FKBN87M vs ML

[DrunkenDonut]

Okay, I've had both keyboards for a bit over a week now. I use the (Cherry) brown at home, where I'm mostly surfing the net, chatting, and posting in forums. I use the black at work for coding and whatnot. I find I can switch between them fairly easily and I don't really make more typos on one or the other. I'm enjoying the feel. I also have a Das 3 (blues) at home which I can break out any time I want.

The main difference I feel is that the blacks are a lot more solid. I don't know if this is just Filco, but they feel nice and tight. They don't wobble, create any resistance when hit off centre, or make more noise. I can type on the blacks without bottoming out, and without spending any effort to not bottom out. With browns and blues, the natural tendency for me is to bottom out. The heavy springs in the blacks help with this. Perhaps that's also a reason I find it quieter to type on. I don't really find it natural to type without pressing the keys all the way down so it'll actually cause more strain on my hands to do half way presses. I can see how the weight could fatique you after some time, but it's not going to be a problem for me.

The browns are a little noisier and feel looser somehow. The soft tactile is nice but I might prefer either the blacks or blues over the brown (now that I've had a chance to type a bunch on all three). Due to lighter springs, my natural tendency kicks in and I can easily bottom out the keys, which I do most of the time. I'm actually adjusting to the light weight, and the muscle memory of not bottoming on the blacks, so I'm getting better with the browns now. The keys are still looser though, so they still make more noise than the blacks.

The blues are about the same looseness but are the chattiest of the bunch because of the click tactile, not the key noise. I don't know if I type worse on blues or if it's the Das doing its thing, but I have more typos on the Das by a little bit. Perhaps a blue Cherry'd Filco is in my future.

I really want to compare with a white/clear Cherry and a green Cherry. That'll be great in Filco tenkeyless form but I'll almost settle for any keyboard with those switches right now. Heck, may as well throw in a Topre for good measure - I'm curious to feel and listen to a good dome keyboard. This is worse than Pokemon. :decision:

[rdjack21]

I have been hesitant to get a black cherry due to most people not really liking them for typing on. After reading your review I think I just may have to get one and try it for myself.

Where did you get your black cherry filco from?

[itlnstln]

I like these comparison reviews. FIGHT!
 
So do you do any gaming? Curious how the Black Cherries would work for that.
 
On the looseness issue - I always wondered if Cherries were just inherently looser - the keycaps sit on this little platform compared to a Topre or Model M. Maybe the stronger springs tighten all that up.

Alps are pretty loose as well.  Actually, I find them considerably looser than Cherrys.  I would imagine you are correct, though.  The stiffer springs in the blacks should keep things from wobbling around too much.

[DrunkenDonut]

I got my Filcos from Elite Keyboards..

I used to play FPS (HL2, TF, etc.) but I've been spending more time in Warhammer Online, but I haven't even logged in to that for a few weeks now. I doubt it'll change my game play much anyway - I wasn't having keyboard issues before, and I really shouldn't now.

On looseness, the keycaps are always tight - the only movement comes from the key switches themselves. They need to have some amount of play to reduce friction and binding, but you don't want them wobbly either. So far I haven't had any real wobble or binding issues on any of my keyboards.

Hm.. random thought... Someone needs to make a "quiet" buckling spring key switch module so we can have a nice modern tenkeyless BS 'board.

[IBI]

I think the blacks must be pretty sensitive to their keycaps, my Raptor K1 is absolutely awful unless you really slam them down - typing lightly just makes the keys feel twitchy and uncertain. Replacing them with the keycaps off my maxiswitch did help a little, but I can see why Costar may have found they needed to make particulaly well fitting keycaps for the black filcos.

[DrunkenDonut]

I found some other interesting things playing around with my keyboards.

I swapped a few key caps from my Das 3 to the Filco (browns), and I find that they make a slightly different sound. I can't describe the difference, but they're just slightly different. Also, the Das' caps come off a lot easier on both keyboards. The Filco caps are tight on the Filco and I think even tighter on the Das. It's mostly in the cap moulding, but the key switches seem to make a slight difference too.

The keys are wobbly on the browns as I mentioned earlier. I find them relatively nice and tight on the blacks, and just now I see they're also tight on the blues. There doesn't seem to be much difference, but it's noticeable and it bothers me.

Back to key sound. Having had a few caps off, I really like the sound of rapid fire blues with the caps off. The Das' key caps really sharpen the click sound. If I could have the "bare sound" with caps on, that would be most awesome. There seem to be so many aspects to key sound. Without bottoming out (to eliminate one aspect): Every row of the Filco makes a different sound, so the board itself changes the sound. The key cap also changes the sound (re: the Das swap above - materials, and probably shape too). The mere presence of a key cap changes the key sound. I find the brown a little noisy too (since I bottom out a lot) - I bet if I stuck some damping material on the switch, I would make this so much quieter.

Having spent even more time with the keyboards, and reading a bit more here, I really should try the clear MX switches and perhaps even black alps to see how they compare. It's not going to happen for awhile though, since I can't find anyone close with other mech keyboards, and I need to space out my purchases. I'm now liking the blacks and blues over the brown. Poor brown, I seem to really bagging on it.  I think the biggest difference in feel is the tightness of the keys - If the browns were less wobbly, I would think better of them. Sigh.

Oh, almost forgot, my F, E, and Spacebar on the black are getting shinier. Why can't they make caps like they used to? Recalling by BTC keyboard - If they stuck that textured stuff that's over the lettering to completely cover the key, I bet they'll almost never go shiny unless you scraped it off. It was some durable stuff.

[DrunkenDonut]

Haha.. Maybe I'll sell off the brown so I can stop complaining about it. It's so hard to do though. I'll grab a few more keyboards (blues, XM) and then compare some more. Then I'll *need* to sell something.

My Filco collection is growing. Yay

[itlnstln]

I have only sold one 'board; my MX-11800.  I turned around and bought my G80-3000 and Filco, both with brown Cherrys.  The MX-11800 was my brown Cherry tester.  I wanted to sell some of my other 'boards, but several of them have nostalgic and, otherwise, vintage value to me, so I don't want to let them go.  If anyone wants the ABSs, PM me.

[DrunkenDonut]

Ooh, even more choice. I was looking for an ABS to try out on day. They use the black alps style, right? And in a rather Filco-like casing too, IIRC.

I only have a couple of boards that I really want to hang on to. AFAIK, the rest of the crappy keyboards I've used are long gone. The only good ones are the ones I currently have. I might be willing to let go of a blue label IBM Model M (Mexican) one day, as I'm not making use of it. Hopefully to a local person, as it weighs quite a bit.

$100 is a magical number. People are more than willing to spend $100 (like me), but $300 is hard, especially if it's on a single board. I'm approaching $300+ pretty soon on several boards.  The Topre taunts me every time I visit elitekeyboards.com.

itlnstln, if you're willing to hold on to an M1 for a short time, I'd appreciate it. I'll know what I'm doing in a couple of weeks. As it was stated in another thread, it's available at newegg.ca but shipping kinda kills things. UPS cross border.. boo...

[itlnstln]

Not a problem.  I've been holding on to them for quite a while, anyway.  FYI, the ABS looks exactly like my Filco aside from the logo.