Board of mixed kailh and Cherry's.

[mouse.the.lucky.dog]

With the proliferation of keyboards with Kailh switches a big question comes up.
What if a switch breaks for some reason.

From what I've seen, you can't buy a replacement kailh switches. ( Probably in the future, but who knows when. )

Of course there is the obvious solution.

Get a Cherry keyswitch and use it.

The one problem might be different feels in the keyswitches.

So has anyone tried a mixed Kailh and Cherry keyboard?

[BlueBär]

The feel will probably be different, even if just slightly. For example, I read a few times that if someone got a new MX Blue board that it feels different from the one they had before. There's various factors that play into this even if it is the same switch, break-in and batch for example.

However if just one switch is broken, you could for example take a still working switch from the F-row (or some other key you don't use often) and replace the defect switch with that one, and then replace the switch of the F-row with an MX switch. This way you wouldn't mind the difference that much.

[berserkfan]

With the proliferation of keyboards with Kailh switches a big question comes up.
What if a switch breaks for some reason.

From what I've seen, you can't buy a replacement kailh switches. ( Probably in the future, but who knows when. )

Of course there is the obvious solution.

Get a Cherry keyswitch and use it.

The one problem might be different feels in the keyswitches.

So has anyone tried a mixed Kailh and Cherry keyboard?

The best way not to have this problem, is to start Quality right from the start.

Investing in a good quality Cherry MX board, is probably a lot cheaper and less time consuming in the long run. When I buy a keyboard, I don't want to think about replacing any switch.

Do you really have to buy that Razer 2014?

[FoxWolf1]

Newmen has manufactured some keyboards with a mixture of old-generation Kailh Red switches (the ones with a weight intermediate between red and black) and actual MX Blacks. Cherry switches on WASD and the arrows, Kailhs everywhere else. These got sold under the Genius and Shogun Bros brands, and maybe one or two others. Of course there was a difference in feel, but then, in that case, there wasn't any real effort being made to make the two identical.

As for replacing a newer-generation Kailh with a regular MX, it's "compatible", so you can do it, but it might not feel entirely identical, especially if the Kailhs are of the kind designed for a higher activation point. On the other hand, there are some pretty cheap keyboards using Kailh switches, so when we get to the point where Kailh boards are starting to get sold used or for parts, it might not be too painful on the wallet to get a donor board to transfer from. Also, at least some brands are offering long warranties on their Kailh boards to increase confidence, so it won't be your problem to worry about for a while (unless you void the warranty).

[mouse.the.lucky.dog]

The best way not to have this problem, is to start Quality right from the start.

Investing in a good quality Cherry MX board, is probably a lot cheaper and less time consuming in the long run. When I buy a keyboard, I don't want to think about replacing any switch.

Do you really have to buy that Razer 2014?

I  wouldn't get a razer even if it was made with Cherrys.

It's not for a while yet, the next keyboard I plan on getting will be fullsize, backlit ( hopefully not red LEDs )  if possible made with Cherry blues or greens, if not then Kailh blue.

The thing is I'm seeing manufacterors and keyboards going by the wayside.
The Poseidon is gone.  Rosewill looks gone ( who knows maybe Rosewill will have more batchs of RK-9100 with Cherry ), Noppoo is gone. I have to admit Noppoo has freaked me out a little.

I'm concerned that there won't be affordable stuff available soon. So I want to be prepared.

I'm not concerned about kailh bveing slightly different from Cherry's every keyswitch feels slightly differenent. What I am concerned is that the difference is so large that if ( as an example ) I have ten Cherry's on a keyboard and I hit one of them--I think-- Oh yeah that was a Cherry.

[False_Dmitry_II]

The best way not to have this problem, is to start Quality right from the start.

Investing in a good quality Cherry MX board, is probably a lot cheaper and less time consuming in the long run. When I buy a keyboard, I don't want to think about replacing any switch.

Do you really have to buy that Razer 2014?

You still have no proof of current gen kailh switches being bad quality. I really think people need to stop assuming that, because that's what it is - an unfounded assumption, until such a time as there is actual data of them. Look for threads about broken stem, there was one recently, or sticky cherry or non-clicking cherry blues, there are plenty. I've seen more threads about problems with cherry switches than problems about kailh. From people who have actually used kailh, generally they only say good things about them. This also anecdotal evidence tells me that cherry is, in fact, the one to be avoided.

