Can anyone confirm ABS has fixed the nkey issue?

[Special K]

The keyboard controller for a regular 2KRO board has to perform ghosting suppression. A key pattern that is invalid on these may well be valid on a board with diodes. Pressing all 4 keys in a 2x2 matrix segment would still be treated as a fault condition. For 3 it might work.

So you can try it, but if you're unlucky the board will have no better rollover capability than before. Best try it with a small part of the matrix only.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean.  Why would pressing all 4 keys in a 2x2 matrix still not be valid if each key had a diode added?

And yes, I would start by only trying this on a 2x2 grid that is known to give problems, such as QWAS.

[talis]

I'm not sure I understand what you mean.  Why would pressing all 4 keys in a 2x2 matrix still not be valid if each key had a diode added?

And yes, I would start by only trying this on a 2x2 grid that is known to give problems, such as QWAS.

The controller isn't aware that there are diodes in place, and therefore has to assume the 4th key press is a phantom.  Basically the controller is designed to detect these conditions, and doesn't know if they are generated by intentional key presses, or phantom key presses (even if you later install diodes to prevent the latter).

[Special K]

The controller isn't aware that there are diodes in place, and therefore has to assume the 4th key press is a phantom.  Basically the controller is designed to detect these conditions, and doesn't know if they are generated by intentional key presses, or phantom key presses (even if you later install diodes to prevent the latter).

So basically you're saying the microcontroller is programmed to know which key combinations are possible and which aren't, and automatically blocks ones that it knows aren't consistent with the way the keyboard was initially manufactured?

[talis]

So basically you're saying the microcontroller is programmed to know which key combinations are possible and which aren't, and automatically blocks ones that it knows aren't consistent with the way the keyboard was initially manufactured?

Correct.

[Special K]

Correct.

In that case I'm feeling much less confident about my idea to add diodes.

[talis]

In that case I'm feeling much less confident about my idea to add diodes.

Sorry keyb_gr, didn't mean to hijack your responses like this.

Diodes aren't really anything magical, they are just the electronics equivalent of a one way valve.  They allow current to flow in one direction, but not in the other.  They don't modify a controllers perception of the state of the matrix, unless the controller is aware that they are there (through the version of the firmware loaded on to the controller usually).

The controller design is actually much simpler if diodes are in place as you don't have to worry about checking for, or handling inconsistent states.

[Special K]

Sorry keyb_gr, didn't mean to hijack your responses like this.

Diodes aren't really anything magical, they are just the electronics equivalent of a one way valve.  They allow current to flow in one direction, but not in the other.  

The controller design is actually much simpler if diodes are in place, as you don't have to worry about check for, or handling inconsistent conditions.

Right, I'm familiar with how diodes work.  It's just that when part of the key blocking is being handled by the microcontroller, there's nothing I can do about that.  In theory, adding diodes seems like it should work if the microcontroller wasn't using a pre-programmed list of what key combinations were and were not possible.

[talis]

Right, I'm familiar with how diodes work.  It's just that when part of the key blocking is being handled by the microcontroller, there's nothing I can do about that.  In theory, adding diodes seems like it should work if the microcontroller wasn't using a pre-programmed list of what key combinations were and were not possible.

That's not entirely true, depending on how the software was designed,  it is possible to get another key rollover with diodes in place.

For example, if the combination qas was pressed without diodes, the controller may see qwas and detect this as an inconsistent state.  With diodes in place, the controller will only see qas pressed, and may correctly register it.  The behavior is entirely dependent on the firmware design.   Basically it depends on if they designed the firmware to detect the condition that could cause phantom key presses (in the previous example the qas keys being pressed), or if it was designed to detect the resulting condition (registering qwas being pressed).

[keyb_gr]

Basically it depends on if they designed the firmware to detect the condition that could cause phantom key presses (in the previous example the qas keys being pressed), or if it was designed to detect the resulting condition (registering qwas being pressed).

Yep, that's what I meant. Now one would only need to know which one is easier to implement...

The ideal candidate for trying this out would be a board which would have space for diodes but has wire bridges installed instead. If I felt more confident about my soldering abilities I'd try picking up some used G80 on the cheap for some diode hacking...

[MR.B0y]

Well on another subject my ABS M1's paint on the keys is wearing off! What a piece of SH**! It;s only 2 months old. What a mistake this thing was.

[Special K]

Well on another subject my ABS M1's paint on the keys is wearing off! What a piece of SH**! It;s only 2 months old. What a mistake this thing was.

I thought even Filco boards had that problem.

Then again, don't Filco and ABS use the same OEM?

[o2dazone]

Yes, Costar


also MR.B0y, good time to learn touch typing lol

[SparroHawc]

Show Image

Under "Mechanical Switch"

Of course in Marketing we would say "hey, we just promised simultaneously 6-key press.  We never said what would HAPPEN if you push the keys."

Oh GOD.

I cannot believe the gall of companies that claim 'decreased latency' from gold-plating the bloody GROUND CONNECTION.

That right there should tell you that the company's marketing department lies like a dog.

[o2dazone]

Oh GOD.

I cannot believe the gall of companies that claim 'decreased latency' from gold-plating the bloody GROUND CONNECTION.

That right there should tell you that the company's marketing department lies like a dog.

welcome to geekhack

[Rajagra]

Oh GOD.

I cannot believe the gall of companies that claim 'decreased latency' from gold-plating the bloody GROUND CONNECTION.

That right there should tell you that the company's marketing department lies like a dog.

My theory is that the gold plating ionises electrons as they pass through the main conductors, making them run faster! :wink:

[itlnstln]

Oh GOD.
 
I cannot believe the gall of companies that claim 'decreased latency' from gold-plating the bloody GROUND CONNECTION.
 
That right there should tell you that the company's marketing department lies like a dog.

They put that line on the wrong picture.  The reduced latency comes from the braiding on the cable.  My ABS types faster than my Filco because of it.
 
 
 
 
 
Seriously, though, has anyone ever seen a keyboard lag?  I mean, other than throwing 150 WPM at Word 2007 running on a 386?

[keyb_gr]

Seriously, though, has anyone ever seen a keyboard lag?  I mean, other than throwing 150 WPM at Word 2007 running on a 386?

Always depends on which kind of software you use. If you have a Gecko-based browser on a PIII-class machine it's easy to see a multi-second lag when entering something in the URL bar while the browser is still busy with rendering or some script. But even then the lag is not caused by the keyboard but the software processing the input - there only is a single rendering thread in this case.

To repeat myself, I think the "reduced latency" statement does not refer to the gold-plated USB connector but rather the usage of USB itself. Whether that's true is another matter, I think it has been discussed either here or in the USB vs. PS/2 thread.

[alpslover]

Seriously, though, has anyone ever seen a keyboard lag?

i've noticed it on the das 3.  during fast key combinations, there would be a very slight delay before the keys i hit show on the screen (and they may or may not be in the correct order).  it's just enough lag to make me think 'that was odd'.

[itlnstln]

Unfortunately, it does not suprise me that when people have a keyboard lag, it's on a Das III.