Making a LED desoldering / soldering tool

[berserkfan]

Inspired by the smart guys who created the paperclip switch top remover tool, I am putting this idea out to solicit suggestions and information.

I want to desolder (and resolder) lots and lots of LEDs.

It's a big pain.

I have found that it's easier to remove an LED if I simply clamp the board on its edge, then use one hand to heat both LED pads and pull out the LED on the other side.

However, this means that the iron has to be pressed against the PCB as well between the solder pads. I don't like that.

I'm thinking of making a forklike tool to help with LED soldering/desoldering. I need to find some way to attach two needles or pins or metal tips to the regular soldering iron, bent to precisely the correct spacing between LED solder pads. By pressing this against the LED pads, I can heat them quickly and efficiently and accurately, and thereby both solder and desolder LEDs easily.

Now, what materials should I use? Obviously I can't use another soldering iron to solder two needles/ metal rods to my soldering iron, since the solder will melt first. If I use copper or steel wire to tie two rods that might work, but I'm concerned that there will be lots of wasted heat and also I doubt I can tie tightly enough to ensure that the two prongs of this 'fork' stay in place in the course of a soldering session.

I'm throwing this idea out to everyone. I'm sure many geekhackers have plenty of experience soldering/ desoldering LEDs and everyone knows that's a huge pain. So how do you guys improve your experience?

[Oobly]

A wide enough bit works just fine, no need for a special tool, IMHO. It won't damage the PCB if you don't leave it in place too long. If you want to make one then go ahead, but it's not so easy to attach something to a soldering bit. I think it would be better to just buy a wider soldering tip for your iron.

[dorkvader]

What if you had a tip for your soldering iron that looks like this:


or this:


Those're pace tips for SMD chip removal. It's designed to heat two pads at once.

I've been keeping an eye out for cheap ones (of the right spacing) on eBay.

Another option is to use two soldering irons together. Or one dedicated tool like this:

(I actually have tips for this but not the device itself. Going to sell them on eBay sometime)

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A wide enough bit works just fine, no need for a special tool, IMHO. It won't damage the PCB if you don't leave it in place too long. If you want to make one then go ahead, but it's not so easy to attach something to a soldering bit. I think it would be better to just buy a wider soldering tip for your iron.

Sadly, an iron will damage a PCB, depending on how old the PCB is and what sort of sodlermask it has on it. It's not uncommon to damage the sodlermask of a vintage PCB this way when desoldering. For an example, here's one I ran into the other day


caption: I tried to first desolder the controller from the controller side, but even with the Hakko 808 set to 230C, the mask was being melted and smudged, exposing traces. I still wanted to save the original controller, just in case.

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You may want to instead just get two soldering irons and make a brace holding them at the proper distance apart (likely at an angle).

[berserkfan]

Awesome; at least I now have the correct keywords to look up on ebay and internet. From then on it is only a matter of googling for more information, and buying and trying out.

"Pace tips for SMD chip removal"

And what is the dedicated tool with two tips called? I think it might come in useful more and more because much of desoldering involves two contacts. I would greatly prefer not to use a homemade brace; soldering irons aren't very expensive and I expect to work on quite a large number of LEDs.

[Oobly]

Or have a look at the Weller RTW soldering tweezers

Just the tool for SMD and LED's. You can squeeze it to the right width.

[berserkfan]

Or have a look at the Weller RTW soldering tweezers

Just the tool for SMD and LED's. You can squeeze it to the right width.

Um, while that is a great tool and I'm salivating at it, I am not salivating at the price in the link you gave. 259 pounds? That's $400USD.

Even assuming a Chinese made knockoff is a quarter the price I am looking at an outlay of $100. Answer: no way. Sorry but this is not a viable solution for the vast majority of geekhackers including me. It's strictly a pro tool.

[dorkvader]

And what is the dedicated tool with two tips called? I think it might come in useful more and more because much of desoldering involves two contacts. I would greatly prefer not to use a homemade brace; soldering irons aren't very expensive and I expect to work on quite a large number of LEDs.

The tool I linked is a Pace TT-65 Thermotweez
http://paceworldwide.com/products/handpieces/tweezers/tt65-thermotweez-intelliheat

All the big soldering brands have their own, Pace, JBC, Metcal: Even lower-end ones like Weller and Hakko do (More affordable though).

$400 is about what the pace handpiece goes for. Good equipment will save you a lot of money in the long term, but it's a bigger investment up front. Ask people like Melvang about good tools, and I'm sure he'll agree.

