Author Topic: [IC] - Matias 60% ALPS keyboard with Cherry-compatible PCB  (Read 126798 times)

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Offline Lunatique

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Re: [IC] - Matias 60% ALPS keyboard with Cherry-compatible PCB
« Reply #450 on: Thu, 26 January 2017, 12:35:53 »
It also depends highly on what kind of task you need to do with your keyboard. For example, visual artists often need to be operating the keyboard with only one hand, while the other hand is busy using a digital drawing tablet or mouse, and many visual art software use the F1-F12 hotkeys often.

For many types of work, the navigation cluster is critical, as there's a need to constantly jump up down entire pages, or jump to beginning or end of documents or a line of text, or use the arrow keys. If a keyboard is missing all those important Function and navigation cluster keys just to trim off a couple of inches, it becomes very clunky to use--particularly macros that require combination of keys. A simple CTRL+Home now requires threes keys (CTRL+_Fn+designated Home key). Even just a simple Page Up or Down now requires Fn+Designated Page Up/Down key. When you are using the navigation cluster constantly, you are adding a ridiculous amount of additional key-presses and key combos that you now have to memorize.

And while being able to program keys so that the navigation cluster can be placed at the home row, making it easier to move the cursor around while typing (and for that purpose, I use TouchCursor, which is f-ing awesome), whenever you're not actually typing (such as when using a mouse), key-combos to execute the navigation cluster keys is far less intuitive/speedy than just pressing the keys in a navigation cluster. If I'm browsing web pages or documents, I do not want to constantly have to use some kind of Fn+Designated keys to execute simple navigation like Page Up/Down, Home/End, or Arrow keys. Just pressing on the keys in the navigation cluster is far, far faster/simpler, not to mention they are located right next to the mouse, and I just tap the Page Up/Down keys with my mouse hand's thumb (most people are right-handed)

Whenever I see people saying that once they got used to a 60% keyboard, they actually prefer it, I have to wonder how that's possible considering what I mentioned above.
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Offline Hypersphere

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Re: [IC] - Matias 60% ALPS keyboard with Cherry-compatible PCB
« Reply #451 on: Thu, 26 January 2017, 13:01:34 »
Most of the time I use my HHKB, and my work consists of computational molecular modeling and lots of writing.

Offline belac

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Re: [IC] - Matias 60% ALPS keyboard with Cherry-compatible PCB
« Reply #452 on: Thu, 26 January 2017, 13:13:52 »


Whenever I see people saying that once they got used to a 60% keyboard, they actually prefer it, I have to wonder how that's possible considering what I mentioned above.

That is the point of what I was saying above. I said exactly the same things you said about them before I tried one for awhile. Most of the scenarios you describe is how I use mine. Almost all of my shortcuts are 4 key presses now, and I prefer it to performing a 3 key press on a standard keyboard most of the time.  Without giving it an honest try, there is no way to know. It is really the same as anything else new... if you approach it with the mindset that it won't work for you because it's not just like the thing you're used to, it probably won't. It is like being reluctant to transition from a horse to a car because you were worried the seats would be less comfortable than your saddle. They might be... but you won't know until you try and you might discover something awesome in the process :-)


Offline Lunatique

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Re: [IC] - Matias 60% ALPS keyboard with Cherry-compatible PCB
« Reply #453 on: Thu, 26 January 2017, 14:05:33 »


Whenever I see people saying that once they got used to a 60% keyboard, they actually prefer it, I have to wonder how that's possible considering what I mentioned above.

That is the point of what I was saying above. I said exactly the same things you said about them before I tried one for awhile. Most of the scenarios you describe is how I use mine. Almost all of my shortcuts are 4 key presses now, and I prefer it to performing a 3 key press on a standard keyboard most of the time.  Without giving it an honest try, there is no way to know. It is really the same as anything else new... if you approach it with the mindset that it won't work for you because it's not just like the thing you're used to, it probably won't. It is like being reluctant to transition from a horse to a car because you were worried the seats would be less comfortable than your saddle. They might be... but you won't know until you try and you might discover something awesome in the process :-)

I have the Leopold FC660C, and it's not even a 60% and I already couldn't stand having to do all those additional key-presses to do what I could do on a TKL with just one key-press. Same thing with any of my laptops that require me to use the Fn+Whatever for commands that I would only need one key-press for on a TKL.

So it's not that I haven't tried--I did, for a couple of years now, and hated it. That is why I'm selling off all of my keyboards that contain less keys than TKL form-factor.
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Offline Hyde

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Re: [IC] - Matias 60% ALPS keyboard with Cherry-compatible PCB
« Reply #454 on: Thu, 26 January 2017, 16:16:42 »


Whenever I see people saying that once they got used to a 60% keyboard, they actually prefer it, I have to wonder how that's possible considering what I mentioned above.

That is the point of what I was saying above. I said exactly the same things you said about them before I tried one for awhile. Most of the scenarios you describe is how I use mine. Almost all of my shortcuts are 4 key presses now, and I prefer it to performing a 3 key press on a standard keyboard most of the time.  Without giving it an honest try, there is no way to know. It is really the same as anything else new... if you approach it with the mindset that it won't work for you because it's not just like the thing you're used to, it probably won't. It is like being reluctant to transition from a horse to a car because you were worried the seats would be less comfortable than your saddle. They might be... but you won't know until you try and you might discover something awesome in the process :-)

I have the Leopold FC660C, and it's not even a 60% and I already couldn't stand having to do all those additional key-presses to do what I could do on a TKL with just one key-press. Same thing with any of my laptops that require me to use the Fn+Whatever for commands that I would only need one key-press for on a TKL.

