What's with laptop keyboard layouts?

[Hak Foo]

Stupid question:

In the old days, when laptops had 8"-10" screens and were defined, width-wise, by the keyboard, they tried for full-size cursor and editing keys.

Now, we have 17" and even the occasional 18-20" laptop, and there's room for an even bigger, more complete keyboard.

So what do we get?

Half-size arrow keys.  Often with a full numeric keypad.

What's that about?

[chimera15]

laptop keyboards are dumb.  Noone who actually uses a laptop for any time should use a laptop keyboard anyway.

 There were actually Dell laptops in the p4 series that if you typed on the keyboard it would cause the motherboard to crack. lol Dell was put out millions by that flaw, but it shows how bad design, lack of thought, and pointlessness of laptop keyboards are.

  No laptop should actually have a keyboard built into it in my mind.  I have all tablet pc's for my laptops, the best ones are slates that don't have keyboards, they come with externals usually, but even those usually suck. lol

[patrickgeekhack]

laptop keyboards are dumb.  Noone who actually uses a laptop for any time should use a laptop keyboard anyway.

 There were actually Dell laptops in the p4 series that if you typed on the keyboard it would cause the motherboard to crack. lol Dell was put out millions by that flaw, but it shows how bad design, lack of thought, and pointlessness of laptop keyboards are.

  No laptop should actually have a keyboard built into it in my mind.  I have all tablet pc's for my laptops, the best ones are slates that don't have keyboards, they come with externals usually, but even those usually suck. lol

I have not used a Thinkpad for long enough to voice an opinion. However, MacBooks have very good keyboards. I think it's the best laptop keyboard I've ever used: no flex whatsoever.

[Busty]

I hate it when 17" Laptops don't have centered keyboards, better no numpad and centered for me.

[kyamei]

I hate laptops, not to mention the keyboard's scissor switches and layout.  Buying a laptop was the worse $1300 I've ever spent, 4 Topre's would have been money much better spent.  It gets turned on about once a month -- for HTPC duties.

A bit more on topic, the numpad is actually a selling point for a decent chunk of customers I get at work (I work retail for now).  I hear more people concerned about the texture of the touchpad than the keyboard feel/layout though.

[lowpoly]

I hate it when 17" Laptops don't have centered keyboards, better no numpad and centered for me.

Seconded.

[huha]

I have not used a Thinkpad for long enough to voice an opinion. However, MacBooks have very good keyboards. I think it's the best laptop keyboard I've ever used: no flex whatsoever.

Macbooks have pretty bad keyboards as far as I'm concerned. The horrible chicklet-style keys are just a pain to use, if you're not having the US layout, certain keys (Return!) get horribly small and PgUp/PgDown can only be activated using two keys. Please, this is not a keyboard, it's a toy.
I could understand this kind of decision on a really small keyboard for netbooks, but the Macbook's crippled layout is just a joke.

Thinkpad keyboards, while not perfect, are better. Newer models tend to have some problems with keyboard flexing, which is a shame, but I don't think it affects actual typing. Yes, the keyboard does flex, but you need quite some force to cause it to flex. It still looks ugly and cheap, though, so even if it doesn't affect typing, it should be remedied.
What I like about the Thinkpad's keyboard:
- grouped F-Keys
- Ins/Del/Home/End/PgUp/PdDown are grouped as well and remain as a block. This is just great when you are one of the few people who actually uses these keys.
- Fn is in a nice position, but opinions differ on that one
What I don't like:
- Half-sized cursor keys
- Esc in the wrong position

-huha

[vyshane]

I think that the MacBooks use chicklet keys because this allows the frame to be more rigid. I'm not impressed with the MacBook's keyboard. The keyboard on the MacBook Air has a nicer, firmer feel to it. I also like Thinkpad keyboards and the old PowerBook keyboards. Most other laptops that I've used had totally rubbish keyboards. Lots of flex, barely any feedback.

[itlnstln]

My Dell laptop keyboard isn't too bad, but I prefer to use it docked, anyway.  If am going to be using it undocked for extended periods of time, I break out the ML-4100.

[watduzhkstand4]

I think laptops are gay in general. Custom rig ftw!

[ch_123]

My Thinkpad T61's keyboard is perfectly useable. In fact, I'd rather it over any crappy OEM desktop board that I am likely to encounter.

[IBI]

I think laptops are gay in general. Custom rig ftw!

The small and light <=12" 1kg laptops are pretty good, ideal for listing to iPlayer in bed or looking stuff up quickly.

[Hak Foo]

I agree, IBI.

On the desk-- a Phenom II in a tower case large enough that you can cling to it in the event of a flood, and on the nightstand, a netbook.

[huha]

I think laptops are gay in general. Custom rig ftw!

It depends. I love desktops, but the appeal of laptops has risen to extreme amounts lately. They're cheap and powerful these days; they don't use up space and can be stowed away for that ultra-clean look.

