[Massdrop] JDS labs C5/C5D

[Binge]

Great prices for an amazing product.  Works with most modern android and apple devices by USB.  Sounds amazing - owner for 3+ months.


https://www.massdrop.com/buy/jds-labs-c5d-portable-dac-amp?mode=guest_open

[Lu_e]

Tryna decide between this or the audioengine D1. I like that the D1 has optical in for other situations or to go 'metallic-less' since I seem to have noisy USB. Thinking of changing motherboard because of that too, the gigabyte sniper g1 z97 has a dedicated 'low noise' DAC USB slot.

I like that the JDS has bass boost and gain though... for more $

[dorkvader]

optical is not perfect, you sometimes run into issues.

That said, I use optical on my audioengine D1 and it works great. I think it would be better with a better regulated 5V PSU (the D1 is still powered from USB, but I have it being powered by a "clean" separate USB power brick.)

[SpAmRaY]

I should really sell stuff I don't use so I could fund this. This looks like something I would use.

[dorkvader]

from the page:

"The internal signal path is purely resistive for reference quality THD and frequency response performance."

What's that even supposed to mean? No caps in the signal path? How does that affect THD and FR?

I mean I have an amp with caps and transformers an the output (as well as a tube gain / follower) and it's has great FR, and acceptable THD.

also:
"As for the volume adjustment, the digital stepped attenuation in single decibel intervals results in smooth volume control at all levels, even with your sensitive monitors."

digital volume attenuation is not smooth pretty much by definition. It's a stepped approximation of a logarhythmic scale. I'm sure it's fine but statements like that are very off putting.

I see it has an asynchronous DAC: Make sure you realize the implications of this. It will upsample / resample (probably not downsample, but it's possible, depending on the implementation. I wouldn't make any assumptions with so little real info here) all your input asynchronously which may be a good or bad thing. Again, do your homework.

Also looks like the Dynamic Range is 109 dB-A. I guess this is the SNR? since it's an important spec not listed. Be aware that this is lower than many soundcards (some about half the price), so you could just get that.

There are other benefits to this device, however, and it might be the best option for some.

Finally:
"Operable with Apple iOS7 devices and all UAC1 compatible operating systems,the C5D boasts ultra low jitter and impedance, resulting in natural frequency response with all headphones."

This run-on sentence (expresses too many diverse thoughts with only one full stop) is a little "off" to me as well. Jitter should not affect the frequency response appreciably, and I'm not sure what a "natural" FR would look like. I don't even know what they're trying to say here, which makes it hard to evaluate the veracity of the statement.

[Lu_e]

Wow man, always enjoy your technical perspective on these things, thanks for the info.

Making my struggle for clean audio even harder

Don't know if I should try a soundcard, new MB, or different interface styles/power options of amp/dac. Plus conventional USB power just always seems to bring noise. What do you think of the Danish USB isolator things? https://electronics-shop.dk/usb-isolator

I get the noise when moving my mouse, and am just not happy using; a Bravo V3, integrated sound on this Asrock MB, and Windows EQ. My old PC (a laptop), had this WavesMaxx software/EQ thing and it gave me plenty of punch. Now that i've got a new more powerful PC my sound/EQ is lacking so bad, even with the V3.

Also since you own the D1, does it bring any extra options under windows sound devices? Like bass boost/EQ stuff etc. & does going optical in any way lack in bass? It would be optical integrated into my MB...

and sorry i'm kinda new to 'the quest for ones perfect sound'. I have some headphones i'm happy with (ATH-M30), I just need some relatively noise-free sound and REAL bass or low frequency presence/representation (which I had with my laptop) & I would probably be really happy listening to things like;
https://soundcloud.com/afterglo/phaeleh-low

[Grr8]

Hobby crossover :-)

Didn't see this until after the drop was over.

Proper specs can be found here, without Massdrop's Engrish Marketing speak:

http://www.jdslabs.com/products/84/c5d-amplifier-dac/

And you can see the normal price, to see it was a great deal.

SNR is not the same as Dynamic Range and the jds website gives both.

Asynchronous DAC means the DAC uses its own clock and does not rely on the USB clock. This is a good thing. This reduces jitter. "Asynchronous" here is not referring to sample rate conversion. The D1 has this too.

