Unsure what I want

[Stiggy]

After many years of putting up with cheap keyboards I'm considering treating myself to something decent. I almost certainly want cherry switches of some sort, but am unsure which colour.

My previous favourite keyboard was a now unknown cherry model, which unfortunately didn't survive a rather nasty encounter with a can of guinness. I'm unsure of whether it would even have used any of the current switches - it was purchased at the same time as my 386 (1991?). My (faded) recolection was that is was definately reasonably tactile, but less 'clunky' and noisy than the model Ms connected to the PS/2s I was also using at the time - but can't remember if it was completely click free or if it was just different to the model M.

Feature wise all I want is a wired keyboard with a standard UK layout with Windows keys and no multimedia buttons. A couple of USB ports might be nice, but not essential. A slight bonus would be old-school indicator lights in the lock keys instead of the top-right, but again far from essential.

Ideally I'd go to a shop a try a few keyboards, but can't find selling proper ones, only mass market membrame junk festooned with multimedia buttons. Recommendations for shops in or near Birmingham (the one in England!) appreciated.

[Stiggy]

I forgot something. Whatever I get definatley needs to have legs to tilt it too.

[wheel83]

I would suggest a Unicomp Space Saver.

[ch_123]

If noise is an issue, a Cherry G80-3000 with Brown switches is a good option. I know there are a few companies in the UK that sell them. Another option is a Dell AT102W, which uses Black alps, which may be a better choice if you want something with strong tactile feedback. These are somewhat noisy though, but nowhere near as bad as an IBM. Ebay is the best place to get those, as they are long since out of production, however, new in box ones are easy enough to find.

[IBI]

My previous favourite keyboard was a now unknown cherry model, which unfortunately didn't survive a rather nasty encounter with a can of guinness. I'm unsure of whether it would even have used any of the current switches - it was purchased at the same time as my 386 (1991?). My (faded) recolection was that is was definately reasonably tactile, but less 'clunky' and noisy than the model Ms connected to the PS/2s I was also using at the time - but can't remember if it was completely click free or if it was just different to the model M.

You'd have to ask sandy for the exact dates, but I'm fairly sure the current cherry switch design was introduced before 1991. Was it the G81/G80-1000? (pictures here and here).

You don't happen to have the receipts for the PC? Remember back then they used to list out all the components of the PC so that might give you a clue to which model it was.

Feature wise all I want is a wired keyboard with a standard UK layout with Windows keys and no multimedia buttons. A couple of USB ports might be nice, but not essential. A slight bonus would be old-school indicator lights in the lock keys instead of the top-right, but again far from essential.

There's a list of mechanical keyboards here, there's only three or four standard layout ones (depending on if you count the 'left handed' one) currently being produced and one of them is the buckling spring keyboard which from your description above I gather you're not keen on.

They're pretty durable though, so a second hand keyboard will serve you just as well as a new one - provided you don't mind cleaning it up first and trying to find one.

Ideally I'd go to a shop a try a few keyboards, but can't find selling proper ones, only mass market membrame junk festooned with multimedia buttons. Recommendations for shops in or near Birmingham (the one in England!) appreciated.

I'd settle for knowing of a good computer shop anywhere in the country, I've had the same problem with keyboards and monitors.

and watch the video.  If the clicks bother you then it'll be pretty easy to narrow down the Cherry switches.

Assuming it was a mechanical keyboard, it may have been one of cherry's high quality rubber dome keyboards - does anyone know what other keyboards cherry were making back in the early 90s?.

If it was a rubber dome keyboard then you'll probably be limited to a direct replacement of the same series unless anyone can suggest comparable keyboards as I don't think there's anywhere listing which keyboards use the same rubber domes.

EDIT: I missed ch_123 post but he did remind me of a good point - there aren't any UK layout G80s with brown MX switches but they are availible in german layout which is the same physically (unlike US layout) but has different markings. Is that an option for you, or do you need UK markings as well as a physical UK layout.

[Stiggy]

Welcome to Geekhack!



LOL - had to laugh.  Was NOT a lovely day for a Guinness.

Take a look at this overview:

http://hothardware.com/cs/blogs/mrtg/archive/2009/03/08/mechanical-key-switch-keyboards-demystified.aspx

and watch the video.  If the clicks bother you then it'll be pretty easy to narrow down the Cherry switches.

Report back with your thoughts.

Thats useful. I've come across many videos from different people, but unless they're all done together like here its impossible to make comparisons due to differences in recording level.

Assuming the model M clone is truely comparable to what I remember then either of the blue/brown cherries sounds fine to me.

[Stiggy]

You'd have to ask sandy for the exact dates, but I'm fairly sure the current cherry switch design was introduced before 1991. Was it the G81/G80-1000? (pictures here and here).

You don't happen to have the receipts for the PC? Remember back then they used to list out all the components of the PC so that might give you a clue to which model it was.

I think the receipt is unlikely to exist, even if it does it wouldn't be easy to get hold of - the PC in question was a Christmas present.

