New Standard Keyboards

[pmyshkin]

Has anyone seen this before? These are apparently the New Standard Keyboards:





I especially like how they have 2 capslock keys on either side of the tiny space key. That's not going to be annoying.

[bigpook]

Well, it doesn't look like it has a windows key so I guess thats a plus.

[pmyshkin]

Well, it doesn't look like it has a windows key so I guess thats a plus.

But there's a key labeled "Start Menu."

[msiegel]

clever how the left & right hands type left & right parentheses, etc.

[bigpook]

But there's a key labeled "Start Menu."

yeah, ok. So its a windows keyboard. How fitting.

Also, the layout is just too goofy. What about gaming? WASD is totally broken on this.

[IBI]

I have run across them before, but the marketing claims just stresses the alpha key layout. Looking more carefully I see that have actually gone further and added more characters and rearranged the modifier keys.

The extra characters I can understand, degrees is an obvious inclusion, as is yen. But where is the square root, why are the augmented latin characters only those used in spain and why on earth do we need a '...' key?

Also, the superscripted/subscripted numbers seem odd. Can anyone guess at the rationale behind that? Mathematicians and computer scientists who are likely to use sixth powers will just as often want to super/sub script letters as well so superscript and subscript buttons would have been a better idea there. Who else is likely to use high order powers?

[lal]

"Interesting"... but where the hell is Return?

[lam47]

between cap and num I think.

[ironcoder]

Fisher Price is going to have to sue for patent infringement on this one.

[CX23882]

This is interesting (layout-wise), and they have some clever ideas, but I think it would have a much better chance of succeeding if it went for the standard QWERTY layout rather than alphabetical.

[pmyshkin]

"Interesting"... but where the hell is Return?

I think it's the down arrow to the right of Z. Those right arrows between the caps and numlocks are spaces.

[IBI]

I think it's the down arrow to the right of Z. Those right arrows between the caps and numlocks are spaces.

I thought space was the one marked SpFn?

[chimera15]

yeah, ok. So its a windows keyboard. How fitting.

Also, the layout is just too goofy. What about gaming? WASD is totally broken on this.

Almost every game allows remapping.  Or you could always get a speedpad.

It's really interesting. I always thought keyboards should be layed out this way, especially when I started typing. The only concern I might have is for speed.  Supposedly qwerty, and especially dvorak are layed out for faster typing, the most used keys are in positions that are easily pressed.

 I don't see hitting A or I with my pinky or ring finger in that position in the upper and lower left constantly. lol

[bigpook]

Actually, I was kind of hoping webwit would comment on this. : )
I am thinking it would compliment his data hand setup, *cough*

[pmyshkin]

Supposedly qwerty, and especially dvorak are layed out for faster typing, the most used keys are in positions that are easily pressed.

I think most of the consideration that went into qwerty was mechanical efficacy for typewriters.

I don't see hitting A or I with my pinky or ring finger in that position in the upper and lower left constantly. lol

It's really a terrible layout, I don't know what they were thinking.

[ironcoder]

Yeah but we're too damn old to change now

[ironcoder]

It's a fair question. As in most things in life, what gets accepted and becomes a standard is usually based not on what's best, but other criteria. This is probably another example, and one that most people don't even question. "That's just the way it is."

[lowpoly]

It would be easier to re-sort the alphabet.

[pmyshkin]

Luckily, with the amazing technology of modern computers, you can use whatever layout you want in the comfort of your own home!

[vils]

It's a fair question. As in most things in life, what gets accepted and becomes a standard is usually based not on what's best, but other criteria. This is probably another example, and one that most people don't even question. "That's just the way it is."

And now I intended to say something funny about the fact that the only 3 countries that haven't officially adopted the metric system are: Liberia, Burma and the U.S.
:dizzy:

[watduzhkstand4]

Well, it doesn't look like it has a windows key so I guess thats a plus.

what's wrong with the windows key? lol. It seems like many people don't like it on the Model Ms.

