Red vs Black sliders?

[minho]

Is there a difference in the feeling of black and red sliders? If I were to place red springs in black switches, or black springs in red switches, would it basically feel the same as the originals?

[Candyflip]

 They are the same afaik.

[Pacifist]

its the same

[Puddsy]

In my experience, the black ones get better as they get older, but in reality there's no difference.

[minho]

But the same does not apply to clear/brown and green/blue right? (With the heavier switch having a stronger tactile feeling?)

[hashbaz]

Green and blue stems are identical, I believe, as are blacks and reds.  Clear stems have a larger bump than browns which produces the greater tactile feel.

[Hyde]

As far as I know Green/Blue is the same, but Brown/Clear are different.


EDIT:  hashbaz beat me by a few seconds lol.

[Defect]

Excuse the low quality photos (took them with roommate's phone since my camera is not at this apartment)

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Comparison of the common stems.

Blue and Green are the same, but Whites have longer legs to aid with a "soft click".  Also reports that whites are lubed a bit more than usual.

Red and black are the same

Clear and tactile Grey are the same

Browns and clears are DIFFERENT.  Browns begin their bump after a little bit, vs clears begin their ramp up at the very top of the press.  Clears are MUCH more tactile browns.  So much so that with brown/blue/red springs, they will stick a little on the upstroke (even with lube, though lube helps tremendously).  Going off topic.  Sorry.  I get excited.


Others I have not had or opened up and cannot speak to.

[Razor Lotus]

I think the biggest difference is the colour

[dorkvader]

brown clear tactile grey

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Clear is hazy as it absorbes the flash.

Blue and Green are the same, but Whites have longer legs to aid with a "soft click".  Also reports that whites are lubed a bit more than usual.

I took a lot of comparison pictures of whites / greens and did not see this. I will upload them if wanted.

[Defect]

brown clear tactile grey

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Clear is hazy as it absorbes the flash.

Blue and Green are the same, but Whites have longer legs to aid with a "soft click".  Also reports that whites are lubed a bit more than usual.

I took a lot of comparison pictures of whites / greens and did not see this. I will upload them if wanted.

Please do!  Check the black leg vs the clear/white leg and let me know, as I hope I am not spreading falsities.  It has been a while.

[Puddsy]

Whites have a shorter "leg" than greens, according to retspiR.

[dorkvader]

brown clear tactile grey

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Show Image

More

Show Image

Clear is hazy as it absorbes the flash.

Blue and Green are the same, but Whites have longer legs to aid with a "soft click".  Also reports that whites are lubed a bit more than usual.

I took a lot of comparison pictures of whites / greens and did not see this. I will upload them if wanted.

Please do!  Check the black leg vs the clear/white leg and let me know, as I hope I am not spreading falsities.  It has been a while.

I couldn't find my images, so I took more.

look the same to me. I'm not sure if the blue I used is representative, as it had a different spring than I was expecting. I think it's one out of my dolch, so maybe it's old or something.

uploading pictures now.

Whites have a shorter "leg" than greens, according to retspiR.

More often than not, he's wrong.

He had photo evidence for this one.

So do I

edit:
see for yourself
https://www.flickr.com/photos/dork_vader/sets/72157644024873138/

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the WB is off (that's 92 bright paper it's on) but they STILL look the same to me. Is it really that hard to accept that the difference in click might be due to a material difference in the slider?

[Puddsy]

He had photo evidence for this one.

[Defect]

My bad guys

Not only did I supply bad information, but I also derailed the thread.  Off too a good start with my sub-60 post count.

I had an MX white, but I can't find it.  You guys have me tempted to go buy some, even though I haven't really enjoyed click switches for a while.  It might be my imagination but I remember the legs being different shape.  Either skinnier or longer or just with a different curve.


Sorry for derail.

[PointyFox]

Red and black are the same.  Vintage black might be different.

[minho]

Clear and tactile Grey are the same

Are there multiple types of grey? And I'm guessing these http://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=719 are tactile greys?

Sorry for derail.

Eh theres only so many ways you can tell me that black and red sliders are the same before it starts getting old . Learning about other sliders and the like is interesting.

[nubbinator]

Are there multiple types of grey? And I'm guessing these http://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=719 are tactile greys?

There are tactile and linear greys.

