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Offline huha

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M2 hassles
« on: Tue, 02 June 2009, 08:56:30 »
I recently bought a used M2 on ebay and as luck would have it, it's defective. Yaay!
I haven't tried the electrical side of things, but RShift and RCtrl are completely stuck, whereas Return is somewhat sticky when pressed off-center. Are there any easy remedies for these problems? The M2 uses, if I recall correctly, somewhat flimsy key supports, so I'm not that eager to yank out the keys like on my Endurapro. Any recommendations?



-huha
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Unicomp Endurapro 105 (blank keycaps, BS) // Cherry G80-3000LSCDE-2 (blues, modded to green MX) // Cherry G80-3000LAMDE-0 (blacks, 2x) // Cherry G80-11900LTMDE-0 (blacks, 2x) // Compaq G80-11801 (browns) // Epson Q203A (Fujitsu Peerless) // IBM Model M2 (BS) // Boscom AS400 Terminal Emulator (OEM\'d Unicomp, BS, 2x) // Dell AT102DW (black Alps) // Mechanical Touch (chinese BS) Acer 6312-KW (Acer mechanics on membrane) // Cherry G84-4100 (ML) // Cherry G80-1000HAD (NKRO, blacks)

Offline Mercen_505

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M2 hassles
« Reply #1 on: Tue, 02 June 2009, 09:38:45 »
The M2 is really easy to break down, unlike an M. I'd go that route first, giving it a thorough cleaning while the opportunity is present.
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Offline huha

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M2 hassles
« Reply #2 on: Tue, 02 June 2009, 10:09:56 »
Quote from: Mercen_505;93874
The M2 is really easy to break down, unlike an M. I'd go that route first, giving it a thorough cleaning while the opportunity is present.


I always thought it was a very delicate board. I'd try reseating the stuck keys, but I don't feel like damaging anything, so I didn't yank them out yet. Any recommendations on removing these three keys?

Quote from: ripster;93876
Better check the electrical  part  first.  A lot of problems there are caused by the caps IIRC.


Well, why should I? The electrical part is no problem whatsoever, as it can be fixed quite easily. I could just put in a new controller for what it's worth, so this is no concern. As easy as repairing electronics is, as impossible is it to repair plastic parts, at least for me. I'd like my keyboards to be usable, and the M2 definitely is not with these keys.

Quote
Two in a row Ebays with problems - hope they didn't call it "MINT" or "COLLECTIBLE" or "HACKERS SPECIAL".

Those may all just be US Ebay seller terms that don't translate well.


The M2 was described as (I took the liberty to translate it):
"Hello!!!

You're bidding on a used IBM keyboard, model 1395707. The remarkable thing about this keyboard is the clicking of the keys, so every keypress is affirmed [that way].

Have fun bidding."

The Compaq was described as (again, translated):

"Up for auction:

COMPAQ keyboard with integrated mouse!!!

It's completely functional but features slight traces of use! (cf. picture)

Connection via PS/2"


I do hope it works out well in the end, I don't quite envy spending quite some money on damaged keyboards.

-huha
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Unicomp Endurapro 105 (blank keycaps, BS) // Cherry G80-3000LSCDE-2 (blues, modded to green MX) // Cherry G80-3000LAMDE-0 (blacks, 2x) // Cherry G80-11900LTMDE-0 (blacks, 2x) // Compaq G80-11801 (browns) // Epson Q203A (Fujitsu Peerless) // IBM Model M2 (BS) // Boscom AS400 Terminal Emulator (OEM\'d Unicomp, BS, 2x) // Dell AT102DW (black Alps) // Mechanical Touch (chinese BS) Acer 6312-KW (Acer mechanics on membrane) // Cherry G84-4100 (ML) // Cherry G80-1000HAD (NKRO, blacks)

Offline lowpoly

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M2 hassles
« Reply #3 on: Wed, 03 June 2009, 06:43:24 »
IIRC, I just popped the keys off. But be cautious with the big keys. The level bracket is plastic and part of the keycap. The space bar was the only one that took some time to figure out how to remove the bracket.

I let the kids re-assemble it and they managed to bend a spring in the process. That could be repaired though.

If you completely disassemble it take a pic when the membrane is removed. There are more holes than springs.

If something has been spilled into the board I recommend the dishwasher (not more than 55 deg Celsius).
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Offline huha

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M2 hassles
« Reply #4 on: Wed, 03 June 2009, 07:44:28 »
Quote from: lowpoly;94043
IIRC, I just popped the keys off. But be cautious with the big keys. The level bracket is plastic and part of the keycap. The space bar was the only one that took some time to figure out how to remove the bracket.

I let the kids re-assemble it and they managed to bend a spring in the process. That could be repaired though.

If you completely disassemble it take a pic when the membrane is removed. There are more holes than springs.

If something has been spilled into the board I recommend the dishwasher (not more than 55 deg Celsius).


Can you define "the big keys?"
The offending keys are Return, RShift and RCtrl. Return and RShift, on my Unicomp Endurapro, use more than one "hole," so I'm a bit anxious to remove the stuck keys on the M2. I don't want to break anything, as this could further complicate communication with the seller.

