IBM Model M 1391401 vs Unicomp Customizer 101

[joneslee85]

Alrighty, I got for myself an Unicomp Customizer 101 already and now is considering getting an Model M. After a long research, I conclude that Model M 1391401 would be the one for me because its sturdy build quality compare to later models. I would like to ask if anyone here own this model M and how it feels compare to the Unicomp in term of material quality, tactile feeling, and other technical things.

[ozar]

Yes, I have 5 of them.  They are noticeably heavier and better built than the Customizers, and the key presses might be described as very slightly heavier.  You can't go wrong with the 1391401 unless you simply don't like the very large footprint.  This is the "classic" Model M that you refer to here.

[IBI]

Alrighty, I got for myself an Unicomp Customizer 101 already and now is considering getting an Model M. After a long research, I conclude that Model M 1391401 would be the one for me because its sturdy build quality compare to later models. I would like to ask if anyone here own this model M and how it feels compare to the Unicomp in term of material quality, tactile feeling, and other technical things.

I do own a 1391406 and while I can't comment on how it compares to a unicomp model M I wouldn't say it's all that well built. It is, however, heavily built with the materials used feeling much heavier grade than normal keyboard materials.

[clee]

Ha! The 1391401 as "heavy" ... you kids. The 1390120 and 1390131 are the "heavy" ones. The 1391401 is a lightweight in comparison, which would make the Unicomp models ... featherweights?

(No, seriously, they have thicker steel backplates.)

[ozar]

The 1390120 and 1390131 are the "heavy" ones.

That's true... I have a few of those as well and they are heavier.

[joneslee85]

That's true... I have a few of those as well and they are heavier.

If I remember correctly, each keypress weight is 85g, isn't it?

[ozar]

I was thinking that IBM Model M keys use approximately 30-40 grams of force but I could be wrong about that.  If so, perhaps someone that is certain will post a correction.

[huha]

BS are hard to press, I think about 80 cN. They are definitely harder than blue MX, which should be about 60 cN. 30-40 cN ("grams" is incorrect, but approximately equivalent to cN; we're talking about force here, not weight) would be very light. The lightest weighted keys on a Topre Realforce feature 35 cN.

-huha

[keyb_gr]

According to the BS patent, the maximum force is about 70 grams (the graph is labeled like that). It's not the maximum force alone that counts though, the work per keystroke seems like a better way to describe strain. And that comes out as roughly 50 g * .09" ~= 114 cN * mm for reaching the buckling point (= tactile + operating point) alone, to which you can add about another 55 g * .04" ~= 56 cN * mm for a total of 170 cN * mm if you bottom out at about 60 cN, or another 60 g * .05" ~= 76 cN * mm for a total of 190 cN * mm if you bottom out at 70 cN. (Precise values may be slightly different, this was a very rough manual numeric integration. An attempt at better accuracy resulted in about 124 cN * mm up to the buckling point.)
Values for Cherry switches are in this post.

[ozar]

Ah, did some searching and just found where I came up the with 30 to 40 grams of force thing:

The most widely produced buckling-spring keyswitch keyboard is the IBM model M keyboard. When pressing an individual key, the operator is physically applying increasing force (approximately 30 - 40 grams of force) against a coiled spring. The spring provides slight resistance, so that you can rest your fingers on the keyboard and not cause an accidental or inadvertent key press. Once the spring travels a particular distance (approx. 2.5 - 3.5mm), the spring reaches the "catastrophic buckling" point and produces an audible click at the same exact instance that the computer records the keystroke.

That came from the ClickyKeyboards.com website.  Not sure about the accuracy, though.

[wheel83]

although i feel the customizer is a great keyboard,  I must say that an original IBM Model M is built much better, with a higher quality.  One example is the middle of the bottom section of the keyboard.  On a Model M, it doesnt flex much and is solid, but on my customizer, it is much weaker.

[ozar]

although i feel the customizer is a great keyboard,  I must say that an original IBM Model M is built much better, with a higher quality.

That sounds highly accurate to me, and still leaves room for the Customizer to be one of the better currently built boards.  Their quality would be better if they'd take a little more time to clean up their work a bit, such as extra plastic hanging off of keys and such.

[msiegel]

it sounds like a spring stores a lot of energy... does most of it come back to the finger when a key is released?

[bigpook]

Boy, these numbers are all over the place.  All I know is my fingers say:

IBM BS>Unicomp BS>Blue Cherry>Brown Cherry>or=Topre

Anyone swerving from one extreme to the other seems to put their new board on Ebay in a week.

Expensive, but true...

- Ripster

I agree with your fingers, though I don't feel so much of a difference between the IBM BS and Unicomp BS. Everything else seems spot on to me.
I did just that when I sold my filco with brown cherries. Now I wish I kept it. My fingers freaked out after coming off of a BS keyboard.
For those in the same boat its best to wait at least a month maybe two before you make a decision. Otherwise, like me, you end up chasing your tail.

I do this with mice on a regular basis, I just don't sell them though. They just up end up in the closet to be re-discovered six months later....
: )

[D-EJ915]

the spring in the buckling spring system doesn't work in the way in which springs are supposed to...it sort of bends it to the side instead of compressing it if you get at what I'm saying...you know >_>;

[IBI]

it sounds like a spring stores a lot of energy... does most of it come back to the finger when a key is released?

Well if it didn't then there'd be nothing to push the key back up.

[viktor]

IBM 101 key clicky keyboard with coiled cable, part number is 1391401 - you get them super cheap from this company called NYCE - new york computer exchange...figured if anyone was in the market for them, these guys think its dead stock so they're cheaper than anyone else online -offer 20$ and its yours, shipped

-VIKTOR

[Culinia]

Boy, these numbers are all over the place.  All I know is my fingers say:

IBM BS>Unicomp BS>Blue Cherry>Brown Cherry>or=Topre

Anyone swerving from one extreme to the other seems to put their new board on Ebay in a week.

Expensive, but true...

- Ripster

So if I were buying a new keyboard coming from the blues, I should go for a unicomp and not browns/topre?

[bettablue]

Yeah, and more of these were built than the others.   You have to really like big and heavy though, deal with the coiled cable, and probably get a USB dongle.  The Unicomp also has a less metallic spring sound. I have pretty sensitive ears and picked up that difference right away.

In other words, you may want to give the Unicomp a longer trial run before deciding.

And not to add to the confusion have you considered Tenkeyless (no number pad)?  The IBM Model M Space Saver is another classic.

- Ripster

I am actually trying to get my wife to start using a regular keyboard with her laptop.  It drives me crazy when I have to do something on her system and the key I want is hidden in the compated mass of plastic found on laptops.  Finding the "Del" key for one.  If I can get her to go with a real keyboard, I am going to get her a tenkeyless.   And, if I can't find a tenkeyless model M, I'll try a Unicomp board (even though I personally am not too fond of Unicomp's models)

[viktor]

Hey, I'm selling a bunch of model M's, does anyone know someone interested?

[Pylon]

"grams" is incorrect, but approximately equivalent to cN; we're talking about force here, not weight) would be very light.
-huha

Weight IS Force. Grams usually refers to mass.