So it's not that I haven't tried--I did, for a couple of years now, and hated it. That is why I'm selling off all of my keyboards that contain less keys than TKL form-factor.

Same boat here, I gave my Poker 2 a solid one year of use before it eventually fall to my least used keyboard now.

I only use full size keyboard now (I use arrow key, 6 pack cluster, and number pad A LOT).

This is what I tell people these days, usage dictates form factor.  :P

Archiss ProgresTouch Retro - Gateron Yellow  |  Topre Realforce 104UW - 45g Silent  |  Topre Type Heaven  |  Beige Filco Ninja 104 - MX Red  |  Das Keyboard - MX Brown  |  Poker II - MX Red  |  Race II - MX Brown  |  Matias Quiet Pro - Matias Dampened ALPS  |  Logitech K840 - Romer G  |  Cherry MX Board 2.0 - MX Red  |  Cherry G84-4100 - ML  |  IBM Model M
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Offline Lunatique

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Re: [IC] - Matias 60% ALPS keyboard with Cherry-compatible PCB
« Reply #455 on: Thu, 26 January 2017, 16:22:59 »


Whenever I see people saying that once they got used to a 60% keyboard, they actually prefer it, I have to wonder how that's possible considering what I mentioned above.

That is the point of what I was saying above. I said exactly the same things you said about them before I tried one for awhile. Most of the scenarios you describe is how I use mine. Almost all of my shortcuts are 4 key presses now, and I prefer it to performing a 3 key press on a standard keyboard most of the time.  Without giving it an honest try, there is no way to know. It is really the same as anything else new... if you approach it with the mindset that it won't work for you because it's not just like the thing you're used to, it probably won't. It is like being reluctant to transition from a horse to a car because you were worried the seats would be less comfortable than your saddle. They might be... but you won't know until you try and you might discover something awesome in the process :-)

I have the Leopold FC660C, and it's not even a 60% and I already couldn't stand having to do all those additional key-presses to do what I could do on a TKL with just one key-press. Same thing with any of my laptops that require me to use the Fn+Whatever for commands that I would only need one key-press for on a TKL.

So it's not that I haven't tried--I did, for a couple of years now, and hated it. That is why I'm selling off all of my keyboards that contain less keys than TKL form-factor.

Same boat here, I gave my Poker 2 a solid one year of use before it eventually fall to my least used keyboard now.

I only use full size keyboard now (I use arrow key, 6 pack cluster, and number pad A LOT).

This is what I tell people these days, usage dictates form factor.  :P

I can't use full-sized keyboards unless they are left-handed versions, which is ironic, because the default keyboard layout is used by overwhelming majority of people, who happens to also be right-handed, yet its layout is so unfriendly to right-handed people when using a mouse. The keyboard's typing center is pushed to the left by the mouse, and that is a huge problem. This is why I have to use TKL and then add a standalone numpad to the left side.
My website + Blog: www.ethereality.info

Offline belac

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Re: [IC] - Matias 60% ALPS keyboard with Cherry-compatible PCB
« Reply #456 on: Thu, 26 January 2017, 16:31:13 »
This is what I tell people these days, usage dictates form factor. 

Amen to that! If I had to type a lot of numbers, I would have to go back to a fullsize or at least add a numpad. Although, it is interesting that you and I have the same nav cluster needs, yet we find opposite layouts more comfortable and efficient. I use my Poker at work and a TKL at home, and I always miss something about my Poker while at home, but I never miss my TKL at work. This is why I think it is important for everyone to try different things for themselves. We're all different and deserve to have what works best for us. I'm looking forward to this Matias 60 board because I think it will the perfect one for me... but if not, it's still fun to try new things.

Offline babel

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Re: [IC] - Matias 60% ALPS keyboard with Cherry-compatible PCB
« Reply #457 on: Sun, 23 April 2017, 15:10:12 »

It seems like the closest thing would be 84-key keyboards, but those have the problem of erasing all spaces between clusters, thus harder to hit specific keys with muscle memory/tactile feel alone.

If Matias (or any other company) made something like what you're describing (Matias 60% but with all 12 tiny Function keys at the top, or anywhere else), I would buy it in a heartbeat. But this goes back to my original question--how many people have such tiny desk spaces that they need to shave off that extra couple of inches from a TKL layout?

I'm there, but please keep the function keys at or near the top.  Putting anything to the right or left of the Return or Cap-Locks (respectively) messes up people who write and type simultaneously.  That is my sole reason for going 60%.  I have a HHKB instead of a Leopold for this reason.  Leopold extends too far for my dominant hand.  Every little bit counts. 


Edit:  Found a kickstarter today with one.  [https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/lofree-typewriter-inspired-mechanical-keyboard-design-technology#/comments](lofree-typewriter).  While I was positive I would get one yesterday, only having gateron blue (I'm used to hhkb topre) and the odd shape of the keys is throwing me off.  What do people think of this?  /u/Lunatique /u/Luminair ? 
« Last Edit: Mon, 24 April 2017, 08:55:22 by babel »

Offline Elrick

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Re: [IC] - Matias 60% ALPS keyboard with Cherry-compatible PCB
« Reply #458 on: Wed, 26 April 2017, 06:26:49 »
Is this available as of yet?

Haven't seen it produced, so I was wondering if this is another type of 'vapour-ware' proposal gone nowhere?

Offline zutroy

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Re: [IC] - Matias 60% ALPS keyboard with Cherry-compatible PCB
« Reply #459 on: Wed, 26 April 2017, 08:08:01 »
Is this available as of yet?

