Looking for constructive criticism/critiques of my layout.

[krfkeith]

I've been trying, over the past few months to design my "perfect" keyboard layout, mostly for emacs, and some custom software I plan on writing. I want/need/require/desire a lot of modifier keys. My main inspiration came from the Sun Type 6 layout, the Space Cadet, the Symbolics keyboards, and Dvorak. I based the design off of the Xah Lee layout. As insane as that guy is, I actually like his design, however, I obviously have no tested this so I don't know how it would feel in terms of comfort. I was wondering what you guys think. I've included a PNG of it in this post.

Let me know!

-Thanks

[Snarfangel]

Well, I like the central number pad. I prefer the u-i switch Dvorak variation, I think, but it depends on what you are used to (I don't use Dvorak, it just seemed a sensible switch). It looks pretty nice, though, I would like it if my TypeMatrix had that form.

[metalliqaz]

Enter and backspace seem impossible to reach without hitting space.

[krfkeith]

Well, I like the central number pad. I prefer the u-i switch Dvorak variation, I think, but it depends on what you are used to (I don't use Dvorak, it just seemed a sensible switch). It looks pretty nice, though, I would like it if my TypeMatrix had that form.

That's a good suggestion! I changed the vowels to be alphabetical, which is basically the order of use, it definitely is more OCD-compliant  .

Enter and backspace seem impossible to reach without hitting space.

That's a good point too! I uploaded a modified version.

[Findecanor]

I would put each cluster of thumb keys in an arc of 1u keys... or maybe just move the Space keys towards the middle like on the µTron. (Except the µTron has the Space key on your Backspace key's position.)

You know you would have to match the keyboard's layout with a matching keymap on the computer as well. Otherwise you are not going to get keys with only symbols on them.

I personally am not so convinced that a pure orthonormal matrix layout is particularly ergonomic because it does not take into account the differences between the fingers.
What you could do to test the layout is first to print it out in full size (a normal key is 3/4" square) and test-type on that. Then, if you have a spare Cherry MY keyboard laying around (from scavenging Cherry MX-compatible keycaps ), you can remove the switches, cut off their nubs and glue them flat onto some kind of surface to make a test layout with real keys to type on. Some guys have glued strong magnets on the bottom of MY switches so that they can be moved around for different layouts, but not too easily - and they make good fridge magnets as well.

[krfkeith]

Findecanor:

I know about mapping the keys, I think I can figure out a way to do that though.

In terms of the grid shape, what I was thinking of doing was having each column be straight, but the rows curved sort of like in the Truly Ergonomic Keyboard. Also, here's revision 3 that I just made. (I added another control key on the right, moved the mode lock key to the bottom, and fixed the fact that there were two period/fullstop keys.)

EDIT:

Also, just to clarify, the key I labeled "F*" is supposed to convert the number keys in the corresponding F key.
The arrow key allows you to use the labeled keys as arrow keys instead of number keys.

[SonOfSonOfSpock]

I think the space key is too far in the middle. I think you'd have a hard time hitting it without moving your hand each time. I'd recommend swapping it with the backspace key.

I think having thumb keys like Maltron/Kinesis Advantage/ErgoDox/Keyboard.io is the best option, but that would require a bigger departure from your design.

[krfkeith]

I think the space key is too far in the middle. I think you'd have a hard time hitting it without moving your hand each time. I'd recommend swapping it with the backspace key.

I think having thumb keys like Maltron/Kinesis Advantage/ErgoDox/Keyboard.io is the best option, but that would require a bigger departure from your design.

That's a really good point, and something I was worried about. Here is v4 of my layout. I realized that not having dedicated arrow keys was probably a bad idea, so added those back in, but made them fit within the column, and shifted around a few of the keys.

[davkol]

I don't think having dedicated arrow cluster between right Shift and alphas is a good idea. I've used such keyboards before and it's always been a PITA. I'd go with as many symmetrical modifiers as possible too.

OTOH, arrows in a row instead of an inverted T cluster work surprisingly well (like on the the default Kinesis or ErgoDox layout), at least for me. Even with a thumb modifier, preferably sticky though.

Another thing is distance between numbers and the home row. The most common numbers are 0 and 1 AFAIK, but 0 is hard to reach and 1 isn't all that much better.

I think it's better to have a numpad layer (or two, one mirrored) with number on one half and navigation cluster on the other one, both around the home row.

[hoggy]

I'm assuming the function keys are on a layer on the numpad? I like the position of the backspace.

It's possible to have dual use modifiers - pressing shift and another key - as normal, but pressing shift and then releasing it can then produce something else.  So you could combine meta and tab on the one key (check out the space-fn thread).

[krfkeith]

I'm assuming the function keys are on a layer on the numpad? I like the position of the backspace.