My main computer is a Thinkpad, mostly because I spend variable amounts of time at home, at university or with my family. Synchronizing several computers is just a pain, especially over the internet (generally, 2-6 Mbit/s downstream here with 192-512 kbit/s upstream); plus, I'd have to buy peripherals for every location I use my computer; this is just not practical. I can take my laptop (plus some external drives for seldom-used data) pretty much anywhere on a whim, so it makes sense to have one. At least it does have discrete graphics, so I can play the occasional game.

My Thinkpad T61's keyboard is perfectly useable. In fact, I'd rather it over any crappy OEM desktop board that I am likely to encounter.

I concur.

-huha

[D-EJ915]

I hate it when 17" Laptops don't have centered keyboards, better no numpad and centered for me.

yep, seems like the stupidity of desktops moved onto the laptop realm.  Even on normal laptops the keyboard isn't centered bc the layout is bigger on the right anyway but it's much better than on those monstrosities

[Eclairz]

I own and use my macbook, i used to use its keyboard, yes it is annoying not to have a full layout keyboard and super short key travel, but laptops have to have compromises for being small.

I haven't used it for a while, but i remember prefering the way the macbook did page up, page down, home and end with the arrow keys. This reduced the movement of my hands from the home row. Similar to how a HHKB pro 2 works, so layout wise i think the macbook is fine. If cherry came out with a mechanical keyboard with the macbook's layout I would definitely get one, it just felt perfectly fine using chorded keys, if you can't press two keys at once i guess your more of a hunt and pecker typer and i'm a programmer so i make regular use of page up/dn, home and end keys.

So the only thing I have against the macbook keyboard layout is missing numpad and needs the "fn" key to be programmable for more chorded short cuts. I still prefer mechanical keyboards for the clicky sound and the longer key travel though.

[itlnstln]

I only recommend laptops to people that are going to do a lot of mobile computing (shocker).  A lot of people, though, waste a ton of money on a laptop, and it just sits on a desk like a desktop.  These days, I usually recommend a desktop and a netbook combo for people deadset on blowing a ton of money on a "desktop with a screen."  I use my laptop quite a bit, but, fortunately, work pays for mine.

[patrickgeekhack]

I only recommend laptops to people that are going to do a lot of mobile computing (shocker).  A lot of people, though, waste a ton of money on a laptop, and it just sits on a desk like a desktop.  These days, I usually recommend a desktop and a netbook combo for people deadset on blowing a ton of money on a "desktop with a screen."  I use my laptop quite a bit, but, fortunately, work pays for mine.

My MacBook was my first laptop ever. I wanted to try a Mac for the first time, but the iMac was not running Intel CPUs yet. That said, it does sit on my desk most of the time, but I have had a few times when I needed portability and I was happy I had it. But, I have been saying the same think as you. Nowadays, a desktop and a netbook is probably the best combo.

[IBI]

It depends. I love desktops, but the appeal of laptops has risen to extreme amounts lately. They're cheap and powerful these days; they don't use up space and can be stowed away for that ultra-clean look.

I suppose that depends on what sort of furniture you've got, a monitor arm would do the same job if you've got a closed desk and for me looks much cooler. (I am tempted to get one myself just for that reason).

and needs the "fn" key to be programmable for more chorded short cuts.

Yeah, that is annoying. My new shortboard is the same - the fn key is implemented in hardware unlike all the other keys so it's impossible to switch it's location or use it for anything else.

I'm waiting ONE MORE YEAR for netbook screen technology to get better - they are almost there.

What sort of improvement are you expecting? Netbook screens aren't any worse than other cheap laptops and OLEDs aren't likely to be common and cheap in once year hence.

[chimera15]

I have a Fujitsu 1510D 8.9" tablet - I call it the "Granddaddy" of netbooks.  Unfortunately I never really got into the touchscreen tablet part because of: 1) my bad handwriting 2) not ergonomic to keep your wrist bent to use.

Still use it all the time for web browsing.  Since it's all metal I leave it propped on my armchair and don't have to freak when it falls (a frequent occurrence).

I'm waiting ONE MORE YEAR for netbook screen technology to get better - they are almost there.

That system is still far more powerful than most netbooks.  I was looking at benchmarks and was surprised to find the atom processor is only about as powerful as a p3.  Your centrino is like twice as powerful as any netbook.  I have an older acer c110 that I got cheap off ebay that I love, same processor, but active wacom digitizer and still really small.  Use it all the time.
 
I mainly use an igo bluetooth keyboard with it that I've velcro'd to the carrying case over the top of the screen.  That combined with the pen make it really nice to use.  ultra portable. It's as close to the functionality of a piece of paper as you can get with a tablet pc probably.

I also have an oqo+, which is the smallest fully functional windows tabletpc ever made.  I don't use it that often cause I'm scared of breaking it. lol  If my c110 dies, I'm out $100-200, if that as I have a good chance of repairing it super cheap..if the oqo dies I'm out $400+ and chance of repairing it is very minimal.  lol