Haven't seen it produced, so I was wondering if this is another type of 'vapour-ware' proposal gone nowhere?

https://matias.store/products/60-keyboard

Offline Matias

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Re: [IC] - Matias 60% ALPS keyboard with Cherry-compatible PCB
« Reply #460 on: Wed, 26 April 2017, 08:47:37 »

This project is definitely still on.  I'm in China now and it's one of the things we're working on this trip.  Latest update below...

The main thing that delayed this GB (which should have been finished long ago) was our commitment to including Black PBT caps with White legends.  That turned an otherwise straightward build into an odyssey that's still ongoing.  I'm happy to report that we've solved this problem -- as you can see in the photo below. These are our latest test samples.


166968-0


Black looks great but the white caps are lasering a little too black.  Ideally they would laser to grey.  We hope to have this fixed soon.

My original intention was to use ALPS-style stabilizer clips on the mounting plate, and a balance bar that would fit both Cherry and ALPS.  That's what you see in the original photos.

However, after a bunch of prototyping, it's clear that this is not the best approach -- so we are switching to using Costar-style stabilizer clips for both ALPS and Cherry.  We've designed and tooled up a Cherry stab hook that fits onto ALPS caps, and are already using it for spacebars on our existing products.  These will be used for all the modifiers on the 60% keyboard.


166970-1


Because of this change, there will be different balance bars for Cherry vs. ALPS, but the mounting clips will be the same, so it's just a small difference.

This change also makes it easier to swap out ALPS switches for Cherry, and vice-versa.  We're very excited about the possibilities.

I know this GB has gone glacially slow.  For anyone who is not prepared to wait it out, we are happy to offer refunds.

Thanks for your support...

« Last Edit: Wed, 26 April 2017, 08:52:48 by Matias »

Offline dante

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Re: [IC] - Matias 60% ALPS keyboard with Cherry-compatible PCB
« Reply #461 on: Wed, 26 April 2017, 08:54:53 »
Matias: Can you take a photo comparing the thickness of the ABS sets to the PBT?

Offline Matias

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Re: [IC] - Matias 60% ALPS keyboard with Cherry-compatible PCB
« Reply #462 on: Wed, 26 April 2017, 09:24:12 »
Matias: Can you take a photo comparing the thickness of the ABS sets to the PBT?


Yes, see below...


166974-0


166976-1


Offline menuhin

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Re: [IC] - Matias 60% ALPS keyboard with Cherry-compatible PCB
« Reply #463 on: Wed, 26 April 2017, 11:53:32 »
Perhaps it's a little late, but I hope suggestions are still welcomed before mass production stage:

I hope there is a split backspace option, so that the 2u backspace key can become two 1u keys ('DIY' or factory), like in the HHKB and Sun Type 5c layout.
This is a major certain when I consider if I want to get a keyboard, and I believe many of the HHKB enthusiasts who are lurking checking out the Alps and Matias switches are feeling the same.
Wishlist: 1) hotswap gasket mount; 2) nice Alps blank caps; 3) Hipro Iris with adjustable tenting; 4) CNC POM case
More
Wishful-list: 1) All POM; 2) We order from keyboard-layout-editor.com; 3) Usable Trackpoint MK
IBM M13 black
IBM SpaceSaver II
IBM KPD8923 Trackpoint
Choc mini Gateron black
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[It's not I don't like ISO, but I need the HHKB backspace... only ~90WPM, in love with Emacs, and Lisp]

Offline Elrick

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Re: [IC] - Matias 60% ALPS keyboard with Cherry-compatible PCB
« Reply #464 on: Wed, 26 April 2017, 20:33:32 »

This project is definitely still on.  I'm in China now and it's one of the things we're working on this trip.  Latest update below...

The main thing that delayed this GB (which should have been finished long ago) was our commitment to including Black PBT caps with White legends.  That turned an otherwise straightward build into an odyssey that's still ongoing.  I'm happy to report that we've solved this problem -- as you can see in the photo below. These are our latest test samples.Black looks great but the white caps are lasering a little too black.  Ideally they would laser to grey.  We hope to have this fixed soon.

Good to see you are still working on this BUT why oh why, do you still persist with Lasering on PBT?

For Chryst Sakes, haven't you heard of Dye-sublimation at all?

You can still provide Lasering for the Black sets but use Dye-subs for the White sets and watch the orders flood in.  You've been here on Geekhack for years and no doubt you've seen the craze involving PBT key-caps with dye-subs sell out far quicker than than any lame laser key-cap sets.

PLEASE wake up and smell your coffee here, if you want to make a unique Matias Keyboard start using PBT dye subs and really make it a unique design millions would want to own around the globe.

If I hear another response about lasered key-caps being popular or most wanted here on Geekhack, I'll go Postal on all of you lot in an instant without remorse or any sympathy  >:D

No one should be using Lasered junk anymore because this is after all Geekhack Central, the home of discerning owners of key-caps and keyboards that deserve respect and not to be abused with such low brow tedium, known as Lasered Key-cap sets, which can be bought easily off Flebay for next to nothing.

Keep the mundane and boring out there on Flebay but please, bring the Quality and Unique here so that all of us can own something rare and distinctive.
« Last Edit: Wed, 26 April 2017, 20:38:37 by Elrick »

Offline digi

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Re: [IC] - Matias 60% ALPS keyboard with Cherry-compatible PCB
« Reply #465 on: Wed, 26 April 2017, 20:58:18 »
I hope this has lasering on PBT, that would be really cool ;)

Offline Delirious

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Re: [IC] - Matias 60% ALPS keyboard with Cherry-compatible PCB
« Reply #466 on: Wed, 26 April 2017, 22:46:13 »

This project is definitely still on.  I'm in China now and it's one of the things we're working on this trip.  Latest update below...

