Monterey Blues = Japanese Alps

[1391406]

I was reading a PC Magazine article from 1992 in which they reviewed 16 keyboards, one of them being the Chicony KB-5181. In that review, they referred to the switches the Chicony uses as 'Japanese Alps', which I thought was interesting, as they're commonly referred to as Monterey Blues. The article itself is a really good and in-depth read for mechanical keyboard enthusiasts, by the way. Anyway, if you have any thoughts on the reference to Japanese Alps, feel free to toss your hat in the ring.

[dorkvader]

I was reading a PC Magazine article from 1992 in which they reviewed 16 keyboards, one of them being the Chicony KB-5181. In that review, they referred to the switches the Chicony uses as 'Japanese Alps', which I thought was interesting, as they're commonly referred to as Monterey Blues. The article itself is a really good and in-depth read for mechanical keyboard enthusiasts, by the way. Anyway, if you have any thoughts on the reference to Japanese Alps, feel free to toss your hat in the ring.

"monterey blues", more properly called "SMK alps mount are made by SMK, which is a japanese company. That must be what caused the confusion I think.

I'll give the article a read.

[Findecanor]

Alps Electric is also a Japanese company. A Chicony 5181 could have any of many different switches, including Alps, SMK "Monterey", Cherry MX Blue or even Cherry MX-clones.

Are there any pictures of the tested keyboard and its switches ... and are you sure that the image is of the specific keyboard that they tested and not a stock photo?

[SpAmRaY]

Ok so I admit I don't have the patience right now to stop and read the article but just glancing over it, that is an awesome article!! And to think here we are discussing mechanical keyboards in 2014.

[dorkvader]

Ok so I admit I don't have the patience right now to stop and read the article but just glancing over it, that is an awesome article!! And to think here we are discussing mechanical keyboards in 2014.

You should, it's awesome.

Check out the vintage 1992 pricing:

ALPS MDS101 (integrated dome I think): $85
Cherry G80-1000: $109.97
Cherry G80-3000: $104.50
Cherry G81-1000: $99
Cherry G81-3000: $95
Chicony KB-5181: $49.99
PCD Maltron advertisement: $637
Datadesk Switchboard: $239 + $149 for optional serial trackball module + $49 for optional 15-extra-function-key grid.
Datadesk turbo 101: $99.95
Honeywell 101WN: $69 (this is a membrane honeywell)
Beige label model M: $217
SSK (not reviewed here) $156
Keytronic MB101 plus: $115 (membrane switches and I quote: "bargain priced keyboard")
Maxi-switch maxi-pro: $150 (domes of course, though it has 15 programmable blank keys)
Maxi-switch tucson 101: $56 (domes)
NMB RT101+ mechanical: $37 (comes in silent tactile, click tactile and linear)
NMB RT101+ membrane: $31
Northgate Omnikey/101: $89
Northgate Omnikey Ultra-T: $129
Tandy 101-key: $99.95 ("spring actuated" membrane swtiches.)(Not sure what this could use with the "fully curved profile" and "IBM-style touch". I didt think tandy did any KBs with ya-sheng.)

I think the northgate 101 is the real winner, possibly followed by the RT101+ depending.


They also make a note of the huge caret on the 6 for the G80 boards. Sounds like doubleshots to me.

It also says the datadesk switchboard uses "japanese alps" switches, but I thought they weren't actual ALPS switches at that point. DT wiki seems to indicate it was genuine alps shells with hua-jie switchplates.

Overall a great read, but I want to know more about that tandy. Something's up with it for sure.

[1391406]

Alps Electric is also a Japanese company.

The article mentions the Japanese and Asian branches though it also references ALPS America.

A Chicony 5181 could have any of many different switches, including Alps, SMK "Monterey", Cherry MX Blue or even Cherry MX-clones.

The only ones I've ever seen (in the 5181) are Monterey blues, but that doesn't mean anything.

Are there any pictures of the tested keyboard and its switches ... and are you sure that the image is of the specific keyboard that they tested and not a stock photo?

The article reviewed 16 keyboards though there are only images for a few(the KB-5181 isn't one of them). They list a number of stats for each keyboard, such as operating force required(in ounces), key travel distance(in millimeters), and switch type, among others.

[dorkvader]

The article reviewed 16 keyboards though there are only images for a few(the KB-5181 isn't one of them). They list a number of stats for each keyboard, such as operating force required(in ounces), key travel distance(in millimeters), and switch type, among others.

I listed the prices, but I wish I could transcribe that whole chart.

Check out those illustrations though!


about the chicony: they used SMK alps mount (monterey blue) switches at least as far back as 1990. Since this was published in 1992, there's a chance it had that or complicated white alps (or something else?)

[1391406]

The article reviewed 16 keyboards though there are only images for a few(the KB-5181 isn't one of them). They list a number of stats for each keyboard, such as operating force required(in ounces), key travel distance(in millimeters), and switch type, among others.

I listed the prices, but I wish I could transcribe that whole chart.

Check out those illustrations though!

The illustrations are great, no doubt.

The article talks about membrane switches being the most reliable of all, which I thought was interesting. I've inquired in previous threads as to the reliability of mechanical keyboards vs. membrane based switches due to the number of moving parts, and the article touches on that.

On another note, I'm curious about that Tandy, as well.

[Magna224]

Jeez it would suck to have to try and find a Chicony 5181 with Monterey switches in a store and avoid the cherry clones and other switches...

[fohat.digs]

Check out those illustrations though!

Show Image

No way. The spring goes way up into the socket at the top of the stem on an IBM.

[1391406]

Jeez it would suck to have to try and find a Chicony 5181 with Monterey switches in a store and avoid the cherry clones and other switches...

