Best keyboard to use with a Macbook Pro?

[bronwyn]

Last fall I bought a beautiful shiny Macbook Pro. This forced me to hand down my 1988 IBM model M to my fiance, because I now need a USB keyboard with Windows keys or a Mac layout. So I'm looking for advice on what keyboard to buy.

• I want a board with the key layout I'm used to (example), and I haven't seen any Mac boards with the One True Layout except perhaps the really old Apple boards.
  
• My desk is small, so I would like a board that isn't too big, and I could easily ditch the numpad. Just as long as doing so didn't mess with the main text entry or arrow/cursor movements block. Yes, I AM very interested in a Filco tenkeyless...
• I'm too heavy a typist for the laptop keyboard's longterm health, so I'd like to retrain myself to a lighter touch. This makes me interested in brown Cherry switches.
• I really don't want any touchpads, trackballs, or pointing sticks. I have a very good trackpad and mouse already.

To complicate things, I live in Ottawa, Canada. Is there a cheap and easy way for Canadians to test out the brown Cherries, or am I going to have to spring for the Filco to find out?

Others on my shortlist are the Unicomp Spacesaver and the Cherry G80-3000. The Unicomp is just kind of ugly. The G80-3000 is mostly available with the blue Cherry switches. Their sound was a little too high-pitched for comfort in the recording I listened to.

Mac-specific question: I'll want to swap the Windows and Alt keys to match the Mac layout, to reinforce my new muscle memories. Any Mac users out there know what will happen when I switch back and forth between the external and built-in boards? Will it remap only the external board, or both, or what? I don't own any USB keyboards to test with.

Thanks all!

[wheel83]

Get a ps2 to USB adapter and use take your Model M back!  If you want to save space, get a real space saving keyboard!

[patrickgeekhack]

Welcome to Geekhack!

I'm not a Mac guy so I can't help you there.

I'm sure some people will chime in about the Compaq Brown Cherry board as a test board but I don't think it fits at all with that shiny new Mac. I can't think of any less than $100 other brown cherry options commonly available in Canada.

I'd recommend just going for it - try the Filco.  If you don't like it you can resell it.

BIG jump from a Model M to the Brown Cherries - it'll  take a while to retrain your fingers but many have.

Show Image

Another Canadian to whom you can send your jokes :lalala:

[patrickgeekhack]

Last fall I bought a beautiful shiny Macbook Pro. This forced me to hand down my 1988 IBM model M to my fiance, because I now need a USB keyboard with Windows keys or a Mac layout. So I'm looking for advice on what keyboard to buy.

• I want a board with the key layout I'm used to (example), and I haven't seen any Mac boards with the One True Layout except perhaps the really old Apple boards.
  
• My desk is small, so I would like a board that isn't too big, and I could easily ditch the numpad. Just as long as doing so didn't mess with the main text entry or arrow/cursor movements block. Yes, I AM very interested in a Filco tenkeyless...
• I'm too heavy a typist for the laptop keyboard's longterm health, so I'd like to retrain myself to a lighter touch. This makes me interested in brown Cherry switches.
• I really don't want any touchpads, trackballs, or pointing sticks. I have a very good trackpad and mouse already.

To complicate things, I live in Ottawa, Canada. Is there a cheap and easy way for Canadians to test out the brown Cherries, or am I going to have to spring for the Filco to find out?

Others on my shortlist are the Unicomp Spacesaver and the Cherry G80-3000. The Unicomp is just kind of ugly. The G80-3000 is mostly available with the blue Cherry switches. Their sound was a little too high-pitched for comfort in the recording I listened to.

Mac-specific question: I'll want to swap the Windows and Alt keys to match the Mac layout, to reinforce my new muscle memories. Any Mac users out there know what will happen when I switch back and forth between the external and built-in boards? Will it remap only the external board, or both, or what? I don't own any USB keyboards to test with.

Thanks all!

Hellow fellow Canadian, welcome to geekhack.

One thing I've noticed is that the recordings are usually not exact copies of what the keyboards actually sound like when typing on them. You can get a brown Cherry G80-3000 from Datacal, but their shipping cost is very high compared to say Geminicomputers.com. But the latter only sells the ones equipped with Blue Cherries. So, if you want a keyboard with Cherry Brown specifically, and want a new one, you're cheapest option is a Filco for now.

Keep in mind that different keyboards will sound differently even though they are all equipped with Blue Cherries. I don't have a Das III, but I doubt it produces the same sound as the G80-3000 (Das II)

Eventually, you'll learn how to use less force with a Cherry keyboard.