The big advantages the C5D has over the AudioEngine D1:

1) works with iPhone / iPad with a Camera Connection Kit (CCK)
2) built in Lithium Ion battery for portability
3) digital volume control avoiding channel imbalance (with 1dB stepping, so very fine, certainly enough for most people)

What the D1 has:

1) 24-bit at 192 vs 96. So you can boast about a higher sample rate that has shown to be inaudible on double blind testing (DBT).

2) optical input

If I had to buy one only I would get the C5D, because I could use it with my iPhone (or support Android).

If

from the page:

"The internal signal path is purely resistive for reference quality THD and frequency response performance."

What's that even supposed to mean? No caps in the signal path? How does that affect THD and FR?

I mean I have an amp with caps and transformers an the output (as well as a tube gain / follower) and it's has great FR, and acceptable THD.

also:
"As for the volume adjustment, the digital stepped attenuation in single decibel intervals results in smooth volume control at all levels, even with your sensitive monitors."

digital volume attenuation is not smooth pretty much by definition. It's a stepped approximation of a logarhythmic scale. I'm sure it's fine but statements like that are very off putting.

I see it has an asynchronous DAC: Make sure you realize the implications of this. It will upsample / resample (probably not downsample, but it's possible, depending on the implementation. I wouldn't make any assumptions with so little real info here) all your input asynchronously which may be a good or bad thing. Again, do your homework.

Also looks like the Dynamic Range is 109 dB-A. I guess this is the SNR? since it's an important spec not listed. Be aware that this is lower than many soundcards (some about half the price), so you could just get that.

There are other benefits to this device, however, and it might be the best option for some.

Finally:
"Operable with Apple iOS7 devices and all UAC1 compatible operating systems,the C5D boasts ultra low jitter and impedance, resulting in natural frequency response with all headphones."

This run-on sentence (expresses too many diverse thoughts with only one full stop) is a little "off" to me as well. Jitter should not affect the frequency response appreciably, and I'm not sure what a "natural" FR would look like. I don't even know what they're trying to say here, which makes it hard to evaluate the veracity of the statement.

[dorkvader]

1) 24-bit at 192 vs 96. So you can boast about a higher sample rate that has shown to be inaudible on double blind testing (DBT).

It's important to note here that any improvement from a dac has also been shown to be inaudible (compared with onboard audio) in DBT.

That said, I was completely wrong on a number of important points. Though in my defence at least on one occasion, I was more unable to express myself correctly than simply "wrong".

Thanks for all the corrections.

[Grr8]

1) 24-bit at 192 vs 96. So you can boast about a higher sample rate that has shown to be inaudible on double blind testing (DBT).

It's important to note here that any improvement from a dac has also been shown to be inaudible (compared with onboard audio) in DBT.

I think if the onboard DAC is good and the external one poorly implemented (like the NuForce uDAC-02 - http://nwavguy.blogspot.com.au/2011/02/nuforce-udac-2-drama.html) this would be true.

External DACs offer do improvements, especially for cheap computers or cheap Android phones, some of which have been shown to have cheapest, off-brand DAC chips. Also an external DAC has a advantage of being away from all the stray RF signals inside the cases of phones and computers. The RF signals that can cause sound like your phone can do to a separate speaker when a call is coming in.

Also by way of example, in a DBT shootout some guys from Tom's Hardware picked out the $2 Realtek ALC889 on 3 our of 4 tests (the exception being the loudness war Daft Punk "Get Lucky" track):

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/high-end-pc-audio,3733.html

For the other DACs, they had trouble picking between them.

So white a good modern on-board DAC chip like a Realtek ALC889 is impressive, it can be beaten, and this has been shown in DBT.

That said, I was completely wrong on a number of important points. Though in my defence at least on one occasion, I was more unable to express myself correctly than simply "wrong".

Thanks for all the corrections.

Sorry, I wrote my reply tired and with haste. I should shown more respect.

Most of the your misunderstanding was due to the terrible information provided on Massdrop's page which was confusing and full of marketing-speak. JDS's own page is very low on marketing and just full of specs.