You can even get cheap ($30 - $60 ) chinese ones. Check out all these on eBay
http://www.ebay.com/sch/items/?_nkw=soldering+tweezers

[user 18]

I think a good solder sucker or desoldering station would be a better investment than a tool specifically for LEDs. With my desoldering station, I can melt the solder and suck it off the contacts, eliminating the issue where one contact will resolidify before the second pad melts. To resolder, if it's an LED near the edge of the board I can hold my solder in one hand, hold the LED into the switch with the same hand, and use the iron with the other. For other LEDs, I would need to be a bit more creative, but it's still doable.

The reason I recommend a desoldering tool is it's significantly more versatile than just LEDs, you can use them for pretty much anything (join size permitting, of course). With my setup, I don't really have any more issues with LEDs than I do with switches.

[dorkvader]

I think a good solder sucker or desoldering station would be a better investment than a tool specifically for LEDs. With my desoldering station, I can melt the solder and suck it off the contacts, eliminating the issue where one contact will resolidify before the second pad melts. To resolder, if it's an LED near the edge of the board I can hold my solder in one hand, hold the LED into the switch with the same hand, and use the iron with the other. For other LEDs, I would need to be a bit more creative, but it's still doable.

The reason I recommend a desoldering tool is it's significantly more versatile than just LEDs, you can use them for pretty much anything (join size permitting, of course). With my setup, I don't really have any more issues with LEDs than I do with switches.

A soldering tweezer would make desoldering any component with 2 leads significantly easier. Proper use of a desoldering station is to leave heat on the pad for quite some time, and many professionals (and manufacturers) recommend moving the lead around in the hole a little to ensure all the solder is actually melted before applying vacuum. This tends to work well with LEDs and most through hole components, but the technique is impossible on switches (with fixes leads) and anything rigid (like a teensy: those square pins in the round holes trap solder very well).

Instead of applying heat to the board, desodlering it, then fanning the board of f(to sink heat off the ground plane and prevent damaging everything on it) you can with a tweezer just heat both pads and pull the component out. Removing solder from a pad when there is no component present is a trivial task, even for lead-free solder on a dual-layer PCB.

It'd be a bit more tricky with an MX switch, as you'd need to heat the leads from one side, while pulling the switch out from the other. On a plate mount keyboard this also involves squeezing the clip that holds it to the plate. With some practise it's a very quick way to desolder switches from a PCB. Of course desoldering switches with in-switch diodes or jumpers is no more easy, but that's life (and what hot-air is for).

[berserkfan]

I am definitely inclined to agree with Dorkvader.

Watching the pros’ videos online I notice they put a big, powerful and hot desoldering device over a lead for several seconds before sucking. Now that’s great for good quality PCBs but it probably is too challenging for the lousier ones. There is too much heat going around and I dread lifting traces and causing complications.

And use these on an led? That seems to be overkill.

Or maybe, my dear user18, I am simply intimidated by the size of a desoldering station’s ‘tip’. It looks like a PCB burner to me.

OK, as a general matter to note:

Here’s the cheapest model I can find on Taobao. Hopefully it can handle 2-3 keyboards worth of LEDs every year for 10 years. I am not a professional technician and don’t need to spend more than absolutely necessary on tools that won’t be used much. http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.12.NlPLyc&id=306171612&ns=1#detail

Here is the name of the item电热镊子恒温加热镊子 恒温热镊子高迪焊台

焊台 Is soldering station.
高迪 Is the manufacturer.
温热镊子 refer to heating tweezers.

[Melvang]

Just want to give my two cents.  You will be much better off buying a quality tool even if it is two or three time a different brand even if it is very occasional use. 

One of the more recent contractors I worked for had a cheap 110vac stick welder.  For a Miller (the only brand I would give money for this size welder) it would have cost the company and 2.5 to 3 times as much.  I had the "opportunity" to use this cheap piece of s#*& a couple times.  It never once laid a single weld bead on anything even with the smallest weld rod we had, which was 75% of what it was supposed to do.  I have used millers of this size on other jobs and they preformed flawlessly.  You get what you pay for.

My suggestions

1.  Better your technique on removing LEDs with your current tooling as you have said you have braid and a sucker.

2.  Spend the money on a quality unit.

For what its worth I have less issues removing solder from LEDs with the leads still in the holes than after the leads are out.

[Oobly]

I am definitely inclined to agree with Dorkvader.