[HPE1000]

Are there multiple types of grey? And I'm guessing these http://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=719 are tactile greys?

There are tactile and linear greys.

I could be wrong but I think there are clicky greys as well, although not common at all.

[BlueBär]

I could be wrong but I think there are clicky greys as well, although not common at all.

Yes, but they're very rare.

[davkol]

Red and black are the same.  Vintage black might be different.

QFT

Vintage switches use different materials... and not all of them are made equally. I've seen at least two types of springs and the plastic is different too.

[BlueBär]

Vintage switches use different materials... and not all of them are made equally. I've seen at least two types of springs and the plastic is different too.

How can you tell that the plastic is different?

[czarek]

Red and black are the same.  Vintage black might be different.

Vintage black are also the same as modern blacks and reds. Only difference is that vintage switches have different lube which made them smoother. They also used different springs, but they were inconsistent back then and IMO in this regard modern springs are much better.

[minho]

Red and black are the same.  Vintage black might be different.

Vintage black are also the same as modern blacks and reds. Only difference is that vintage switches have different lube which made them smoother. They also used different springs, but they were inconsistent back then and IMO in this regard modern springs are much better.

So basically, they're kind of a scam? (IIRC, they sell for quite a high price, but in actuality, you could just "make" your own with different lube and regular blacks?)

[BlueBär]

Vintage black are also the same as modern blacks and reds. Only difference is that vintage switches have different lube which made them smoother. They also used different springs, but they were inconsistent back then and IMO in this regard modern springs are much better.

I don't know where you got this from but this is completely wrong. There is no lube (or barely any factory lube that's left) on vintage switches, let alone different or special lube. I cleaned my vintage switches before using them (because of dirt inside of the switches) and the smoothness is still there.
The springs are inconsistent because they are old and used - this will happen to modern springs as well with usage.

So basically, they're kind of a scam? (IIRC, they sell for quite a high price, but in actuality, you could just "make" your own with different lube and regular blacks?)

They don't sell for a high price, at least not vintage blacks. They're common and they're also used switches.
You are correct though, you can lube new blacks to get a similar effect.

[davkol]

I had switches from more sources: NIB modern blacks, heavily used modern blacks, vintage blacks from more sources and with different amounts of wear. Unfortunately, due to lack of equipment and time at the time, I only tried to swap different parts and did some blind testing consequently, but I couldn't document the whole thing properly. The feel depended on plastic parts used, not springs, nor lubing (none). It was consistent across batches, i.e. independent on use. Aging by itself could affect feel, but more batches were made around the same time.

Once I have more time, I'd like to bring some switches and keycaps to a lab.

[strict]

I don't know where you got this from but this is completely wrong. There is no lube (or barely any factory lube that's left) on vintage switches, let alone different or special lube. I cleaned my vintage switches before using them (because of dirt inside of the switches) and the smoothness is still there.
The springs are inconsistent because they are old and used - this will happen to modern springs as well with usage.

You are correct though, you can lube new blacks to get a similar effect.

Was going to post exactly this. The vintage blacks I've got have a tiny dab of lubricant on the leaf spring in the exact same amount/location as modern blacks and nothing more. Despite that, the vintage blacks are noticeably smoother. My Filco with red switches was used daily for almost 7 months and even the most worn-in, smoothest red switch still feels scratchier than the worst vintage black.

After doing some casual experimentation, it is my opinion that their unusual smoothness is a combination of the switch being both worn in and a difference in plastic material. Maybe the difference in material composition causes vintage switches to wear-in more/better. For example, If I put a scratchy red stem inside a vintage black housing, it makes it smoother but not as smooth as the vintage black by itself. Like wise, putting a vintage black stem inside a scratchy red housing made it smoother but not anywhere near as smooth as the completely vintage black setup.

[minho]

I don't know where you got this from but this is completely wrong. There is no lube (or barely any factory lube that's left) on vintage switches, let alone different or special lube. I cleaned my vintage switches before using them (because of dirt inside of the switches) and the smoothness is still there.
The springs are inconsistent because they are old and used - this will happen to modern springs as well with usage.

You are correct though, you can lube new blacks to get a similar effect.

Was going to post exactly this. The vintage blacks I've got have a tiny dab of lubricant on the leaf spring in the exact same amount/location as modern blacks and nothing more. Despite that, the vintage blacks are noticeably smoother. My Filco with red switches was used daily for almost 7 months and even the most worn-in, smoothest red switch still feels scratchier than the worst vintage black.