The main thing that delayed this GB (which should have been finished long ago) was our commitment to including Black PBT caps with White legends.  That turned an otherwise straightward build into an odyssey that's still ongoing.  I'm happy to report that we've solved this problem -- as you can see in the photo below. These are our latest test samples.Black looks great but the white caps are lasering a little too black.  Ideally they would laser to grey.  We hope to have this fixed soon.

Good to see you are still working on this BUT why oh why, do you still persist with Lasering on PBT?

For Chryst Sakes, haven't you heard of Dye-sublimation at all?

You can still provide Lasering for the Black sets but use Dye-subs for the White sets and watch the orders flood in.  You've been here on Geekhack for years and no doubt you've seen the craze involving PBT key-caps with dye-subs sell out far quicker than than any lame laser key-cap sets.

PLEASE wake up and smell your coffee here, if you want to make a unique Matias Keyboard start using PBT dye subs and really make it a unique design millions would want to own around the globe.

If I hear another response about lasered key-caps being popular or most wanted here on Geekhack, I'll go Postal on all of you lot in an instant without remorse or any sympathy  >:D

No one should be using Lasered junk anymore because this is after all Geekhack Central, the home of discerning owners of key-caps and keyboards that deserve respect and not to be abused with such low brow tedium, known as Lasered Key-cap sets, which can be bought easily off Flebay for next to nothing.

Keep the mundane and boring out there on Flebay but please, bring the Quality and Unique here so that all of us can own something rare and distinctive.

You realize this is Matias you're talking about right? If the track record still holds true, Edgar is relentless and unwavering about his vision. Community's inputs barely matter during the birth of a new project, he might come about and make minor changes during later stages; but all and all Edgar is absolute. We all just need to take a chill pill and embrace this project in 2018.

Offline dante

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Re: [IC] - Matias 60% ALPS keyboard with Cherry-compatible PCB
« Reply #467 on: Thu, 27 April 2017, 11:41:21 »
You realize this is Matias you're talking about right? If the track record still holds true, Edgar is relentless and unwavering about his vision. Community's inputs barely matter during the birth of a new project, he might come about and make minor changes during later stages; but all and all Edgar is absolute. We all just need to take a chill pill and embrace this project in 2018.

For the Black caps he could go with dyesub black on black in the style of Topre (and their MX imitators.)  He could also do side printed legends.

I know Matias has stated multiple times that a MX stem built into a Alps switch is impossible but I think he needs a fresh set of eyes on the problem.  If he can just get this solved all of these problems will go away.

Offline Elrick

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Re: [IC] - Matias 60% ALPS keyboard with Cherry-compatible PCB
« Reply #468 on: Thu, 27 April 2017, 19:14:34 »
For the Black caps he could go with dyesub black on black in the style of Topre (and their MX imitators.)  He could also do side printed legends.

EXACTLY, poor Edgar is living in the 1990's when lasering was all that was available, time for him to jump into the Doctor's Tardis and visit 2017, 2018 and see the requirement for Dye-sublimation which everyone wants these days.

Also don't forget that old keyboards are selling on Flebay for a minimum of $1000USD today all because they have PBT dye-subs applied to their key-caps (ancient Made in USA -ALPs-Dells).  Trust me, 60 years from now a Matias 60% keyboard will never achieve that worthy status UNLESS he applies dye-sublimation, then watch his creation climb over $1000+ easily.

Remember, don't use techniques in the past which were CHEAP and nasty, go for dye-sublimation and achieve unending distinction, forever more.......
« Last Edit: Thu, 27 April 2017, 22:41:56 by Elrick »

Offline Matias

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Re: [IC] - Matias 60% ALPS keyboard with Cherry-compatible PCB
« Reply #469 on: Thu, 08 June 2017, 20:02:01 »


I've received the balance bar samples I mentioned in one of my previous posts, and the results are good!

In the photos...

  • Backspace key is a Cherry keycap with Costar stabs + 2u balance bar for Cherry.

  • Return key is a Signature Plastics ALPS keycap with Costar stabs + (new) 2u balance bar for ALPS.

  • Funny symbols key is one of our 2.5u PBT caps with Costar stabs on an ALPS stab mount + (new) 2.5u balance bar for ALPS.

  • Shift key is an OEM ALPS keycap with Cherry stabs on an ALPS stab mount + (new) 2.75u balance bar for ALPS.

It's a little complicated but everything works.  :-)



170326-0



170328-1



170330-2



170332-3


Offline Elrick

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Re: [IC] - Matias 60% ALPS keyboard with Cherry-compatible PCB
« Reply #470 on: Mon, 12 June 2017, 19:30:05 »


  • Backspace key is a Cherry keycap with Costar stabs + 2u balance bar for Cherry.
  • Return key is a Signature Plastics ALPS keycap with Costar stabs + (new) 2u balance bar for ALPS.
  • Funny symbols key is one of our 2.5u PBT caps with Costar stabs on an ALPS stab mount + (new) 2.5u balance bar for ALPS.
  • Shift key is an OEM ALPS keycap with Cherry stabs on an ALPS stab mount + (new) 2.75u balance bar for ALPS.
It's a little complicated but everything works.  :-)

There you have it Edgar, go for SP's ALPs keys, get them to make special keys to fit your specific keyboard then offer it too the masses that appreciate true ALPs supremacy  8) .