Not that I really care either way, because I more-or-less agree with Matias about MX, but this is really annoying.

I'm not concerned about kailh bveing slightly different from Cherry's every keyswitch feels slightly differenent. What I am concerned is that the difference is so large that if ( as an example ) I have ten Cherry's on a keyboard and I hit one of them--I think-- Oh yeah that was a Cherry.

If this totally hypothetical situation happened, then you'd just put the 10 cherry switches on the F-keys, or generally anywhere else other than the alpha-block. The difference in feel would then not matter.

[Hak Foo]

I agree.  The malice you see towards Kalih is a bit absurd.  They seem to be trying to be a legit competitor and build their own brand, as opposed to just hiding as a no-name off-brand supplier.

I expect to see this as an opportunity to diversify the available products -- with stuff offering different properties than Cherry can offer, but without the huge retooling associated with, say, going ALPS/Matias style.

[False_Dmitry_II]

Well, I'd prefer at least someone eventually does RGB with Matias (who were first with transparent switches). Or even putting the same amount of effort as he did and revive some other switch with it's patent out.

But yeah, I think it's a valid option. There are countless clone alps and clone cherry, and it's difficult to track down who made them, whereas Kailh really is intentionally branding everything. It's other vendors who then do stuff like claiming 100% mechanical blue switch instead of saying Kailh.

[xuanwumen]

Here is one specification datasheet of Kailh switches applied on the new keycool 87 mechanical keyboards.
Might be something interesting.

[Kayla]

It looks like Kailh may be trying to elaborate on the switch variety and not just copy cherry outright.

[BlueBär]

It looks like Kailh may be trying to elaborate on the switch variety and not just copy cherry outright.

By copying the 4 main switch types Cherry produces?

[Kayla]

I was being sarcastic. lol

Its literally like the blueprints of Cherrys switches.

[BlueBär]

I was being sarcastic. lol

Its literally like the blueprints of Cherrys switches.

Oh right, sarcasm is sometimes hard to see over the internet )

[davkol]

I agree.  The malice you see towards Kalih is a bit absurd.  They seem to be trying to be a legit competitor and build their own brand, as opposed to just hiding as a no-name off-brand supplier.

They're a Chinese company with no known track of producing high-quality equipment—until proven otherwise. I find testing it on actual consumers socially and environmentally irresponsible.

[xuanwumen]

I agree.  The malice you see towards Kalih is a bit absurd.  They seem to be trying to be a legit competitor and build their own brand, as opposed to just hiding as a no-name off-brand supplier.

They're a Chinese company with no known track of producing high-quality equipment—until proven otherwise. I find testing it on actual consumers socially and environmentally irresponsible.

Keycool company is located in China and has been established for 3 years. They released their 3rd year anniversary version keyboards also in beginning of this year. Keycool keyboards also establlish itself as a steady and stable quality product in the average level, not the 1st tier manufacturers yet. This is also evident in its selling price.  Due to cherry switches supply limit, keycool now shifts to new gen.kailh switches. Kailh, as switches manufacturer, they have done investigations and tests on it. Keycool does not come accross with kailh and decide to use it in a hassle. It is a choice made with evaluation and determination. Consumers are the final users of the products, but not deemed as testers of the products. Just need to have some to be pioneers in accepting new stuff. 

[davkol]

Keycool company is located in China and has been established for 3 years.

This is a joke, right?

I understand you're a vendor and the company wants to generate profit. That's fine. Actually, it isn't. The important question is—AT WHAT COST?! (Apollo face no space) There's this thing called negative externalities. Most libertarians (and conservatives) love to avoid it. It might be impact on the environment (that affects all of us), the way involved people are treated etc. Essentially, there are two paths to avoid these issues—outsource production to 3rd world countries/PRC (not really a solution), or deal with them locally, which usually results in a higher price tag. However, you know what they say...

I'm not rich enough to buy cheap things.

So far, I've seen no keyboards with Kailh switches that fit in the "built to last" category, but they're "wow, a shiny thing!" instead. The connection to the materialist view of economy is obvious.