Likely no more difficult than it is now. I tend to think Monterey blues are the dominant switch in 5181's. For instance, all of the KB-5181's I ever see on eBay with images of the switches are Monterey blues. Look on eBay right now. Then look at the one's that have already sold. All Monterey blues. That's all I've ever owned.

[fohat.digs]

I tend to think Monterey blues are the dominant switch in 5181's.

That has been my experience, too, with the 4-5 that I have owned.

[jacobolus]

I bought a KB-5181 on ebay that showed a picture of “monterey” blue SMK switches, but when the keyboard arrived it was white Alps.

Here’s one currently on ebay with white Alps:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/171404921383

I’ve also seen ones on ebay with MX-mount Futaba switches.

But yeah, more than half of the ones that show up on ebay with keycaps pulled seem to be SMK switches.

[1391406]

I bought a KB-5181 on ebay that showed a picture of “monterey” blue SMK switches, but when the keyboard arrived it was white Alps.

Here’s one currently on ebay with white Alps:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/171404921383

I’ve also seen ones on ebay with MX-mount Futaba switches.

But yeah, more than half of the ones that show up on ebay with keycaps pulled seem to be SMK switches.

I'm not sure if the rebranding has anything to do with it, as most of the Chicony branded KB-5181's I've seen contain Monterey blues. I'm also not sure if the suffix in the model no. of the Hyundai (KB-5181 PT) has any bearing.

[Touch_It]

Slightly off topic but I use a worn Chicony 5881 as my daily driver.  I may like it more than mx blues but don't have one to do real-world comparison testing with.  I love vintage keyboards.

[Magna224]

My 5181s were both cherry clones but I paid like $3.50 for both so it didnt really matter.

[dorkvader]

The article talks about membrane switches being the most reliable of all, which I thought was interesting. I've inquired in previous threads as to the reliability of mechanical keyboards vs. membrane based switches due to the number of moving parts, and the article touches on that.

On another note, I'm curious about that Tandy, as well.

I must have missed that part. I did notice at least twice where they were listing the reliability of a membrane switch and how it had improved.

[jacobolus]

To be fair, early membrane keyboards were rather better than the later ones (after cost cutting really accelerated). Membrane keyboards are more resistant to dirt, spills, improper storage, etc. than discrete mechanical switches.

[dorkvader]

To be fair, early membrane keyboards were rather better than the later ones (after cost cutting really accelerated). Membrane keyboards are more resistant to dirt, spills, improper storage, etc. than discrete mechanical switches.

I dunno: hall effect keyboards are pretty resilient to dirt, spills and improper storage.

[1391406]

From the article:

"Once the least reliable keyboard technology, with the shortest life expectancy, current versions of membrane-switch keyboards are among the most reliable of all. Membrane switches use a small number of parts, and current materials are long-lasting and resistant to environmental changes. Honeywell, Key Tronic, NMB, Tandy, and even IBM - now employ this technology in their keyboards."

And:

"One problem with mechanical switches is the number of parts required. A mechanical-switch keyboard may use as many as three times the parts of a membrane-switch model."

[dorkvader]

I remember that first quote. I guess the meaning I got from it was that they are much better than they used to be.

With the second quote: obviously they mean it's only a problem for higher price

[1391406]

I remember that first quote. I guess the meaning I got from it was that they are much better than they used to be.

When they mention current versions of membrane switches being the most reliable of all, it seems to me they're referencing it within the context of keyboard technology.

With the second quote: obviously they mean it's only a problem for higher price

I related the second quote to reliability since the article seemed to associate fewer parts (membrane switches) with the most reliability.

[davkol]

I bought a KB-5181 on ebay that showed a picture of “monterey” blue SMK switches, but when the keyboard arrived it was white Alps.

Here’s one currently on ebay with white Alps:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/171404921383

I’ve also seen ones on ebay with MX-mount Futaba switches.

But yeah, more than half of the ones that show up on ebay with keycaps pulled seem to be SMK switches.

I'm not sure if the rebranding has anything to do with it, as most of the Chicony branded KB-5181's I've seen contain Monterey blues. I'm also not sure if the suffix in the model no. of the Hyundai (KB-5181 PT) has any bearing.

My 5191 with Cherry MX Blue is actually 5191CT, but Idk whether the C stands for Cherry, or cyrillic (the keyboard has additional cyrillic printing).

[Daniel Beardsmore]

It also says the datadesk switchboard uses "japanese alps" switches, but I thought they weren't actual ALPS switches at that point. DT wiki seems to indicate it was genuine alps shells with hua-jie switchplates.

The Switchboard that I've seen used real Alps switches, but whoever made the shell moulds botched them. It would appear that whichever factory made that error (e.g. Forward or Gold Star Alps) fixed the moulds and threw out all the shells that didn't have the branding and numbering on them. These shells were then paired with Himake internals to make fake Alps switches. I don't know whether Himake did that, or Focus.

This was one theory, and by sheer luck, when I asked SPARC for permission to use his Datadesk Switchboard photos, he took me a load more including several of the switch, and that's when I noticed that the shell was identical to the fake Alps switches that Focus used. This now backs up the theory about re-used rejects from an Alps subsidiary.

Then again, I don't know how many fake Alps Focus keyboards were ever made — those seem to be pretty rare as well.

[jacobolus]

One design difference among the keyboards reviewed here is their pencil-tray depth. Typically, pencil trays on these models are anywhere from 1 to 2 inches deep, although on some units they are practically nonexistant. If space is a concern, you may want to opt for a more compact model with little space devoted to pencil-tray service.

[dorkvader]

I find the pencil tray to be crucial and lament its loss on modern boards.

[davkol]

Lenovo Preferred Pro still has one.