Regarding your Mac-specific question, you have the option to swap the keys on the external keyboard only or on both the built-in and the external keyboards. That's what I did. However, if you want to use the Option key to boot you Mac (if you want to boot from a clone external hdd for example), you'll have to press the actual ALT key on the external keyboard. The swapping is done by OS X, and will only work once OS X is loaded.

If you really want a Cherry Brown keyboard, get one. Don't buy a Cherry Blue keyboard because you'll always wonder what Cherry Brown would be like.

[ch_123]

A Happy Hacking keyboard could be a good idea considering that they have all the appropriate Mac buttons, and are small enough to be used in place of a built-in laptop keyboard. They also (supposedly, never used one) have quite a light keystroke. Of course, that's if you are prepared to spend about $250 on a keyboard.

[IBI]

A Happy Hacking keyboard could be a good idea considering that they have all the appropriate Mac buttons, and are small enough to be used in place of a built-in laptop keyboard. They also (supposedly, never used one) have quite a light keystroke. Of course, that's if you are prepared to spend about $250 on a keyboard.

He wants an IBM-Spacesaver layout or bigger, so that rules out the HHKB and SMK-88.

EDIT: A realforce 86U/87U would be a possibility though.

Also, what about a Filco Tenkeyless with Fake Black Alps? That way you can get the layout you're looking for and still retain heavy keyswitches, although they do feel quite different to the buckling springs.

[bronwyn]

Get a ps2 to USB adapter and use take your Model M back!  If you want to save space, get a real space saving keyboard!

I thought about that, but now that I have switched to Mac, I actually need the Windows keys that board doesn't have! I use just enough Windows programs through Parallels to need all three modifier keys.

[bronwyn]

Since I'm SURE you have a stuffed beaver lying around (don't all Canadians) here are the mod instructions.

No extra stuffed beavers, but I do have this:



It's a nice solid Antec case that I painted myself. I might use it again when I build us a file server, or I might buy a smaller case.  If someone falls in love with it and wants to give it a home, let me know.

[bronwyn]

It sounds like I should keep an eye on Ebay/the classifieds for a week or two in case a dirt-cheap Compaq 11800 comes up as a tester, but after that just spring for the Filco tenkeyless.

Besides, I expect to like it.

[eeperson]

The Mac setting to switch the 'alt' and 'window' keys affects both the built in keyboard and the attached keyboard.  Also, there is a bug in OSX where if you switch the keys with a keyboard plugged in and then unplug the keyboard and switch the keys back, the keys won't actually switch back.  You have to have the keyboard plugged in order to switch back.  I've gotten used to both locations for the 'cmd' key, but you might find it more of a hassle.

[patrickgeekhack]

The Mac setting to switch the 'alt' and 'window' keys affects both the built in keyboard and the attached keyboard.  Also, there is a bug in OSX where if you switch the keys with a keyboard plugged in and then unplug the keyboard and switch the keys back, the keys won't actually switch back.  You have to have the keyboard plugged in order to switch back.  I've gotten used to both locations for the 'cmd' key, but you might find it more of a hassle.

Not exactly true. If choose to apply the settings to all my keyboards, then the keys are swapped on the external keyboard and the built-in on. But, if I choose to swap only on the external keyboard, it works fine. However, like you pointed out, the keyboard must be plugged in before doing the swap.

[bronwyn]

Not exactly true. If choose to apply the settings to all my keyboards, then the keys are swapped on the external keyboard and the built-in on. But, if I choose to swap only on the external keyboard, it works fine. However, like you pointed out, the keyboard must be plugged in before doing the swap.

Right, this sounds like I should borrow a USB board for a little testing before spending exorbitant amounts of money. ($144 + exchange + duty + taxes is a lot compared to the $5 for the IBM.)

[eeperson]

Not exactly true. If choose to apply the settings to all my keyboards, then the keys are swapped on the external keyboard and the built-in on. But, if I choose to swap only on the external keyboard, it works fine. However, like you pointed out, the keyboard must be plugged in before doing the swap.

Is there a setting that lets you determine if the key swap is applied to both keyboards or just the external one?  I have never seen a setting for that, but I would be very interested if there is one.

[patrickgeekhack]

Is there a setting that lets you determine if the key swap is applied to both keyboards or just the external one?  I have never seen a setting for that, but I would be very interested if there is one.

I don't have my Mac with me right now, but I think in the window where you are applying the changes, you can choose in the drop down list if you want the changes to be applied to all keyboards or one in particular. In the case of the external keyboard, you'll see "USB Keyboard" if I remember correctly.

[watduzhkstand4]

I would say to go with the Compaq MX 11800 Brown Cherry.
That keyboard looks like it's a whole lot but it's lighter and smaller than you think.