Watching the pros’ videos online I notice they put a big, powerful and hot desoldering device over a lead for several seconds before sucking. Now that’s great for good quality PCBs but it probably is too challenging for the lousier ones. There is too much heat going around and I dread lifting traces and causing complications.

And use these on an led? That seems to be overkill.

Or maybe, my dear user18, I am simply intimidated by the size of a desoldering station’s ‘tip’. It looks like a PCB burner to me.

OK, as a general matter to note:

Here’s the cheapest model I can find on Taobao. Hopefully it can handle 2-3 keyboards worth of LEDs every year for 10 years. I am not a professional technician and don’t need to spend more than absolutely necessary on tools that won’t be used much. http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.12.NlPLyc&id=306171612&ns=1#detail

Here is the name of the item电热镊子恒温加热镊子 恒温热镊子高迪焊台

焊台 Is soldering station.
高迪 Is the manufacturer.
温热镊子 refer to heating tweezers.

That looks like it will do the job well enough 

These would be GREAT for switches. I find using a solder sucker to remove switches quite a PITA. I would love to rather use a soldering tweezer and heat both pads at the same time. Less damage to the PCB, less heating time on the component itself, less stress on the component (sometimes one contact will still have just enough solder to hold the lead even though it looks clear). It would make swapping or modding switches and LED's a LOT easier.

The QFR board is actually a good example of a board that things can go wrong with for someone new to soldering and using a desoldering station / solder sucker. The pads lift easily.

Melvang, I agree with getting quality tools, but sometimes you have to balance the usage with the cost and if you're not doing a lot of soldering, a cheaper iron can do a fine job as long as it has the right power rating and doesn't have dodgy temperature control (overheating before making contact, then only heating again once it gets too cold). Perhaps a good compromise on quality / cost would be a Hakko FX 888D and a FX 8804 tweezers. I have heard a lot of good things about Hakko irons recently and consider them good value for money.

P.S. - Surely a decent stick welder doesn't cost much? Not something I would skimp on. Then again, I prefer oxy / fuel welding for almost everything unless speed is essential. Then TIG gets my vote (although some pieces will still require going over with a gas torch to relieve stress). IMHO, if you can gas weld, you can pick up other techniques pretty easily, even though they have their own peculiarities.

[berserkfan]

Just want to give my two cents.  You will be much better off buying a quality tool even if it is two or three time a different brand even if it is very occasional use. 

One of the more recent contractors I worked for had a cheap 110vac stick welder.  For a Miller (the only brand I would give money for this size welder) it would have cost the company and 2.5 to 3 times as much.  I had the "opportunity" to use this cheap piece of s#*& a couple times.  It never once laid a single weld bead on anything even with the smallest weld rod we had, which was 75% of what it was supposed to do.  I have used millers of this size on other jobs and they preformed flawlessly.  You get what you pay for.

My suggestions

1.  Better your technique on removing LEDs with your current tooling as you have said you have braid and a sucker.

2.  Spend the money on a quality unit.

For what its worth I have less issues removing solder from LEDs with the leads still in the holes than after the leads are out.

Melvang

agree in general that quality tools make sense but I think we need to consider the circumstances. I certainly find my cheap dremel a waste of space.

But LEDs have tiny pads and they are vulnerable to being destroyed. Repairing these are an incredible pain. Solder wick should easily clean up any LED after it is out of the hole.

[Melvang]

I am definitely inclined to agree with Dorkvader.

Watching the pros’ videos online I notice they put a big, powerful and hot desoldering device over a lead for several seconds before sucking. Now that’s great for good quality PCBs but it probably is too challenging for the lousier ones. There is too much heat going around and I dread lifting traces and causing complications.

And use these on an led? That seems to be overkill.

Or maybe, my dear user18, I am simply intimidated by the size of a desoldering station’s ‘tip’. It looks like a PCB burner to me.

OK, as a general matter to note:

Here’s the cheapest model I can find on Taobao. Hopefully it can handle 2-3 keyboards worth of LEDs every year for 10 years. I am not a professional technician and don’t need to spend more than absolutely necessary on tools that won’t be used much. http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.12.NlPLyc&id=306171612&ns=1#detail

Here is the name of the item电热镊子恒温加热镊子 恒温热镊子高迪焊台

焊台 Is soldering station.
高迪 Is the manufacturer.
温热镊子 refer to heating tweezers.

That looks like it will do the job well enough 

These would be GREAT for switches. I find using a solder sucker to remove switches quite a PITA. I would love to rather use a soldering tweezer and heat both pads at the same time. Less damage to the PCB, less heating time on the component itself, less stress on the component (sometimes one contact will still have just enough solder to hold the lead even though it looks clear). It would make swapping or modding switches and LED's a LOT easier.