Offline jnav

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Re: [IC] - Matias 60% ALPS keyboard with Cherry-compatible PCB
« Reply #471 on: Mon, 31 July 2017, 22:33:08 »
Hi Matias, any updates?  :D

Offline Meyvn

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[IC] - Matias 60% ALPS keyboard with Cherry-compatible PCB
« Reply #472 on: Thu, 03 August 2017, 09:56:05 »
Hi Matias, any updates?  :D

The ordering page's expected dates have been pushed back another ~6 months or so. No specific reason listed, but it sounds like there has been another major setback.

Offline Matias

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Re: [IC] - Matias 60% ALPS keyboard with Cherry-compatible PCB
« Reply #473 on: Fri, 11 August 2017, 12:32:34 »

I got back from China last week, and things are moving along...

Black PBT is officially signed off.  The keys feel REALLY nice to the touch.  We'll be ordering the PBT material before the end of the month.

We're colour matching White PBT now.  That will probably take another month or two.

Once White PBT is approved, we'll order that material and start doing samples in shades of Gray -- probably 2 shades of Gray to start.  This will allow Dolch-style set combinations.

I posted a (somewhat crappy [sorry]) photo of Gray samples in the Keycap thread...


I want to do some more testing of the new Balance bar & Stabilizer spacing, before finalizing that.

Let me know if there are any questions.  Thanks everyone...


Offline Meyvn

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Re: [IC] - Matias 60% ALPS keyboard with Cherry-compatible PCB
« Reply #474 on: Sun, 27 August 2017, 18:30:26 »
Are the PCBs, plates or cases still to be designed? Are they in production?


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Offline Meyvn

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Re: [IC] - Matias 60% ALPS keyboard with Cherry-compatible PCB
« Reply #475 on: Mon, 18 September 2017, 20:54:33 »
Itís been pushed back again, to *Fall* 2018 expected ship date, from Spring, which was ďend of 2017Ē not very long ago. Is there really no comment from Matias about this? No explanation at all?


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Offline zombimuncha

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Re: [IC] - Matias 60% ALPS keyboard with Cherry-compatible PCB
« Reply #476 on: Thu, 21 September 2017, 06:14:55 »

I got back from China last week, and things are moving along...

Black PBT is officially signed off.  The keys feel REALLY nice to the touch.  We'll be ordering the PBT material before the end of the month.

We're colour matching White PBT now.  That will probably take another month or two.

Once White PBT is approved, we'll order that material and start doing samples in shades of Gray -- probably 2 shades of Gray to start.  This will allow Dolch-style set combinations.

I posted a (somewhat crappy [sorry]) photo of Gray samples in the Keycap thread...


I want to do some more testing of the new Balance bar & Stabilizer spacing, before finalizing that.

Let me know if there are any questions.  Thanks everyone...

These balance bars - can I buy them? Now? Using "Armor Clip Anchors" as currency?

Offline euphxenos

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Re: [IC] - Matias 60% ALPS keyboard with Cherry-compatible PCB
« Reply #477 on: Wed, 03 January 2018, 18:48:21 »
It looks like the date posted on the Matias site changed again.  Now it says this (from https://matias.store/products/60-keyboard):

"...there is no specific end date in mind to finish engineering, let alone production. It will ship when design and production is completed. It could be a few months from now, or a couple of years from now."

Offline Matias

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Re: [IC] - Matias 60% ALPS keyboard with Cherry-compatible PCB
« Reply #478 on: Wed, 03 January 2018, 19:42:03 »
It looks like the date posted on the Matias site changed again.  Now it says this (from https://matias.store/products/60-keyboard):

"...there is no specific end date in mind to finish engineering, let alone production. It will ship when design and production is completed. It could be a few months from now, or a couple of years from now."



Sorry for the hyperbolic language -- I didn't write it.  It will be updated soon.

My previous comments on this project still stand.

I can also give you an update on the PBT keycaps component of the keyboard...

The Black PBT keycaps are in production now.  I expect to approve the White PBT samples next week. 

We will be doing shades of gray next -- to allow for Dolch sets.



Offline pixelpusher

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Re: [IC] - Matias 60% ALPS keyboard with Cherry-compatible PCB
« Reply #479 on: Wed, 03 January 2018, 20:32:13 »
It looks like the date posted on the Matias site changed again.  Now it says this (from https://matias.store/products/60-keyboard):

"...there is no specific end date in mind to finish engineering, let alone production. It will ship when design and production is completed. It could be a few months from now, or a couple of years from now."



Sorry for the hyperbolic language -- I didn't write it.  It will be updated soon.

My previous comments on this project still stand.

I can also give you an update on the PBT keycaps component of the keyboard...

The Black PBT keycaps are in production now.  I expect to approve the White PBT samples next week. 

We will be doing shades of gray next -- to allow for Dolch sets.

Looking forward to it. 

Offline jnav

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Re: [IC] - Matias 60% ALPS keyboard with Cherry-compatible PCB
« Reply #480 on: Fri, 05 January 2018, 21:42:17 »
It looks like the date posted on the Matias site changed again.  Now it says this (from https://matias.store/products/60-keyboard):

"...there is no specific end date in mind to finish engineering, let alone production. It will ship when design and production is completed. It could be a few months from now, or a couple of years from now."



Sorry for the hyperbolic language -- I didn't write it.  It will be updated soon.

My previous comments on this project still stand.

I can also give you an update on the PBT keycaps component of the keyboard...

The Black PBT keycaps are in production now.  I expect to approve the White PBT samples next week. 

We will be doing shades of gray next -- to allow for Dolch sets.

Looking forward to it.

