Numpad layer. Ignored and underrated feature in compact keyboards?

[Grim Fandango]

I never hear anything good about the numpads that are layers on keyboards accessed through a function or numlock keys.

Take the Realforce 87u TKL layout for example. Even before you have the muscle memory to touch type the numpad, you can already use it without looking just because the layout is so easy. 789 overlap with 789 on the number-row, so most people are already used to them (since you keep your fingers at home row). 123 is simply your homerow's jkl which is somehow intuitive. And the uio being 456 just kind of falls into place and is easy to get used to. My experience is that it does not take long at all before this starts feeling like using a normal numpad when it comes to using numbers.

Because I find it so easy and comfortable to use, I find it kind of strange that the omission of a numpad layer on a keyboard without a dedicated numpad is something that is hardly ever complained about. I also find it odd that people (in reviews and such) will often mention that it is a useless feature. Is this because others find it harder to use? Because they do not even give it a try? Or perhaps because they are experts at touch typing the numbers row and it offers them no advantage?

[Novus]

I never use the numpad on my realforce.
As a touch typist I never bothered to learn the compact layout and I just use regular number row.

Also because the numberpad on the realforce is "staggered" it messes with your muscle memory (for a regular numberpad that is).
For heavy number crunching, I do find a standardized dedicated numberpad is the best though.

[Grim Fandango]

I never use the numpad on my realforce.
As a touch typist I never bothered to learn the compact layout and I just use regular number row.

Also because the numberpad on the realforce is "staggered" it messes with your muscle memory (for a regular numberpad that is).
For heavy number crunching, I do find a standardized dedicated numberpad is the best though.

I wish I could say the same. If I have to enter a number sequence I simply get lost on the number row, even if I can type the numbers reliably by themselves. I even do it properly with the correct fingers and what not, but that does not keep me from getting lost when entering too many numbers in rapid succession. Maybe this is just the essential skill I am missing. But I can't be the only one. And the staggered numpad is just so much easier to use in comparison. For me it is the difference between something I learn in a week, and something I have not been able to do well despite using the numbers row for years like everyone else.

I have not found that the staggered layout messes with my muscle memory (or at least not to an extent that I ever noticed it). I have a full keyboard at work and a compact keyboard at home, and both feel fine when using the numpad. Maybe that is because of using them both frequently instead of switching completely to a staggered numpad. I can imagine that if staggered is all you use, it may be confusing to go back to a regular numpad. Then again, if staggered is all you use, why would you care.

[jacobolus]

Yeah, it was pretty annoying that when Apple switched their laptop keyboards from using ADB internally to using USB (I think coinciding with the Intel transition?) they got rid of the embedded numpad. I used to use it all the time on my 12" powerbook.

W/r/t embedded numpads in general, there are some old IBM beam-spring data entry boards that get this right: the home row should be 456, not 123.

[SonOfSonOfSpock]

I don't like the stagger of embedded numpads. It just doesn't feel the same.

[ds26gte]

I use the embedded numpad on my compact (SMK-88 Blue) keyboard too, not for the numbers but for Mouse Keys. The newer TKLs and 60 and 75%s seem to have all given up on the numpad.  Someone here suggested using the keynav program with a numpadless keyboard, but while keynav can move the pointer, and click, it can't "drag".

I don't know if there is a Linux program that will map the MouseKeys functionality to keys other than the numpad. Until such an animal is born, I have to stick with my older (circa 2007, 1KRO) model keyboard.

[Grim Fandango]

I don't like the stagger of embedded numpads. It just doesn't feel the same.

This is true. It feels really different from the normal numpad and you won't be able to switch from one to the other without "investing" a little time to get used to it. I think this is why many people tend to just ignore it. But I think that if they would give it a fair try, many would be surprised with how functional a staggered numpad layer can be and how little it takes to get used to it.

[Grim Fandango]

W/r/t embedded numpads in general, there are some old IBM beam-spring data entry boards that get this right: the home row should be 456, not 123.

I agree that this might be even better. Having homerow in the "middle" of the number cluster might actually be more comfortable to use, as things would be easier to reach.