[itlnstln]

I can take or leave a Windows key. The only time I find it useful is when I lock my PC at work (Win+L).  The "I hate Windows" keys seems to come from the Old-School crowd and the non-Windows users.  I would be part of the Old-School crowd that just never really found the use of having them there.

[itlnstln]

Both my Filco and Realforce have the ugly dome version but I've learned to ignore it.

I kinda like the dome version. It's easier to feel when you're about to mistype. OTOH, I never accidently press the Win key, either. It's not in a very convenient place.
 

P.S. You TEXANS should be defending our NATIONAL system of measure. Blood has been spilled for our freedom to measure in 1/64ths - or .015625". What's so hard about that??

Our public schools never taught us how to measure.  Many of the people here working construction and other jobs that require a lot of measuring come from countries that use the metric system. I just use whatever gives me a more precise measurement at the time.

[lal]

what's wrong with the windows key? lol. It seems like many people don't like it on the Model Ms.

Imagine car wheels were *only* available with a conspicuous Honda logo on them.  Stupid analogy but it's something like that.

[lal]

And then add that there are many people that *hate* Microsoft, but I don't know what car brand you'd consider particularly bad or even evil.

[itlnstln]

LOL - I have a Honda Odyssey but I know what you are saying.

You're a man with a minivan.  That's OK, I drive a "Creme Brulee" Ford Edge.  The Soccer-Mom mobile.  What's even funnier is that I don't have any kids.  Hell, I'm not even married.  I love it, though.  It hauls around all my Disc Golf equipment and makes a great place to stay during 2-day tournaments.

[o2dazone]

I think it's more about seething hatred for Microsoft than it is about logos. I mean... no one seems to mind IBM logos (hell, we even distinguish rarity based on the color).

I think what's on our keyboards gets shifted into ultra picky mode when it can interfere with the layout. A lot of boards also have been around before a keyboard even had a "windows" key, so it could be the purists in all of us.

Honestly speaking, I use it for numerous features, (Run, Lock, Search, Win+pause/brk for easy access to "System"). On top of that, I try to use my mouse as little as possible. Something like Windows and then down arrow opens up my web browser.

It's a shame how it steals focus though...I think a big draw back and a lot of hatred comes from gamers. Easily avoidable with something like AHK or KeyTweak but still, a very sh*tty button in terms of it minimizing a full screen game and stealing focus.


As for the OP, I don't really think "Alphabetical" is the best way to have access to most commonly used keys. If you take popular fast layouts like Dvorak and Colemak, they put commonly used letters right where your fingers should be resting. Which makes more sense to me. Also did they brand the name of it "New Standard Keyboard" in hopes that that would catch on? "Well it's called new standard...it must be the new standard".

[pmyshkin]

Linux users probably use the Windows key more than Windows users. At least I do: it's the modifier for all my window managing commands. But they really could have labeled it with a more brand neutral symbol. How did MS get all major manufacturers to make keyboards with their logo on it anyway?

[Hak Foo]

I don't understand why they couldn't find a better place for it than down where it can be stuck by accident.

If it was put up in the top right (above the numpad), nobody would beef.  You also wouldn't need two.

[vils]

And now I intended to say something funny about the fact that the only 3 countries that haven't officially adopted the metric system are: Liberia, Burma and the U.S.
:dizzy:

American Choppers and the metric system

[mike]

There's an argument that the US actually went metric in 1893; they just chose damn funny multipliers.

What happened in 1893? The US chose to standardise their "customary units" using the meter and the kilogram as the base rather than the customary practice of defining the foot as the length of a particular bar of metal.

[wellington1869]

There's an argument that the US actually went metric in 1893; they just chose damn funny multipliers.

What happened in 1893? The US chose to standardise their "customary units" using the meter and the kilogram as the base rather than the customary practice of defining the foot as the length of a particular bar of metal.

thats actually interesting, i didnt know that.  I guess it amounts to the same thing tho since the meter is a bar of metal somewhere in france kept in a cooler.

