Can anyone confirm ABS has fixed the nkey issue?

[aarroo]

I am about to pull the trigger here on an ABS m1 keyboard but I am concerned about the nkey rollover issue many people seem to be having.  

On newegg, most of the customers that left bad reviews regarding this were left with a customer service response stating they could RMA it and receive a non-defective keyboard.. It also states that their keyboards do support 6key rollover.

I was curious if anyone can confirm this issue has been fixed or if this is still an problem.  I will be using this keyboard for heavy gaming so its fairly important.

[ch_123]

I'm pretty sure this was a firmware problem that they have since fixed.

[itlnstln]

I bought several months ago, and the issue had already been fixed.  It shouldn't be a problem anymore.

[IBI]

They've fixed the issue where you can only press one key at once.

They've removed any claims that it'll handle 6 keys now. I don't know whether they were just ignorant, whether they had issues with their supplier or whether it was marketing that backfired with too many complains but there's no longer any 6-key claims made. (they never actually claimed it was n-key rollover, just that it'd handle six keys at once).

As far as I know it's a normal matrix that'll block on some combinations of three keys, if you want n-key rollover look elsewhere.

[Stevie Wonder]

Then why this post on Newegg as of 6-4-2009 by Crazymodder?

By the way, 4 keypress at the same time is the max on one row whereas 6 keypresses at the same time is the max across 2 rows

Could someone test a CTRL-WAEX type combo?  4 keys on the same row is no biggie but that one is somewhat real life.

[itlnstln]

They've fixed the issue where you can only press one key at once.
 
They've removed any claims that it'll handle 6 keys now. I don't know whether they were just ignorant, whether they had issues with their supplier or whether it was marketing that backfired with too many complains but there's no longer any 6-key claims made. (they never actually claimed it was n-key rollover, just that it'd handle six keys at once).
 
As far as I know it's a normal matrix that'll block on some combinations of three keys, if you want n-key rollover look elsewhere.

It would handle 6-keys on quite a few combinations.  Unfortunately, it failed on a few others.  QWAS would only give you 2 keys.

[aarroo]

They've fixed the issue where you can only press one key at once.

They've removed any claims that it'll handle 6 keys now. I don't know whether they were just ignorant, whether they had issues with their supplier or whether it was marketing that backfired with too many complains but there's no longer any 6-key claims made. (they never actually claimed it was n-key rollover, just that it'd handle six keys at once).

As far as I know it's a normal matrix that'll block on some combinations of three keys, if you want n-key rollover look elsewhere.

They actually are still claiming it can do 6 keys at once in the details section on their website for this keyboard.  You can check it out here. http://www.abs.com/app/Keyboard_M1_details.asp

I was really hoping this issue was remedied..seems as though it may have been but everywhere I read i get mixed reviews.  I really want to get a mechanical keyboard but im not about to drop <100$ bucks on one.

[Special K]

It would handle 6-keys on quite a few combinations.  Unfortunately, it failed on a few others.  QWAS would only give you 2 keys.

That particular combination seems like a pretty serious oversight for a keyboard being marketed to gamers.

[aarroo]

as far as "qwas" key combination.  I don't ever see myself using this combination with more than 2 keys pressed anyways, would be extremely awkward. (unless I am to assume WAS would only allow 2 key press as well, in which case yes that would be an issue)

[itlnstln]

That particular combination seems like a pretty serious oversight for a keyboard being marketed to gamers.

I don't game, and when I did, I used a Belkin Nostromo N50/52, but I am not too sure how often you would press more than two of the QWAS keys at the same time.  I would think this isn't as big of a problem as it appears.

[itlnstln]

Well, it would be nice for someone to check something a little more realistic.
 
CTRL-WEAZX if you play FPS style games maybe. Crouching while throwing grenades and sending distress calls.

This would be a much better test, IMO.

[IBI]

They actually are still claiming it can do 6 keys at once in the details section on their website for this keyboard.  You can check it out here. http://www.abs.com/app/Keyboard_M1_details.asp

Sorry, I did check but I'm not sure how I missed it.

I was really hoping this issue was remedied..seems as though it may have been but everywhere I read i get mixed reviews.  I really want to get a mechanical keyboard but im not about to drop <100$ bucks on one.

Well it's not going to be generally any worse than any other keyboard under that price so I'd not let the bad advertising put you off unless you know of a keyboard of a similar price that doesn't block with any combination of six keys.