There's a list of mechanical keyboards here, there's only three or four standard layout ones (depending on if you count the 'left handed' one) currently being produced and one of them is the buckling spring keyboard which from your description above I gather you're not keen on.

They're pretty durable though, so a second hand keyboard will serve you just as well as a new one - provided you don't mind cleaning it up first and trying to find one.

It wasn't that I disliked the model M as such, just that I prefered the cherry one. A model M or near clone is a possible if only because I'd know what I was getting.

Assuming it was a mechanical keyboard, it may have been one of cherry's high quality rubber dome keyboards - does anyone know what other keyboards cherry were making back in the early 90s?.

If it was a rubber dome keyboard then you'll probably be limited to a direct replacement of the same series unless anyone can suggest comparable keyboards as I don't think there's anywhere listing which keyboards use the same rubber domes.

Hmm, I couldn't say for certain that it was mechanical - its been too long. I guess length of time means an exact replacement isn't critcal - I've just been prompted to get something decent in rebellion at the decreasing standard of most keyboards (and don't even start me on some of the messed up arrangements of some of the keys at the right).

EDIT: I missed ch_123 post but he did remind me of a good point - there aren't any UK layout G80s with brown MX switches but they are availible in german layout which is the same physically (unlike US layout) but has different markings. Is that an option for you, or do you need UK markings as well as a physical UK layout.

I think German markings would annoy me. I can type without looking at the keyboard provided I don't think about it (it goes wrong then), but do glance at it for the symbols I don't use very often.

[IBI]

I think German markings would annoy me. I can type without looking at the keyboard provided I don't think about it (it goes wrong then), but do glance at it for the symbols I don't use very often.

Fair enough, if you decide you want to try browns then you could always pull the keys off another G80 (possibly a G81 as well, there have been mixed reports as to whether they're compatible), probably an old second hand one (ebay) and replace the german ones.

[cchan]

Fair enough, if you decide you want to try browns then you could always pull the keys off another G80 (possibly a G81 as well, there have been mixed reports as to whether they're compatible), probably an old second hand one (ebay) and replace the german ones.

My G80-3000LSCRC-2 has double molded black keycaps on it that were pulled off a dead G81-8000HRBUS-2 if memory serves. They all fit except the bottom row of Ctrl/Win/Alt/Space/Alt/Win/Menu/Ctrl. However, the long keys on my white G81-8000 do not have the same stabilising mechanism as the G80 keys and thus would not work.

[JohnS1111]

I hope I can chime in here - I guess everybody has the same question, I am unsure as well...

I currently use a cheap DELL keyboard at work - which is kind of fine - but I do want a higher quality keyboard at home which should work for a lot of typing (C++ and C#) and some gaming once in a while. So it needs to have an absolute standard layout, I noticed that even slight changes really annoy me.

I investigated a lot and bought a used DELL AT101W a while back unfortunatly the backspace key and the '8' does not work. The keyboard does not fell that well either when typing.
Now I am considering an Unicomp Spacesaver or an ABS M1... I like the idea of the old style keyboard with click like my old Cherry Click keyboard or the one that I had on my IBM PC10, but my concern is that a buckling spring keyboard is not useful for gaming at all...

[wheel83]

i wouldnt recommend a unicomp for gaming. its a little loud and tough on the fingers.  but for typing its great.

[itlnstln]

I might even suggest this: http://www.geminicomputersinc.com/g80-3000lscrc-2.html.  It has blue Cherry switches, and they are lighter than buckling springs.  They will click, but it shouldn't be too prohibitive for gaming.  This keyboard has both English and Chinese legends, but the layout is standard.

[IBI]

I investigated a lot and bought a used DELL AT101W a while back unfortunatly the backspace key and the '8' does not work. The keyboard does not fell that well either when typing.
Now I am considering an Unicomp Spacesaver or an ABS M1... I like the idea of the old style keyboard with click like my old Cherry Click keyboard or the one that I had on my IBM PC10, but my concern is that a buckling spring keyboard is not useful for gaming at all...

How long did you use the AT101W for? It can take a month or so to get used to a new type of keyswitch so if you only had a quick play with it because of the broken keys I suggest you remap the backspace to something else (e.g. caps lock) using sharpkeys and give it a good trial.

The ABS M1 uses a newer version of the switches in the AT101W so if you don't like that then the M1 might not be for you either.

You also need to mention which country you're in as different keyboards are availible and different layouts are standard. This thread is about someone looking for a good keyboard in Britain, so that what I assumed initially but as you bought an AT101W and are considering an ABS M1 I assume you're the US or Canada, or somewhere else that uses the same layout and you're willing to import.

EDIT:
Stiggy: Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be much in the way of high-end keyboards availible here at the moment. As you didn't want a german keyboard because of the symbols I guess the Das Keyboard is out too, and the 'left-handed' keyboard is out if you want an absolutely standard layout, which really just leaves the G80-3000, a Unicomp and the AT102W

The G80-3000 is apparently well enough built for it's use and isn't likely to break down, but doesn't feel solid. I can confirm this with my experiences of the G80-1800. I don't know if that's an issue for you.

