Author Topic: FNG buys keyboard he always wanted.  (Read 2853 times)

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Offline Red October

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FNG buys keyboard he always wanted.
« on: Tue, 02 June 2009, 00:43:20 »
Hi there chaps; new geek here, longtime keyboard fan (learned to use a computer on a VT100 clone, learned to type on a ][e, can't stand a mushy keyboard, currently use an M5-II).

So I just bought on ebay one of those huge PS/2 compatible terminal emulator keyboards based on the Model M platform.  Anyway, the question is this: How many of the extra keys can I use on the PC, and what functions can I get them to perform?  Is there some way to make them do something close to what they were meant to do on a terminal?  Do I need drivers or a special tool?  Is there some utility that can customize what they do?  

Thanks in advance for any help rendered.

Offline IBI

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FNG buys keyboard he always wanted.
« Reply #1 on: Tue, 02 June 2009, 09:31:32 »
If they send scan codes then an application like autohotkey should let you configure them to do anything.
Owned: Raptor-Gaming K1 (linear MX)(Broken), IBM Model M UK, Dell AT102W, Left-handed keyboard with Type 1 Simplified Alps.

Offline Red October

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FNG buys keyboard he always wanted.
« Reply #2 on: Wed, 03 June 2009, 01:14:54 »
Considering that, AFAIK, these things were meant to interface with terminal emulator programmes through a PC-compatible system, then I'd have to say that logic would dictate that every key send a scancode so that the PC can send something to the emulator programme.  Thanks for the info!

Offline Red October

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FNG buys keyboard he always wanted.
« Reply #3 on: Sat, 13 June 2009, 02:14:00 »
OK, here we go.  I got it in the mail today (in fact I'm typing on it now... still gettin used to the smaller left shift key).  I downloaded Autohotkey and a scancode viewing programme (horrible DOS affair that eats up half the CPU while running), but I'm not quite sure how to get it to do exactly what I wanted.  I did download and install a 122-key keyboard driver that is supposed to go with this thing (even though it is sold as "driverless), and I'm not entirely sure what, if anything, it did.  My keyboard is still shown as being as 102/104 key keyboard.  That said the scancode viewer revealed some telling things, namely that the extra function keys all seem to produce a scancode that is just a shifted version of the one twelve "lower" than the key -i.e. F22 produces a shifted F10.  The block of keys to the left that are where the function keys are on an XT keyboard produce bizzarre scancodes that I can't find any info for.  Maybe I'm too new to it, but I can't quite figgure out how to use AutoHotKey to remap these keys to do anything useful.  At least the start menu and context menu keys are off in this block, which is actually a great place for them; this is the first keyboard I've ever seen that has them in an acceptable place.

Offline IBI

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FNG buys keyboard he always wanted.
« Reply #4 on: Sat, 13 June 2009, 05:48:24 »
IIRC scancodes entrys in autohotkey are just SC###, where ### is the scan code. The manual will have the entries for shift and the f-keys.
Owned: Raptor-Gaming K1 (linear MX)(Broken), IBM Model M UK, Dell AT102W, Left-handed keyboard with Type 1 Simplified Alps.

Offline ch_123

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FNG buys keyboard he always wanted.
« Reply #5 on: Sat, 13 June 2009, 06:24:40 »
If autohotkey can detect XT scan codes, does that mean in theory that you could hook up an XT keyboard to a modern machine, and use autohotkey to make it compatible? (Far fetched I know, I'm just wondering if it could be done)

Offline Manyak

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FNG buys keyboard he always wanted.
« Reply #6 on: Sat, 13 June 2009, 06:33:44 »
Quote from: ch_123;95934
If autohotkey can detect XT scan codes, does that mean in theory that you could hook up an XT keyboard to a modern machine, and use autohotkey to make it compatible? (Far fetched I know, I'm just wondering if it could be done)


Nope, the entire protocol used to communicate is different (different stop bits, parity bits, etc).
Currently Owned:
Filco FKBN104MC/EB - Model M 1390131 \'86 - Model M 1391401 NIB - Unicomp Endurapro NIB - iRocks KR-6230 - Compaq MX-11800 - Cherry G80-8113HRBUS-2 - Cherry ML-4100 - Cherry MY-8000-something - Dell AT101W (Black) - ABS M1 - Siig Minitouch - Chicony KB-5181 w/ SMK Montereys - Chicony KB-5181 w/ SMK Montereys NIB - Cherry G80-3494LYCUS-2 - Deck Legend

Offline ch_123

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FNG buys keyboard he always wanted.
« Reply #7 on: Sat, 13 June 2009, 06:35:47 »
Ah right. I always knew there was something more to it than just scancodes, thanks for clearing it up.

Offline Red October

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FNG buys keyboard he always wanted.
« Reply #8 on: Mon, 15 June 2009, 00:57:44 »
I clearly need either a programme somewhat less complex than AutoHotKey, as it is sort of like using a an industrial cutting laser to cut your coupons for my purposes, or at least to become more familiar with its manual and use, as it will appear to get the job done.  The scancodes themselves are not unusual, actually, only a couple are really unusual, the one that is blank on top and has "clear" on its front face produces the Japanese "Break" scancode (E11D) plus NumLock (45), but doens't cycle NumLock itself, and the one labeled "Erlnp" makes E02A  E04F, which is a "fake" LeftShift plus end, in practice it functions as an "end", not a shifted end, at least in text editors.  If NumLock is off, it simply produces the "end" scancode.

Other oddments include a key to the right of Lshift (this is the chief impediment to typing on this board though I am rapidly growing acustomed to it) that bears the two Wakas, although it will not type them (in function it duplicates the righthand key that makes the pipe and the backslash but sends the scancode 56), but since it uses an unused scancode (56) I can probably change it so at least it does what its keycap says it does... unless someone can tell me just what scancode 56 is for as my refference for them simply says it is usually found on an unlabeled key.  There are other oddments as well, such as the hideously confusing nature of the keys surrounding Enter, which have their terminal and PC labels in the same color.  Lastly, the keypad asterisk and a key labeled "SetUp", also on the keypad, don't send any scancode at all, and don't do anything.  I'm not sure if this means my unit is faulty.  Perhaps someone else with one of these boards can chime in on this.

Offline chimera15

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FNG buys keyboard he always wanted.
« Reply #9 on: Mon, 15 June 2009, 05:47:00 »
Alps boards:
white real complicated: 1x modified siiig minitouch kb1903,  hhkb light2 english steampunk hack, wireless siig minitouch hack
white with rubber damper(cream)+clicky springs: 2x modified siig minitouch kb1903 1x modified siig minitouch kb1948
white fake simplified:   1x white smk-85, 1x Steampunk compact board hack
white real simplified: 1x unitek k-258
low profile: 1x mint m1242 in box
black: ultra mini wrist keyboard hack
blue: Japanese hhk2 lite hack, 1x siig minitouch pcb/doubleshot dc-2014 caps. kb1903, 1x modified kb1948 Siig minitouch
rainbow test boards:  mck-84sx


Offline Red October

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FNG buys keyboard he always wanted.
« Reply #10 on: Tue, 16 June 2009, 00:36:32 »
OK, I can get the two-wakas key to make the "<" correctly, but not the ">", since I can't get AutoHotKey to do properly respond to a shifted scancode 56 or a shifted "<".  Nor can I get it to do anything with the double scancodes from most of the keys on the left.  But hey, progress is progress!