSI layout for all the symbols and normal characters and switch to Finnish layout when I need ö,ä or å. I program exclusively in US ANSI since the brackets and slashes are in much better positions and never need öäå in my code (except maybe some comments).