It's possible to have dual use modifiers - pressing shift and another key - as normal, but pressing shift and then releasing it can then produce something else.  So you could combine meta and tab on the one key (check out the space-fn thread).

Yeah, the idea is that you press the "F*" key plus the corresponding number, and that gives you the F key you want.

I don't think having dedicated arrow cluster between right Shift and alphas is a good idea. I've used such keyboards before and it's always been a PITA. I'd go with as many symmetrical modifiers as possible too.

OTOH, arrows in a row instead of an inverted T cluster work surprisingly well (like on the the default Kinesis or ErgoDox layout), at least for me. Even with a thumb modifier, preferably sticky though.

Another thing is distance between numbers and the home row. The most common numbers are 0 and 1 AFAIK, but 0 is hard to reach and 1 isn't all that much better.

I think it's better to have a numpad layer (or two, one mirrored) with number on one half and navigation cluster on the other one, both around the home row.

Yeah, I'm rather conflicted about the arrow keys, I'm not sure if I would miss having dedicated ones. However, if, as you say, they work alright in a row, that might work out.

On the numbers, I agree, that is a potential downside, but I think the only way to know for sure is to build a prototype.

[ksweber]

I can see some weaknesses on the letter distribution:
* there are lots of same finger movements: OU, PO, OP, GH, CT, OY, YO, RN, SL, LS, OK
* the number of key strokes with adjacent fingers other than  index/middle is increased for right middle/ring finger (NT, TR, RT, NC)

I would suggest you take a keyboard layout from http://patorjk.com/keyboard-layout-analyzer/#/config where some really advanced layouts were published. I would suggest looking at 'HIEAMTSRN'  and 'Aus der Neo Welt', which are well balanced for english language. Depending on which analyser you use AdNW or HIEAMTSRN is better. Both have  1/3 same finger movements compared to your version 4.

[TotalChaos]

PROBLEM: Your layout overworks your pinky finger and gives your thumb not enough to do.

Your pinky finger is your weakest finger.  When your hands go out on you, your pinky is usually first to go.

Your thumb is your strongest finger.

SOLUTION:
Add some thumb keys under the spacebar for SHIFT, CTRL, ALT, OS.
Make sure you have 2 ALT keys and 2 OS keys.
You can have either 1 or 2 thumbshift keys.  If you want a perfect keyboard then have both.
You can have either 1 or 2 CTRL keys. If you want a perfect keyboard then have both.
Each of the above keys generates its own unique keycode and is vitally important for a properly working keyboard.


PROBLEM:
I didn't see a scroll lock key anywhere.  This key is used by millions of KVM switches.

SOLUTION:
Include ALL standard keys.

PROBLEM:
You didn't include a single blank unused key.
When ppl remap your keyboard because you forgot something or made a mistake they need some spare keys laying around to do different things.

SOLUTION:
Don't be stingy.  Include MORE keys not LESS.

If you can include these fixes then I will be forced to buy your keyboard.  Probably 3 of them.

Thank you and have a nice day. 

[davkol]

PROBLEM: Your layout overworks your pinky finger and gives your thumb not enough to do.

Your pinky finger is your weakest finger.  When your hands go out on you, your pinky is usually first to go.

Your thumb is your strongest finger.

The keyboard is flat and you probably don't know OP's thumbs (nor pinkies).

Spacebar, Enter, BS and several modifiers (for accessing layers, I assume) are already thumb buttons. Personally, I'd appreciate some palm modifiers, but not everyone likes that.

Make sure you have 2 ALT keys and 2 OS keys.

It looks like an Emacs keyboard, if you haven't noticed.

PROBLEM:
I didn't see a scroll lock key anywhere.  This key is used by millions of KVM switches.

(...)

If you can include these fixes then I will be forced to buy your keyboard.  Probably 3 of them.

I don't think OP plans to sell such keyboards, uses a KVM switch, nor requires PS/2 for that matter.

If you want to get such keyboard, POS keypads are quite widely available. Many of them are PS/2 compatible as well.

PROBLEM:
You didn't include a single blank unused key.
When ppl remap your keyboard because you forgot something or made a mistake they need some spare keys laying around to do different things.

SOLUTION:
Don't be stingy.  Include MORE keys not LESS.

Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away.

[microsoft windows]

I will say: that is a very interesting layout. Have you tried it in the field yet?

[nomaded]

Personally, I would swap the backspace and enter keys -- so that backspace is hit with the left thumb, enter can be hit with either thumb, and space with the right thumb.

Also, I would second arranging the arrow keys in a row, instead of an inverted T. I use a vi-style arrangement for the arrow keys.

Since this is designed for heavy Emacs use, I would put the control keys in a location that's easily hit with the thumbs. I would possibly swap the left command key for control.