[Special K]

I don't game, and when I did, I used a Belkin Nostromo N50/52, but I am not too sure how often you would press more than two of the QWAS keys at the same time.  I would think this isn't as big of a problem as it appears.

Well most people leave the default WASD keys for movement, so I guess it depends what you have mapped to Q.  I guess I could see a scenario in which you were circle-strafing using W and D, while tapping on Q to activate some weapon, item, feature, etc.

It's certainly not the most common key combination for gamers, but I tend to map the most frequently used functions as close to WASD as possible, so I was just thinking that not being able to press 3 of QWAS could be a problem in certain situations.

[aarroo]

hmm... ok so basically 2 people are saying its fixed and 2 aren't.  This is the main reason I started this thread, I really wanna get to the bottom of this before I buy.

[Special K]

I think ItlnStln answered your question.  The lastest review on Newegg ALSO indicates keyblocking on one row.

It is not technically a 6-key rollover board.

If I were a heavy gamer I'd keep looking.

I just tried the n-key rollover test posted in the keyboard forums with my Dell AT101W.  Pressing QWAS simultaneously only registers AQ.

I guess black alps aren't your best bet if gaming is a major point for you.

EDIT: My MX-11800 can't handle QWAS either - it just gives AQ.

[Special K]

(unless I am to assume WAS would only allow 2 key press as well, in which case yes that would be an issue)

Your assumption is correct - pressing more than 2 keys of QWAS at the same time will only result in two keypresses being registered.

[Special K]

Not surprised with the ABS results but am with the Compaq. Do you have it plugged into PS/2 or USB through a dongle?

It's plugged straight into the PS/2 port.

[Special K]

Well, Wat got a different result.

Also, I believe Cchan said the 8100 and 11800 were part of the Cherry Premium Series (whatever that was) and were N-key.

Not sure what's going on here but shows how difficult it is to nail this down.

For the record - everyone that has tested them have found the Filco N-key models and the Topres to be fully 6-key at least.  Also my Das handled CTRL-QWAZX no problem.  (Teh (sic) key transposition thing is a different issue.)  Under $100 remains a vast wasteland for currently shipping 6-key boards.  Except the Filco Zero and I haven't seen a review on that one yet (worried the keys are too stiff for a gaming board).

In that link you posted, it says:

yep the mx11800 passes the test! If I was to imitate playing cs using the 1,2,3,4 and wasd + shift, ctrl and space, they all register when I press them all down. (only up to 8 keys though)

That doesn't look like they tested QWAS, which the combination I mentioned that would only register 2 keys on both my AT101W and MX11800.

[IBI]

hmm... ok so basically 2 people are saying its fixed and 2 aren't.  This is the main reason I started this thread, I really wanna get to the bottom of this before I buy.

They fixed the initial bad batch where only a single key would register but as far as I know they haven't changed the design so it'll accept any combination of six keys.

In that link you posted, it says:

That doesn't look like they tested QWAS, which the combination I mentioned that would only register 2 keys on both my AT101W and MX11800.

On most matrixes WAS will give the same results as QWAS.

[cchan]

Well, Wat got a different result.

Also, I believe Cchan said the 8100 and 11800 were part of the Cherry Premium Series (whatever that was) and were N-key.

Advanced Performance Line. The 8100 is part of it, whereas the 11800 is not. The 11800 is not NKRO. The 8100 is.

Incidentally, my Laser IFS80-2269-1 board (I believe that's what bhtooefr called it) passes qwas though blocks qwd. It's having some chattering problems though.

[Special K]

Well, so much for recommending the Compaq 11800 to heavy gamers then.

Getting pretty lean there in the sub $100 6-key rollover keyboard choices.

What choices do we have for < $100?

[Special K]

In the new shipping boards I can't think of one other than the Filco Zero.  And I betcha that's a pretty stiff and loud keyboard.  Might be worth the tradeoff for some people.

Stupid keyboard manufacturers.  This one is easy.  Save money by using scissor switches, no LEDs and cheap case.  Put the money into some penny diodes and electronics.  Market the hell out of it.  Easy.

You also have the SteelSeries 7g, although the cherry blacks don't seem to be too popular on here.  I've never used them myself, I just don't see them mentioned much.

[Special K]

$111 at Amazon.

Some people have it here.  Another pretty stiff keyboard for gaming IMHO.

Wow, I didn't realize it was that expensive.  For some reason I thought it was only $60-70, that's why I mentioned it.