I can't speak for the build quality of the unicomps, but it looks like the price for a customiser is around £85 now with shipping and customs so it's a fair bit more than the G80.

The Dell AT102W is well built, but you will have to either wait a couple of months for one to come up on ebay or go hunting round the local second hand/charity shops to see if you can find one.

There are several keyboards using Linear Cherry MX switches, but they're not terribly popular and none of them have entirely standard layouts.

[JohnS1111]

Gotta give us a little more to work with here.  Did you try the Dell for gaming?  What Cherry Click keyboard and likes/dislikes? Not feeling well when typing is a pretty vague description.

Sorry for being imprecise... the DELL seems to be sluggish somehow, for some reason I have the feeling that the keys don't come back up fast enough - it might just be this particular keyboard as some of the keys do not work it is problably messed up completely and I do not have another one to compare with.
I cannot recall the type of Cherry keyboard I had, I just remember that it was much larger than the DELL AT101W. There were like 2 inches of plastic above the F-keys and it made a very audible metallic click completely different than the DELL. As I think about it... did Cherry ever made buckling spring keyboards, because from the sound it might have been one.

How long did you use the AT101W for?
..
You also need to mention which country you're in as different keyboards are availible and different layouts are standard. This thread is about someone looking for a good keyboard in Britain, so that what I assumed initially but as you bought an AT101W and are considering an ABS M1 I assume you're the US or Canada, or somewhere else that uses the same layout and you're willing to import.

A few hours as some keys did not work properly it wasn't really an option to try it longer.
And I am German - so English is not my native language as is probably clear by now due to a couple of mistakes in the posts - but I am in the US now and need a keyboard with a US layout.


Probably I should just by a Unicomp for typing and some junk keyboard for the casual gaming if the Unicomp does not work out...

[JohnS1111]

I tend to game with a Nostromo N52 (full N-key) and use a keyboard for typing.  Use the right tool for the job is my philosophy.  

A good philosphy, I have to keep remembering that... I already knew the saying "If you got a hammer every problem seems to look like a nail"

Welcome to the US.  Your English is much better than my German!!  Sprechen sie Deutsch nur ein bischen.  Or something like that... :embarassed:

Well, I am already here (Orange County, CA) for a few years and my English should be better - I think my access is already better than the one of our governor, though...

[itlnstln]

I tend to game with a Nostromo N52 (full N-key) and use a keyboard for typing. Use the right tool for the job is my philosophy.

QFT.
 
I like how vBulletin automatically changes "full sentences" to lower case if they are all caps.  My QFTs all come out like "qft."

[IBI]

Sorry for being imprecise... the DELL seems to be sluggish somehow, for some reason I have the feeling that the keys don't come back up fast enough - it might just be this particular keyboard as some of the keys do not work it is problably messed up completely and I do not have another one to compare with.
I cannot recall the type of Cherry keyboard I had, I just remember that it was much larger than the DELL AT101W. There were like 2 inches of plastic above the F-keys and it made a very audible metallic click completely different than the DELL. As I think about it... did Cherry ever made buckling spring keyboards, because from the sound it might have been one.

Was the cherry using this case: http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?t=5757?

[JohnS1111]

Was the cherry using this case: http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?t=5757
?

It is really hard to tell - too long ago - but it was a German keyboard and I got it when I "upgraded" from an IBM PC XT to a 286 (don't remember the brand), so it was about 20 years ago. The keyboard served my well into the times of the Pentium III with an adapter from AT connector to PS2.

Well, I will see how my Unicomp will do, I hope the feel brings back good memories.

[Stiggy]

After getting distracted for ages (moving house and stuff) I finally got myself a G80-3000 with blue switches. Different feel than my last cherry, but I like it.

The problem now is my rubber dome dell at work feels awful. Now deciding between bringing the G80 in and seeing if annoys people before ordering a second one or experimenting with the AT102W I've spotting attached to a mostly unused machine.

[keyb_gr]

Not sure whether the AT102W wouldn't be even noisier. When bottoming out (hard to avoid with black Alps), these go CLACK-CLACK-CLACK, and I would consider that sort of sound even more critical (less easily absorbed by carpets and such) than the rather high-pitched click and generally much softer bottoming out sound of a G80 with blues.

In a somewhat echo-y lab (not really suited for blues), a G80 with clears served me well - unfortunately these are not made in UK layout. Their decent tactility and noise levels not too far from blacks make them a decent compromise. Maybe you could give a board with blacks a try (or if you're into more advanced solutions, obtain both a German layout model with clears and a UK one with blacks and swap keycaps). Or perhaps you can find a FSC (now only Fujitsu) KBPC PX (S26381-K340-V165).

[ch_123]

Also, the AT102Ws are not all that pleasant to type on.

Topres? Browns?