Hooray!   :)

Offline euphxenos

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Re: [IC] - Matias 60% ALPS keyboard with Cherry-compatible PCB
« Reply #481 on: Sat, 03 March 2018, 00:44:35 »
It looks like the date posted on the Matias site changed again.  Now it says this (from https://matias.store/products/60-keyboard):

"...there is no specific end date in mind to finish engineering, let alone production. It will ship when design and production is completed. It could be a few months from now, or a couple of years from now."



Sorry for the hyperbolic language -- I didn't write it.  It will be updated soon.

My previous comments on this project still stand.

I can also give you an update on the PBT keycaps component of the keyboard...

The Black PBT keycaps are in production now.  I expect to approve the White PBT samples next week. 

We will be doing shades of gray next -- to allow for Dolch sets.

In the last update, black PBT keycaps were already in production.  How's that going?  Do you have any idea when we'll be able to buy them?  Can you share what the kits will look like?  I'm also curious about how things are going with the keyboard and other keycap colors, if you have any updates.

Offline Matias

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Re: [IC] - Matias 60% ALPS keyboard with Cherry-compatible PCB
« Reply #482 on: Wed, 14 March 2018, 19:00:45 »
In the last update, black PBT keycaps were already in production.  How's that going?  Do you have any idea when we'll be able to buy them?  Can you share what the kits will look like?  I'm also curious about how things are going with the keyboard and other keycap colors, if you have any updates.

Thanks for your questions...

I'm hoping to have the keyboard done by the end of the year.

Black PBT is in production now -- China is just ramping up again after Chinese New Year.  The factory received the PBT material prior to CNY, but weren't able to finish production before their holidays started.

We're still colour matching White PBT.  No schedule on that one until we get the colour right.

To support popular colour combinations, we plan to have each keyset composed of 2 subsets (which will be available separately):  a Main Set and a Mod Set...

The Main Set is dominated by alphanumerics, plus other keys that share the same colour.

The Mod Set includes all modifier keys, plus additional keys of the same colour.

There are also a few duplicate keys that appear in both sets, to satisfy varying tastes.  This approach offers quite a bit of flexibility.  For example, you could combine a Black Mod Set with a White Main Set, or get both Main and Mod Sets in Black for all Black keys, etc.

Some keys will have duplicates in multiple sizes (e.g., 1.25u and 1.5u for Ctrl, etc.).

A rough list (by row) is shown below...


Main Set

   F1-F4   F9-F12   NumLock   3 volume keys   F16-F18   Eject   4 pairing keys

   `~   1-0   -_   =+   Insert/Fn   Home   PgUp

   Q-P   [{   ]}   \|   Delete   End   PgDown   Num7-9

   A-L   ;:   '"   \| R2   Num4-6

   Z-M   ,<   .>   /?   1 Arrow key   Num1-3

   Spacebar   3 Arrow keys   NumZero   NumDot


Mod Set

   Esc   F5-F8   Print Screen/F13   Scroll Lock/F14   Pause/F15      Delete

   `~   Backspace   Insert   Home   PgUp   NumLock/Clear/Tab   =   /   *   -

   Tab   W   \|   Delete   End   PgDown   -

   2row-Enter   2row-Num+

   CapsLock   A   S   D   Return   +

   L-Shift   R-Shift   1 Arrow key   

   2row-NumEnter

   L-Ctrl   L-Win/Option   L-Alt/Command   Spacebar   R-Alt/Command   R-Win/Option   Menu/Fn   R-Ctrl   3 Arrow keys

Offline pixelpusher

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Re: [IC] - Matias 60% ALPS keyboard with Cherry-compatible PCB
« Reply #483 on: Wed, 14 March 2018, 21:49:52 »
Hmm, I donít see any non-standard key sizes there.  I was at least hoping for a split right shift accommodation which seems quite popular lately.   1.75u shift key and a 1u Fn or blank would be nice to see

Offline Luminair

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Re: [IC] - Matias 60% ALPS keyboard with Cherry-compatible PCB
« Reply #484 on: Thu, 15 March 2018, 16:13:47 »
This all sounds fantastic Matias, keep up the great work!

Offline menuhin

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Re: [IC] - Matias 60% ALPS keyboard with Cherry-compatible PCB
« Reply #485 on: Thu, 15 March 2018, 16:57:11 »
Although I am probably going to get a blank set first (which means I want a 1.75u shift), some proper HHKB-ish support will be very nice, e.g. 1u \| (number row), 1.5u Delete or Backspace (Tab row).
Will definitely get 2+ sets.
Wishlist: 1) hotswap gasket mount; 2) nice Alps blank caps; 3) Hipro Iris with adjustable tenting; 4) CNC POM case
More
Wishful-list: 1) All POM; 2) We order from keyboard-layout-editor.com; 3) Usable Trackpoint MK
IBM M13 black
IBM SpaceSaver II
IBM KPD8923 Trackpoint
Choc mini Gateron black
PLUM 84 'Topre-clone' 55g Korean dome
HHKB Pro 2 HasuBT
[It's not I don't like ISO, but I need the HHKB backspace... only ~90WPM, in love with Emacs, and Lisp]

Offline Matias

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Re: [IC] - Matias 60% ALPS keyboard with Cherry-compatible PCB
« Reply #486 on: Fri, 16 March 2018, 02:10:34 »
Thanks for the additional comments / questions...


Hmm, I donít see any non-standard key sizes there.  I was at least hoping for a split right shift accommodation which seems quite popular lately.   1.75u shift key and a 1u Fn or blank would be nice to see

It's just a rough list (without size details).  The actual sets will include all popular sizes.

We use 1.75u shift and 1u Fn on our own keyboards, so those would definitely be included.