The funny thing about the keys being too stiff for gaming is that the keyboard is actually marketed towards gamers.  I'm not sure how they came to choose cherry blacks for that keyboard.  The Deck Legend, another keyboard marketed towards gamers, also uses the cherry black switches (although Deck recently released a tactile keyboard).

[itlnstln]

Cherry blacks are pretty stiff, more so than BS, IIRC.  Between the stiffness and the lack of tactility, most people around here don't like them too much.  Basically what ripster just said.
 
I'm trying to up my post count.
 
Not really.

[aarroo]

some great responses here, beginning to really enjoy this forum.  I REALLY don't want to leap over the 100$ mark but if I must then.. well.. I'm sure you know how that goes.

I do tend to keep things for a VERY long time, so this would probably be a good investment.  Ive had a logitech elite keyboard (membrane eewWW)  for 5+ years now and the keys are just now starting to stick, plus the keyboard isn't recognized half the time when i boot up.  Time for a new one, thought I'd give this mechanical thing a try.

I guess the next question is, what switches are best for gaming.  I see much praise for the blue cherrys.  Ill do some searching as I'm sure this has been asked before.

Thanks again!

[wellington1869]

I REALLY don't want to leap over the 100$ mark

yea, thats how we all started out ;-\

[itlnstln]

some great responses here

If that's what you think, then don't read any of my posts.

[Special K]

In the new shipping boards I can't think of one other than the Filco Zero.  And I betcha that's a pretty stiff and loud keyboard.  Might be worth the tradeoff for some people.

Stupid keyboard manufacturers.  This one is easy.  Save money by using scissor switches, no LEDs and cheap case.  Put the money into some penny diodes and electronics.  Market the hell out of it.  Easy.

The Filco Zero uses white alps copies, correct?

I guess for gamers who don't want to take any chances with key blocking issues, the only option is to spend > $100 on a Filco.

Maybe in time, elitekeyboards will carry a Filco model using every major keyswitch type.  We already have cherry brown, blue, and black, along with white alps (I think, see my question about the Filco Zero above).  

If Filco/elitekeyboards makes a board with black alps, won't that pretty much cover the spectrum, aside from buckling springs?

[IBI]

I do tend to keep things for a VERY long time, so this would probably be a good investment.  Ive had a logitech elite keyboard (membrane eewWW)  for 5+ years now

Rubber dome! The membrane is just the bit that registers the keys, it makes no difference to anyone.

I guess the next question is, what switches are best for gaming.  I see much praise for the blue cherrys.  Ill do some searching as I'm sure this has been asked before.

I don't think the forum has reached a consensus on them. Personally, I feel that the typing feedback makes sod all difference for gaming and as long as the keys will reliably go down and register when you press them then nothing else is needed feedback-wise. I tend to play typical PC games though, if you like something more niche like beat em ups with lots of button bashing then maybe some are better than others.

[pex]

Saying your keyboard offers 6-key rollover (or in whatever similar Engrish rendition), when it doesn't, is not mismarketing; it's fraud.  This is no inexact science.

[ch_123]

If Filco/elitekeyboards makes a board with black alps, won't that pretty much cover the spectrum, aside from buckling springs?

Well, leaving aside some obscure ones, pretty much. It would be nice to see a Filco Zero with black Alps, would probably sell quite well.

[kyamei]

Well, leaving aside some obscure ones, pretty much. It would be nice to see a Filco Zero with black Alps, would probably sell quite well.

They did make a Filco Zero with black alps.

http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?t=4700

[ch_123]

Well, in that case, I wonder if Majestouch has any plans to stock them. The white alps ones sold out pretty quickly.

[jkkhop]

some great responses here, beginning to really enjoy this forum.  I REALLY don't want to leap over the 100$ mark but if I must then.. well.. I'm sure you know how that goes.

I do tend to keep things for a VERY long time, so this would probably be a good investment.  Ive had a logitech elite keyboard (membrane eewWW)  for 5+ years now and the keys are just now starting to stick, plus the keyboard isn't recognized half the time when i boot up.  Time for a new one, thought I'd give this mechanical thing a try.

I guess the next question is, what switches are best for gaming.  I see much praise for the blue cherrys.  Ill do some searching as I'm sure this has been asked before.

Thanks again!

Hello there. I've been playing fps games for up to 10 years also had a Logitech Media Elite for a couple of years and it's far from its best days too. Decided to get a mechanical keyboad like a week ago. I read from several sites that the Cherry Brown switches are the lightest (thus, best for fps gaming) so I ordered a Filco 87-key with Brown Cherry switches. Tho, the Blue Cherries are almost as light + they have a very nice clicking sound.