After doing some casual experimentation, it is my opinion that their unusual smoothness is a combination of the switch being both worn in and a difference in plastic material. Maybe the difference in material composition causes vintage switches to wear-in more/better. For example, If I put a scratchy red stem inside a vintage black housing, it makes it smoother but not as smooth as the vintage black by itself. Like wise, putting a vintage black stem inside a scratchy red housing made it smoother but not anywhere near as smooth as the completely vintage black setup.

This is slightly off topic, but is this http://www.lowes.com/pd_363779-39963-DS1004101_0__?productId=3550504 an okay/good lube to use? I'm looking to lube my blacks (love how smooth they feel after typing on browns and blues for a year and half, and interested in how much better they'd feel with lube).

Also, is it okay to cut the costar stabilizers a little bit to make taking the keycaps off and lubing them easier? It's extremely difficult right now on my Keycool 84 as compared with my other board.

[iLLucionist]

I could be wrong but I think there are clicky greys as well, although not common at all.

Yes, but they're very rare.

Weren't clicky Grays the original MX switches or am I mistaken?

[Novus]

So I misread this as red vs black spiders.

[rowdy]

So I misread this as red vs black spiders.

Damn!  You've got me checking the dark corners of the room now ...

[BlueBär]

Weren't clicky Grays the original MX switches or am I mistaken?

I'm pretty sure the first ones were Black and Blue. If clicky Greys we're first there would probably also be more of them.

This is slightly off topic, but is this http://www.lowes.com/pd_363779-39963-DS1004101_0__?productId=3550504 an okay/good lube to use? I'm looking to lube my blacks (love how smooth they feel after typing on browns and blues for a year and half, and interested in how much better they'd feel with lube).

Also, is it okay to cut the costar stabilizers a little bit to make taking the keycaps off and lubing them easier? It's extremely difficult right now on my Keycool 84 as compared with my other board.

Get some thin Krytox lube kit from Techkeys or Mechanicalkeyboards.com, it's a very good lube and includes some tools you will need for lubing.
Not sure what you mean with the stabilizers. You're aware that you will have to desolder your switches if you want to lube them unless you have a custom plate, right?

[minho]

Weren't clicky Grays the original MX switches or am I mistaken?

I'm pretty sure the first ones were Black and Blue. If clicky Greys we're first there would probably also be more of them.

This is slightly off topic, but is this http://www.lowes.com/pd_363779-39963-DS1004101_0__?productId=3550504 an okay/good lube to use? I'm looking to lube my blacks (love how smooth they feel after typing on browns and blues for a year and half, and interested in how much better they'd feel with lube).

Also, is it okay to cut the costar stabilizers a little bit to make taking the keycaps off and lubing them easier? It's extremely difficult right now on my Keycool 84 as compared with my other board.

Get some thin Krytox lube kit from Techkeys or Mechanicalkeyboards.com, it's a very good lube and includes some tools you will need for lubing.
Not sure what you mean with the stabilizers. You're aware that you will have to desolder your switches if you want to lube them unless you have a custom plate, right?

$18.00 for four grams... I plan on lubing my black switches, and hopefully some clear switches that I will be purchasing later (and also just the stabilizers on all of my keyboards). I'm aware that desoldering will be necessary to lube the switches, but I'm mostly concerned about cost vs. amount of lube.

I'd rather shell out $54.00 straight off the bat for this rather than buy it in 4 g intervals at $18.00. Only worry is how techkeys/mechkeyboards prepares them - do they mix it with something called 1506? (Product is listed as "4g Krytox GPL 206/1506 premixed" on both sites). I can't seem to find that other lube.

Once again, if anyone could comment on the quality of this lube, I would appreciate it. If it is a decent lube, I will probably get that instead to save what seems like a lot of money.

[BlueBär]

$18.00 for four grams... I plan on lubing my black switches, and hopefully some clear switches that I will be purchasing later (and also just the stabilizers on all of my keyboards). I'm aware that desoldering will be necessary to lube the switches, but I'm mostly concerned about cost vs. amount of lube.