-huha
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Unicomp Endurapro 105 (blank keycaps, BS) // Cherry G80-3000LSCDE-2 (blues, modded to green MX) // Cherry G80-3000LAMDE-0 (blacks, 2x) // Cherry G80-11900LTMDE-0 (blacks, 2x) // Compaq G80-11801 (browns) // Epson Q203A (Fujitsu Peerless) // IBM Model M2 (BS) // Boscom AS400 Terminal Emulator (OEM\'d Unicomp, BS, 2x) // Dell AT102DW (black Alps) // Mechanical Touch (chinese BS) Acer 6312-KW (Acer mechanics on membrane) // Cherry G84-4100 (ML) // Cherry G80-1000HAD (NKRO, blacks)

Offline Mercen_505

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M2 hassles
« Reply #5 on: Wed, 03 June 2009, 08:56:43 »
Quote

Can you define "the big keys?"


The double size keys like backspace, enter, shift, and plus and enter on the number pad.

The board itself is really simple. You've got a few membranes and springs sandwiched between the two halves of the housing. The only tricky thing is getting the catches on the back to release without breaking anything. I generally use a few jeweler screwdrivers (I have several sets) and work my way down the board from one side to the other.

I got two off Ebay for $5 plus shipping. One worked in arrival but died shortly thereafter; the other was DOA. I haven't tried repairing them yet. I've got a rubber dome M2 variant that I'm typing on right now.
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Offline huha

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M2 hassles
« Reply #6 on: Wed, 03 June 2009, 09:18:12 »
Quote from: Mercen_505;94052
The double size keys like backspace, enter, shift, and plus and enter on the number pad.


Yes, that's precisely my problem. Return, RShift and RCtrl need to be repaired and I don't want to break anything. Is there a guide to dissembling the thing?
I'd much rather have the seller take it back and stuff it up his crevice than to fiddle around with these horrible key supports. They are prone to breaking, so I thought at least he'd sell working ones ...

-huha
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Unicomp Endurapro 105 (blank keycaps, BS) // Cherry G80-3000LSCDE-2 (blues, modded to green MX) // Cherry G80-3000LAMDE-0 (blacks, 2x) // Cherry G80-11900LTMDE-0 (blacks, 2x) // Compaq G80-11801 (browns) // Epson Q203A (Fujitsu Peerless) // IBM Model M2 (BS) // Boscom AS400 Terminal Emulator (OEM\'d Unicomp, BS, 2x) // Dell AT102DW (black Alps) // Mechanical Touch (chinese BS) Acer 6312-KW (Acer mechanics on membrane) // Cherry G84-4100 (ML) // Cherry G80-1000HAD (NKRO, blacks)

Offline Mercen_505

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M2 hassles
« Reply #7 on: Wed, 03 June 2009, 11:48:13 »
http://www.instructables.com/id/Clean_your_vintage_IBM_M2_clicky_keyboard/

It's really not that bad. Just remember that when you pop the case open, if you're not holding it upside down the springs will go everywhere :)
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Offline huha

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M2 hassles
« Reply #8 on: Wed, 03 June 2009, 12:38:13 »
Quote from: Mercen_505;94066
http://www.instructables.com/id/Clean_your_vintage_IBM_M2_clicky_keyboard/

It's really not that bad. Just remember that when you pop the case open, if you're not holding it upside down the springs will go everywhere :)


Please excuse my constant asking, but I don't want to damage the thing while the seller has not responded yet--what exactly do I need to do to remove Return and RShift? Do they feature interlocking plastic levers or can they just be pulled out with enough force, like on classic Model Ms?

-huha
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Unicomp Endurapro 105 (blank keycaps, BS) // Cherry G80-3000LSCDE-2 (blues, modded to green MX) // Cherry G80-3000LAMDE-0 (blacks, 2x) // Cherry G80-11900LTMDE-0 (blacks, 2x) // Compaq G80-11801 (browns) // Epson Q203A (Fujitsu Peerless) // IBM Model M2 (BS) // Boscom AS400 Terminal Emulator (OEM\'d Unicomp, BS, 2x) // Dell AT102DW (black Alps) // Mechanical Touch (chinese BS) Acer 6312-KW (Acer mechanics on membrane) // Cherry G84-4100 (ML) // Cherry G80-1000HAD (NKRO, blacks)

Offline lowpoly

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M2 hassles
« Reply #9 on: Wed, 03 June 2009, 13:30:46 »
This is what RShift removed looks like:



I just pulled it. I don't think you can break it as the bracket will just slide out off the channels. But note the thin spring-like connection between bracket and keycap. Pulling the key doesn't require much force however.

When I tried to re-seat the key I missed one channel which lead to the key being stuck at the bottom. The red arrows indicate what goes where. Not really neccessary I guess.