Offline pixelpusher

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Re: [IC] - Matias 60% ALPS keyboard with Cherry-compatible PCB
« Reply #487 on: Fri, 16 March 2018, 08:24:55 »
Thanks for the additional comments / questions...


Hmm, I donít see any non-standard key sizes there.  I was at least hoping for a split right shift accommodation which seems quite popular lately.   1.75u shift key and a 1u Fn or blank would be nice to see

It's just a rough list (without size details).  The actual sets will include all popular sizes.

We use 1.75u shift and 1u Fn on our own keyboards, so those would definitely be included.

Good to hear.  Iím sitting on a decent pile of alps and Matias switches waiting for good keycap solutions. I a big fan of the newly tooled clicky as well as the tactile ones. 

Offline Blaise170

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Re: [IC] - Matias 60% ALPS keyboard with Cherry-compatible PCB
« Reply #488 on: Mon, 26 March 2018, 13:54:48 »
Will the PBT caps support your older models? I am currently using a Laptop Pro at work and would like to move to PBT.
I proxy anything including keyboards (キーボード / 鍵盤), from both Japan (日本) and China (中國). For more information, you may visit my dedicated webpage here: https://www.keyboards.es/proxying.html

View my current and past keyboards here: https://deskthority.net/wiki/User:Blaise170

Offline euphxenos

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Re: [IC] - Matias 60% ALPS keyboard with Cherry-compatible PCB
« Reply #489 on: Thu, 04 October 2018, 21:24:02 »
Edgar,

Has there been any progress on this at all this year?  There were a couple of posts earlier this year stating that the black keycaps had gone into production.  Did any actually get produced?  I still don't see PBT keycap sets listed on your web site.  Aside from the keycaps, has there been any progress at all on the keyboard this year?

Offline Matias

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Re: [IC] - Matias 60% ALPS keyboard with Cherry-compatible PCB
« Reply #490 on: Fri, 05 October 2018, 05:36:27 »
Will the PBT caps support your older models? I am currently using a Laptop Pro at work and would like to move to PBT.

Yes, all models will be supported, with the exception of the spacebar.  The Laptop Pro will be transitioning to a 5u spacebar.



Has there been any progress on this at all this year?  There were a couple of posts earlier this year stating that the black keycaps had gone into production.  Did any actually get produced?  I still don't see PBT keycap sets listed on your web site.  Aside from the keycaps, has there been any progress at all on the keyboard this year?

Yes, there's been quite a bit of progress on the keyboard and but few stalls on the keycaps...

The aluminum case and PCB are essentially done, after a few iterations during my last trip to China (a few months ago).  The keycap jig is also done.

Our injection vendor had some problems getting the PBT a consistent shade of black.  We had to coordinate with the material vendor to get it resolved.  I'm going again next month, to (hopefully) finalize things so keycap production can start.  I'm sorry this has gone on so long.  We developed a new process and basically hit every pothole on the road, before getting to the finished product.  I'm very happy with the final result, but wish it hadn't taken so long.

Let me know if you have any other questions...



Offline stbtrax

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Re: [IC] - Matias 60% ALPS keyboard with Cherry-compatible PCB
« Reply #491 on: Tue, 06 November 2018, 00:55:03 »
When are you hoping to do production ramp and what's the current estimate for shipping for new orders?
Thanks!

Offline equalunique

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Re: [IC] - Matias 60% ALPS keyboard with Cherry-compatible PCB
« Reply #492 on: Mon, 19 November 2018, 23:13:54 »
Will the PBT caps support your older models? I am currently using a Laptop Pro at work and would like to move to PBT.

Yes, all models will be supported, with the exception of the spacebar.  The Laptop Pro will be transitioning to a 5u spacebar.



Has there been any progress on this at all this year?  There were a couple of posts earlier this year stating that the black keycaps had gone into production.  Did any actually get produced?  I still don't see PBT keycap sets listed on your web site.  Aside from the keycaps, has there been any progress at all on the keyboard this year?

Yes, there's been quite a bit of progress on the keyboard and but few stalls on the keycaps...

The aluminum case and PCB are essentially done, after a few iterations during my last trip to China (a few months ago).  The keycap jig is also done.

Our injection vendor had some problems getting the PBT a consistent shade of black.  We had to coordinate with the material vendor to get it resolved.  I'm going again next month, to (hopefully) finalize things so keycap production can start.  I'm sorry this has gone on so long.  We developed a new process and basically hit every pothole on the road, before getting to the finished product.  I'm very happy with the final result, but wish it hadn't taken so long.

Let me know if you have any other questions...
Thank you for the update. Your switches are wonderful & i only wish it were easier to source keycaps for non-standard layouts (hhkb, ergo/ortho, etc.).

Sent from my LG-H918 using Tapatalk


Offline Matias

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Re: [IC] - Matias 60% ALPS keyboard with Cherry-compatible PCB
« Reply #493 on: Tue, 20 November 2018, 02:14:02 »
Has there been any progress on this at all this year?  There were a couple of posts earlier this year stating that the black keycaps had gone into production.  Did any actually get produced?  I still don't see PBT keycap sets listed on your web site.  Aside from the keycaps, has there been any progress at all on the keyboard this year?

Yes, there's been quite a bit of progress on the keyboard and but few stalls on the keycaps...

The aluminum case and PCB are essentially done, after a few iterations during my last trip to China (a few months ago).  The keycap jig is also done.

Our injection vendor had some problems getting the PBT a consistent shade of black.  We had to coordinate with the material vendor to get it resolved.  I'm going again next month, to (hopefully) finalize things so keycap production can start.  I'm sorry this has gone on so long.  We developed a new process and basically hit every pothole on the road, before getting to the finished product.  I'm very happy with the final result, but wish it hadn't taken so long.