I'd rather shell out $54.00 straight off the bat for this rather than buy it in 4 g intervals at $18.00. Only worry is how techkeys/mechkeyboards prepares them - do they mix it with something called 1506? (Product is listed as "4g Krytox GPL 206/1506 premixed" on both sites). I can't seem to find that other lube.

Once again, if anyone could comment on the quality of this lube, I would appreciate it. If it is a decent lube, I will probably get that instead to save what seems like a lot of money.

Those 4g are more than enough for a full sized keyboard. The kits also contain a brush and a syringe with needles so you can apply the lube fairly easily.
The kits are not made by them, they are made by mkawa. He knows a lot about lube and if he says you should use it then you totally should. If you would want to know more about Krytox and what makes it so good search the forum for his posts about it

For stabilizers you should use grease instead of lube.

[minho]

$18.00 for four grams... I plan on lubing my black switches, and hopefully some clear switches that I will be purchasing later (and also just the stabilizers on all of my keyboards). I'm aware that desoldering will be necessary to lube the switches, but I'm mostly concerned about cost vs. amount of lube.

I'd rather shell out $54.00 straight off the bat for this rather than buy it in 4 g intervals at $18.00. Only worry is how techkeys/mechkeyboards prepares them - do they mix it with something called 1506? (Product is listed as "4g Krytox GPL 206/1506 premixed" on both sites). I can't seem to find that other lube.

Once again, if anyone could comment on the quality of this lube, I would appreciate it. If it is a decent lube, I will probably get that instead to save what seems like a lot of money.

Those 4g are more than enough for a full sized keyboard. The kits also contain a brush and a syringe with needles so you can apply the lube fairly easily.
The kits are not made by them, they are made by mkawa. He knows a lot about lube and if he says you should use it then you totally should. If you would want to know more about Krytox and what makes it so good search the forum for his posts about it

No wonder they're the same on both sites. Okay thanks, I will most likely be purchasing that lube for my switches when I finally get some soldering and desoldering practice.

For stabilizers you should use grease instead of lube.

Your guide in the signature (which is quite helpful by the way, I used this when I thought I broke my keyboard after pulling the spacebar off a year ago) misled me... it says to use lube on stabilizers
Can you recommend a grease to use?

Thanks for your help though!

[strict]

$18.00 for four grams... I plan on lubing my black switches, and hopefully some clear switches that I will be purchasing later (and also just the stabilizers on all of my keyboards). I'm aware that desoldering will be necessary to lube the switches, but I'm mostly concerned about cost vs. amount of lube.

I'd rather shell out $54.00 straight off the bat for this rather than buy it in 4 g intervals at $18.00. Only worry is how techkeys/mechkeyboards prepares them - do they mix it with something called 1506? (Product is listed as "4g Krytox GPL 206/1506 premixed" on both sites). I can't seem to find that other lube.

Once again, if anyone could comment on the quality of this lube, I would appreciate it. If it is a decent lube, I will probably get that instead to save what seems like a lot of money.

I have some of the Dupont lubricant you posted but I'm really not a fan of it for switch internals. Compared to Krytox it doesn't really feel like it does much, maybe because its too runny. Maybe for lubricant on the springs it would work okay, but not the sliders. It might be a little pricey but I would definitely recommend the premixed Krytox lube kit that mkawa makes, he really knows his stuff.

Your guide in the signature (which is quite helpful by the way, I used this when I thought I broke my keyboard after pulling the spacebar off a year ago) misled me... it says to use lube on stabilizers
Can you recommend a grease to use?

Thanks for your help though!

I just picked up a tube of Finish Line Extreme Flouro for my phantom and it works amazing. It works great to quiet down noisy/squeaky costar stabilizers. I had a generic silicon type lubricant on my Filco but after trying the Finish Line stuff on the phantom's costar stabilizers I liked it so much I cleaned all the old silicon crap off the filco and applied some of this stuff.

[BlueBär]

Your guide in the signature (which is quite helpful by the way, I used this when I thought I broke my keyboard after pulling the spacebar off a year ago) misled me... it says to use lube on stabilizers
Can you recommend a grease to use?

You can use lube as long as it's not too thin, too, but I think grease works a bit better. Can't really give you a recommendation because I used a local product

[minho]

Okay thanks for all of your guys' help! Going to get the Krytox mixture and Finish Line Extreme Fluro for sliders/stabilizers when I need them later (after I learn soldering and disassembly technique correctly )