The Return key doen't have a plastic bracket but a metal wire bracket. It looks like it will separate if the pulling doesn't go as expected.
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Offline lowpoly

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M2 hassles
« Reply #10 on: Wed, 03 June 2009, 13:34:54 »
Just saw that Ctrl is also stuck. This can happen when the key is not seated properly. I don't push them in from the top but from the front in an arc-like motion.
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Offline Hak Foo

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M2 hassles
« Reply #11 on: Wed, 03 June 2009, 19:51:07 »
I might suggest opening and re-closing the case... the key area may be a millimetre or two off alignment from the holes.

When my Customizer is open, it can be fouled that way fairly easily, at the bottom row.
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Offline lowpoly

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M2 hassles
« Reply #12 on: Thu, 04 June 2009, 03:30:48 »
Quote from: Hak Foo;94108
I might suggest opening and re-closing the case... the key area may be a millimetre or two off alignment from the holes.
It's only one part with the M2.
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Offline lowpoly

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M2 hassles
« Reply #13 on: Fri, 05 June 2009, 19:38:37 »
And?
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Offline huha

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M2 hassles
« Reply #14 on: Fri, 05 June 2009, 19:42:38 »
I contacted the seller. I'll give him a few days to respond and state his cause, and then I'll try to remove the offending keys.

So it's another few days of waiting ...

-huha
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Unicomp Endurapro 105 (blank keycaps, BS) // Cherry G80-3000LSCDE-2 (blues, modded to green MX) // Cherry G80-3000LAMDE-0 (blacks, 2x) // Cherry G80-11900LTMDE-0 (blacks, 2x) // Compaq G80-11801 (browns) // Epson Q203A (Fujitsu Peerless) // IBM Model M2 (BS) // Boscom AS400 Terminal Emulator (OEM\'d Unicomp, BS, 2x) // Dell AT102DW (black Alps) // Mechanical Touch (chinese BS) Acer 6312-KW (Acer mechanics on membrane) // Cherry G84-4100 (ML) // Cherry G80-1000HAD (NKRO, blacks)

Offline huha

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M2 hassles
« Reply #15 on: Tue, 09 June 2009, 16:54:48 »
The story continues. I used some of my PS/2-to-USB adapters to test if it's at least working (I should have done this at the start, but I didn't want to do anything to the pristine condition in which this keyboard was shipped), and well ... it's not. Great, another defective M2. I'm a bit pissed, as nothing of this was ever mentioned in the description and I surely wouldn't have payed that amount for a keyboard I'll need to dissemble completely and then repair with tools and parts I don't have. Oh, the joy!

-huha
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Unicomp Endurapro 105 (blank keycaps, BS) // Cherry G80-3000LSCDE-2 (blues, modded to green MX) // Cherry G80-3000LAMDE-0 (blacks, 2x) // Cherry G80-11900LTMDE-0 (blacks, 2x) // Compaq G80-11801 (browns) // Epson Q203A (Fujitsu Peerless) // IBM Model M2 (BS) // Boscom AS400 Terminal Emulator (OEM\'d Unicomp, BS, 2x) // Dell AT102DW (black Alps) // Mechanical Touch (chinese BS) Acer 6312-KW (Acer mechanics on membrane) // Cherry G84-4100 (ML) // Cherry G80-1000HAD (NKRO, blacks)

Offline iMav

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M2 hassles
« Reply #16 on: Wed, 10 June 2009, 02:27:53 »
Fortunately, as others have mentioned here, these are dead easy to refurbish.  As long as the keycaps are in good shape, you're golden.  Typical electrical issue fix is documented here.  Also, you can get a set of replacement buckling spring assemblies from Unicomp.

I put in an entire new set of BS's in my M2 when I refurbished it.  I wish the regular M's were half as servicable.
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Offline huha

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M2 hassles
« Reply #17 on: Wed, 10 June 2009, 06:03:58 »
Quote from: iMav;95125
Fortunately, as others have mentioned here, these are dead easy to refurbish.  As long as the keycaps are in good shape, you're golden.  Typical electrical issue fix is documented here.  Also, you can get a set of replacement buckling spring assemblies from Unicomp.

I put in an entire new set of BS's in my M2 when I refurbished it.  I wish the regular M's were half as servicable.


clickykeyboards sell working M2s. This one has had its share of problems already and repairing it won't be easy for me, as I lack the tools. Who knows what else this keyboard has been through? I'm in Europe, so any replacement mechanics are simply too expensive.

Let's see how this will end ...

-huha
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Unicomp Endurapro 105 (blank keycaps, BS) // Cherry G80-3000LSCDE-2 (blues, modded to green MX) // Cherry G80-3000LAMDE-0 (blacks, 2x) // Cherry G80-11900LTMDE-0 (blacks, 2x) // Compaq G80-11801 (browns) // Epson Q203A (Fujitsu Peerless) // IBM Model M2 (BS) // Boscom AS400 Terminal Emulator (OEM\'d Unicomp, BS, 2x) // Dell AT102DW (black Alps) // Mechanical Touch (chinese BS) Acer 6312-KW (Acer mechanics on membrane) // Cherry G84-4100 (ML) // Cherry G80-1000HAD (NKRO, blacks)

Offline lowpoly

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M2 hassles
« Reply #18 on: Thu, 11 June 2009, 12:38:53 »
Could you reseat the keys?
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