Let me know if you have any other questions...


Thank you for the update. Your switches are wonderful & i only wish it were easier to source keycaps for non-standard layouts (hhkb, ergo/ortho, etc.).


Thank you.  We'll be supporting most (if not all) non-standard layouts with the new keysets.

I'm in China now (got here today) and hope to finalize the PBT production during this trip.  We developed a new process for lasering black PBT that produces very good results, with no noticeable wear over long time periods.  Whenever you have a new process, there area always lots of little details to work out, and production schedules can (do) easily slip, but it's very close to being finished.



When are you hoping to do production ramp and what's the current estimate for shipping for new orders?
Thanks!

Are you asking about the keyboard or the keycaps?


Offline pixelpusher

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Re: [IC] - Matias 60% ALPS keyboard with Cherry-compatible PCB
« Reply #494 on: Tue, 20 November 2018, 11:47:43 »
Has there been any progress on this at all this year?  There were a couple of posts earlier this year stating that the black keycaps had gone into production.  Did any actually get produced?  I still don't see PBT keycap sets listed on your web site.  Aside from the keycaps, has there been any progress at all on the keyboard this year?

Yes, there's been quite a bit of progress on the keyboard and but few stalls on the keycaps...

The aluminum case and PCB are essentially done, after a few iterations during my last trip to China (a few months ago).  The keycap jig is also done.

Our injection vendor had some problems getting the PBT a consistent shade of black.  We had to coordinate with the material vendor to get it resolved.  I'm going again next month, to (hopefully) finalize things so keycap production can start.  I'm sorry this has gone on so long.  We developed a new process and basically hit every pothole on the road, before getting to the finished product.  I'm very happy with the final result, but wish it hadn't taken so long.

Let me know if you have any other questions...


Thank you for the update. Your switches are wonderful & i only wish it were easier to source keycaps for non-standard layouts (hhkb, ergo/ortho, etc.).


Thank you.  We'll be supporting most (if not all) non-standard layouts with the new keysets.

I'm in China now (got here today) and hope to finalize the PBT production during this trip.  We developed a new process for lasering black PBT that produces very good results, with no noticeable wear over long time periods.  Whenever you have a new process, there area always lots of little details to work out, and production schedules can (do) easily slip, but it's very close to being finished.



When are you hoping to do production ramp and what's the current estimate for shipping for new orders?
Thanks!

Are you asking about the keyboard or the keycaps?

Thank you for the update.  A lot of us anxiously awaiting new alps compatible caps :)

Offline menuhin

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Re: [IC] - Matias 60% ALPS keyboard with Cherry-compatible PCB
« Reply #495 on: Tue, 20 November 2018, 14:02:12 »
When Matias said
Quote
...it's very close to being finished...
I know it's going to be only around 2 more years to go!

By the way, most of the hobbyists here are not so concerned about "durable" laser-printed PBT caps. Perhaps laser-etching on PBT can be nice too?
My concern is more of the quality control of PBT space bars - how would Matias solve the space warping problem?
Also, there are a lot more space bar sizes nowadays besides 6u, 6.25u, and 7u
Wishlist: 1) hotswap gasket mount; 2) nice Alps blank caps; 3) Hipro Iris with adjustable tenting; 4) CNC POM case
More
Wishful-list: 1) All POM; 2) We order from keyboard-layout-editor.com; 3) Usable Trackpoint MK
IBM M13 black
IBM SpaceSaver II
IBM KPD8923 Trackpoint
Choc mini Gateron black
PLUM 84 'Topre-clone' 55g Korean dome
HHKB Pro 2 HasuBT
[It's not I don't like ISO, but I need the HHKB backspace... only ~90WPM, in love with Emacs, and Lisp]

Offline stbtrax

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Re: [IC] - Matias 60% ALPS keyboard with Cherry-compatible PCB
« Reply #496 on: Tue, 27 November 2018, 00:30:03 »
When are you hoping to do production ramp and what's the current estimate for shipping for new orders?
Thanks!

Are you asking about the keyboard or the keycaps?



Mainly the keyboard, but do you have current estimates for either?
Thanks

Offline no, the other guy

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Re: [IC] - Matias 60% ALPS keyboard with Cherry-compatible PCB
« Reply #497 on: Sat, 22 December 2018, 13:55:38 »
I love how the website says

Quote
For the UK, German, or Nordic models, please order from our UK/Europe distributors "The Keyboard Company".

and "The Keyboard Company" only has the USA model for Matias Click.
<armin> i have the impression the only reason the mx red switch was invented was drunk people

       
Unicomp PC122               IBM Model F XT
(review)

Offline Hypersphere

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Re: [IC] - Matias 60% ALPS keyboard with Cherry-compatible PCB
« Reply #498 on: Sun, 23 December 2018, 14:52:56 »
Looking forward to seeing Matias blank PBT keycaps for Alps and Matias switches. I am much more interested in blanks than lettered caps, especially if the legends are laser-etched rather than doubleshot or, for light colors, dye-sublimated.

It would be nice if various colors (e.g., red, green, blue, light blue) were available in addition to black or white, although blank black caps would suffice for me.

Offline abrahamstechnology

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Re: [IC] - Matias 60% ALPS keyboard with Cherry-compatible PCB
« Reply #499 on: Sun, 06 January 2019, 16:11:30 »
This is taking a long time. I think you might as well have Tai-Hao make your keycaps. They even have tooling for doubleshot PBT.