[mike]

thats actually interesting, i didnt know that.  I guess it amounts to the same thing tho since the meter is a bar of metal somewhere in france kept in a cooler.

It's mostly useful as a way of annoying old unit bigots

And a metre is actually defined as how far light travels in a vacuum in some fraction of a second. The original intention of the metric system was that a 'prototype' of a unit could be independently produced in any reasonable laboratory.

[Phaedrus2129]

That layout makes me want to smash the keyboard to bits with my Model M.

[gr1m]

ExtremeTech likes it.  That's usually a bad sign.

ExtremeTech used to give every product a 4 or 5/10 and I used to somewhat listen to them until about 3 years ago when they changed layout and subsequently started the typical "I'm raving about this product to get more free stuff" reviews.

[audioave10]

My old brain could never handle such a layout.

[sam113101]

it's not because you're using the win keys that they are useful, the shortcuts you're using could be replaced with a alt+shift+whatever shortcut, that would do the same, but with less keys

also, it splits the shortcuts in two categories, those that have something to do with the OS, those that have nothing to do with it (it only applies to windows)

[Mental Hobbit]

American Choppers and the metric system

OMFG. Laughed myself to tears watching that.

[wellington1869]

It's mostly useful as a way of annoying old unit bigots

And a metre is actually defined as how far light travels in a vacuum in some fraction of a second. The original intention of the metric system was that a 'prototype' of a unit could be independently produced in any reasonable laboratory.

Maybe I'm thinking of weights. Theres bars of something in coolers in France.

[wellington1869]

there's beer in coolers in bars in france

[HaaTa]

there's beer in coolers in bars in france

I'd hope so...

[bpiphany]

Maybe I'm thinking of weights. Theres bars of something in coolers in France.

Actually there is a platinum meter bar somewhere in france. The meter used to be defined as some part of the distance from the equator to the north pole or something, I think they screwed that up though... It has since been redefined in terms of how far light travels in a certain amount of time. The second is defined from some frequenzy of a transition in a cesium (i think) atom.

The physics of mass is still poorly understood and they are trying to figure out the best way to define it in a universal way. The kilogram prototype is still a platinum-iridium (common jewelry platinum alloy) chunk. They are also considering a new name since they messily picked a modified unit ("kilo"-gram) as the standard =P

Or just check them out at wikipedia and see how confused I was writing that =)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kilogram
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meter
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second

[keyboardlover]

Wow a thread where Welly actually talked about keyboards...
Necroooooo!

[bpiphany]

In America we measure mass using Walmart shoppers.

Welcome to Geekhack!

Thanks =) I've only just taken the first steps down what is apparently a long and winding path. Bought myself a HHKB recently and have a Majestouch on the way...

[bpiphany]

While waiting study up on DIP Switch settings.  I swear we need a wiki on those.

I'm actually typing on the HHKB right now. Have had it for a week or so. I flicked switch 3 and 5, tried to map the <>-buttons to Super and Menu with little success. Then I set the board to Mac-mode and the problem sort of solved itself... I never really use them though =P Perhaps what I really should do is to change the left one into a Fn-key. It is sort of awkward to use the arrow buttons with the same-hand-pinky on the right Fn.

What I have spent some time digging into is xkb maps. With the swedish vowels å, ä, ö, three extra keys are occupied in the main typing area. This pushes other useful characters into remote areas, the apostrophe for example, the pipe is lost altogether since it is originally placed on the extra key by the left shift. The use of a AltGr key is also a necessity to fit everything.

I think I will stick to the swedish qwerty layout for the letters and digits and come up with my own mapping for the rest of the symbols, placing them in a more logical way. I mostly do some coding and Latex when I'm actually writing stuff.

I saw there was a thread about remapping the HHKB. Perhaps this would have been more at home there =) I haven't started reading it, yet...