/rant

[00zeRO]

So much angst against a keyswitch that I simply find just fine. I have been using the Keycool TKL sample Keycool provided us with, and I must say I absolutely love it. If I were to have anything negative to say about it is that is has an upward Clack opposite of bottoming out, but that may be the PBT keycaps and not the switch. Plus, they boast having an extra 10 million keypresses compared to Cherry. I love Cherry's and now I get to love Kailh's. The only problem I truly have is that I have to type out compatible after talking about a switch that is like a Cherry MX. That gets very tiring...

By the way, Chinese-made does not always equal poor quality. Look at the track record of the Ducky Zero's, they have a way better defect rate than standard Ducky's.

My concern has to do with the current Kailh price. They should be able to come in with a lower price per switch in order to gain consumer confidence after trials.

[CPTBadAss]

I think Samwisekoi said he was going to have some Kailh switches soldered into his Rosewill at Keycon West 2014. I'll have to try it and report back my thoughts.

[rowdy]

Bad feeling might have stemmed from poor quality switches in the past.

Maybe with Razor behind Kailh, the quality has increased.

[mouse.the.lucky.dog]

Bad feeling might have stemmed from poor quality switches in the past.

Maybe with Razor behind Kailh, the quality has increased.

Whoever you got that stuff from... don't use him anymore.

[Hak Foo]

They're a Chinese company with no known track of producing high-quality equipment—until proven otherwise. I find testing it on actual consumers socially and environmentally irresponsible.

Would you like to tell me how you'd otherwise test them?  There's only so much you can do in a lab.  There's no standardized test for "user pours an entire glass of strawberry Fanta in it, then hides the evidence."

I don't own any Kailh switch boards, but I'm willing to give them as a company the benefit of the doubt.

The comparison with Ducky boards was an interesting analogue.  The 1008 series boards-- I've owned both MX and Alps-- are pretty flimsy and don't scream quality.  But nobody would debate that they've raised their game, in a surprisingly short time.

[rowdy]

Bad feeling might have stemmed from poor quality switches in the past.

Maybe with Razor behind Kailh, the quality has increased.

Whoever you got that stuff from... don't use him anymore.

LOL I just read what I wrote.

But what I was trying to say is that Razer's reputation would only go downhill if the Kailh switches were poor quality.  Cherry switches were the high point of a Razer keyboard - they wouldn't want to lose that to a low-quality replacement.

[davkol]

Plus, they boast having an extra 10 million keypresses compared to Cherry.

Last time I checked, Cherry Corp. rated¹ their switches for at least 50M actuations, while Razer claimed² their switches (i.e. Kailh knock offs) were to last up to 60M actuations. Besides, Kailh themselves mention "long life 50 million actuations" on their website. This is devious marketing from Razer and a possible reading-comprehension failure.

¹ from Cherry's website:

MX Gold Crosspoint Keyswitches Exceed 50 Million Operations to Withstand Harsh Environments and Ensure Long Product Lifetime

² from Razer's website:

Ultra durable – up to 60 million key strokes

They're a Chinese company with no known track of producing high-quality equipment—until proven otherwise. I find testing it on actual consumers socially and environmentally irresponsible.

Would you like to tell me how you'd otherwise test them?  There's only so much you can do in a lab.  There's no standardized test for "user pours an entire glass of strawberry Fanta in it, then hides the evidence."

The obvious answer is that I wouldn't test them. Besides, the manufacturer has no data or control over the testing in that case, except possible RMA rates.

That's the point of having a dedicated facility; I'm fairly confident industrial/enterprise vendors take that into account.

[Lu_e]

So much angst against a keyswitch that I simply find just fine. I have been using the Keycool TKL sample Keycool provided us with, and I must say I absolutely love it. If I were to have anything negative to say about it is that is has an upward Clack opposite of bottoming out, but that may be the PBT keycaps and not the switch. Plus, they boast having an extra 10 million keypresses compared to Cherry. I love Cherry's and now I get to love Kailh's. The only problem I truly have is that I have to type out compatible after talking about a switch that is like a Cherry MX. That gets very tiring...

By the way, Chinese-made does not always equal poor quality. Look at the track record of the Ducky Zero's, they have a way better defect rate than standard Ducky's.

My concern has to do with the current Kailh price. They should be able to come in with a lower price per switch in order to gain consumer confidence after trials.

For me it's also the blatant copy of Cherry's colors & switch types. Why couldn't they be original? Just looks bad IMO.

Not to mention the confusion it brings, but that was probably why they did it.

[Roibhilin]

the same reason people like XM Alps