The QFR board is actually a good example of a board that things can go wrong with for someone new to soldering and using a desoldering station / solder sucker. The pads lift easily.

Melvang, I agree with getting quality tools, but sometimes you have to balance the usage with the cost and if you're not doing a lot of soldering, a cheaper iron can do a fine job as long as it has the right power rating and doesn't have dodgy temperature control (overheating before making contact, then only heating again once it gets too cold). Perhaps a good compromise on quality / cost would be a Hakko FX 888D and a FX 8804 tweezers. I have heard a lot of good things about Hakko irons recently and consider them good value for money.

P.S. - Surely a decent stick welder doesn't cost much? Not something I would skimp on. Then again, I prefer oxy / fuel welding for almost everything unless speed is essential. Then TIG gets my vote (although some pieces will still require going over with a gas torch to relieve stress). IMHO, if you can gas weld, you can pick up other techniques pretty easily, even though they have their own peculiarities.

While I understand the usage and what not with the hobbyist level of things.  However, I feel that the best bet here would either be the Hakko desoldering pump.  The reason the tip looks so massive is because it fits around the entire pad instead of just on one side.  While I don't have any personal experience with it, the only bad thing I have heard about it was the tip getting clogged up.  But mkawa I know can help with tips on keeping that from happening.

@Oobly.  You are right that decent stick welders aren't that expensive.  But those are either 220vac or aren't setup to be able to run 1/8" rod.  To get a 120vac welder that can push enough amps to run 1/8" rod you are going to spend some good money.  I just looked on Millers site and for a stick only welder that can run off 120vac or 230vac and push 100amps at 120, which is on the low end of 1/8" rod) will cost a little over $1,000.  And this is only a 35% duty cycle.  For a 225vac input that can output up to 235 amps you can get for under $500.  Fory my job we don't weld thin enough material for oxy fuel welding to be practical.  About the thinnest we weld is 10ga steel.  Most common is 1/2"+.  And we don't have the time to clean up everything for TIG so we stick 95% of everything.

[dorkvader]

I am definitely inclined to agree with Dorkvader.

Watching the pros’ videos online I notice they put a big, powerful and hot desoldering device over a lead for several seconds before sucking. Now that’s great for good quality PCBs but it probably is too challenging for the lousier ones. There is too much heat going around and I dread lifting traces and causing complications.

And use these on an led? That seems to be overkill.

Or maybe, my dear user18, I am simply intimidated by the size of a desoldering station’s ‘tip’. It looks like a PCB burner to me.

OK, as a general matter to note:

Here’s the cheapest model I can find on Taobao. Hopefully it can handle 2-3 keyboards worth of LEDs every year for 10 years. I am not a professional technician and don’t need to spend more than absolutely necessary on tools that won’t be used much. http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.12.NlPLyc&id=306171612&ns=1#detail

Here is the name of the item电热镊子恒温加热镊子 恒温热镊子高迪焊台

焊台 Is soldering station.
高迪 Is the manufacturer.
温热镊子 refer to heating tweezers.

With care and maitenance the tool will maybe last that long.

Be very careful with the tips. It's set up for bent tips there. You can see in one of the pictures. Those tips look quite thin and will be prone to oxidize. As always when desoldering, add sodler (and flux, usually there is enough in the sodler) periodically to the tips and clean them frequently.

I would still recommend a slightly nicer one of course. You can get used ones (in good condition) by good brands (pace, metcal) for under $200 on the US eBay.

[Beatnutz]

I'm going to go ahead and wake this insanely old thread up again since I have just been suffering through some intense hours with LED desoldering and found a solution that worked best for me. Hopefullly it will help someone so they don't have to waste a lot of time like I did.

I believe similar approaches have been mentioned before. But you don't really need a clamp or anything like that. But if you have that available then even better.


- Make sure to apply plenty of solder on the two LED pins.
- Put the PCB up on its side, soldering iron in one hand and a tiny flat head screwdriver or similar in the other. Put some weight on the PCB with your hand that holds the screw drifer.
- Nudge the screwdriver in under the LED and make sure to have pressure and balance so the PCB doesn't fall and you know you have some pushing power.
- Simply touch the iron across both pins towards the bottom. The more solder you have on, the faster and easier it will melt.
- Push out the LED at the same time. Should be doable within 1-2 seconds.