[IBI]

Saying your keyboard offers 6-key rollover (or in whatever similar Engrish rendition), when it doesn't, is not mismarketing; it's fraud.  This is no inexact science.

So any car companies that claim their car can hit 100mph are perpetrating fraud because that's only possible under some conditions?

I do think it needs to be clarified and it may be slightly misleading, but I think jumping to calling it fraud is going a bit far when you don't even know if it was intentional or not.

Has anyone here sent in a complaint to whatever the US equivelent of the advertising standards agency is?

[Special K]

So any car companies that claim their car can hit 100mph are perpetrating fraud because that's only possible under some conditions?

I do think it needs to be clarified and it may be slightly misleading, but I think jumping to calling it fraud is going a bit far when you don't even know if it was intentional or not.

Has anyone here sent in a complaint to whatever the US equivelent of the advertising standards agency is?

What about just contacting Newegg/ABS directly?  You could also post it on their EggXpert forums.  Apparently Newegg employees check there.

[IBI]

What about just contacting Newegg/ABS directly?  You could also post it on their EggXpert forums.  Apparently Newegg employees check there.

Well yes, if you haven't already contacted them then that's be a good first step. I was assuming that'd been done and the response either wasn't helpful or didn't come at all.

[Special K]

Well yes, if you haven't already contacted them then that's be a good first step. I was assuming that'd been done and the response either wasn't helpful or didn't come at all.

Would anyone who actually owns this keyboard be willing to post on the eggxpert forums and/or email newegg/ABS about their claim of 6-key rollover being incorrect?

I would do it, but I would be speaking from the perspective of someone who doesn't yet own the keyboard, but was interested in buying it.  I thought it might be easier for someone who actually owns the M1 to talk to Newegg/ABS about it.

[Special K]

I don't have the board but something still sounds a little strange. For Wat to get that many keys to register means there's more than simple matrix tricks going on.

Wat, if you catch this thread maybe you can check again with QWAS?

It's just an intellectual curiousity really, I bet the OP is looking for a currently shipping board.

Anyone following this should use THIS TEST!

How does that test differ from the one that is stickied in the keyboards forum:

http://rollover.geekhack.org/

As a gamer who's interested in buying this keyboard, I'm going to go ahead and make a post in the Eggxpert forums.  I'm not too optimistic, but it's worth a try at least.

[itlnstln]

Just get the Filco Zero: http://elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=filco_keyboards,majestouch_87key&pid=fkbn87zeb.  You'll be happier and have peace of mind if you did.

[Special K]

Just get the Filco Zero: http://elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=filco_keyboards,majestouch_87key&pid=fkbn87zeb.  You'll be happier and have peace of mind if you did.

The Filco Zero has white alps, while the ABS M1 has black alps, so it's not exactly an apples-to-apples comparison.  I've never tried white alps before, so I can't say if I'd like them or not.  I would eventually like to try all the keyswitches, however.

Plus I happen to like and use the numpad :wink:

[itlnstln]

I think if you get the ABS, you are going to be disappointed if you are looking for a gaming keyboard.  It's a great typer, and I enjoy mine, but if you are going to do any button mashing, I don't think it's going to work well for you.  I would seriously consider saving the extra money, and getting a Filco with verifiable NKRO.  The fact that you can't confidently buy the ABS tell me that you are going to regret the purchase in the long run.

[Special K]

I think if you get the ABS, you are going to be disappointed if you are looking for a gaming keyboard.  It's a great typer, and I enjoy mine, but if you are going to do any button mashing, I don't think it's going to work well for you.  I would seriously consider saving the extra money, and getting a Filco with verifiable NKRO.  The fact that you can't confidently buy the ABS tell me that you are going to regret the purchase in the long run.

This is a good point.  I'd just like to be able to buy a keyboard with the keyswitches of my choosing without having to worry about whether or not it will hold up for gaming.

Right now the only black alps boards I know of are the M1 and the AT101W.

[itlnstln]

Right now the only black alps boards I know of are the M1 and the AT101W.

Off the top of my head, these are the only two I know of as well.  Really, if you can use your Dell without any problems gaming, then you should be able to use the ABS with no problems as well.

[Special K]

If anyone cares to follow along, I made a post on the EggXpert forums here:

http://www.eggxpert.com/forums/537937/ShowThread.aspx#537937

I also sent the same message to ABS support.  Maybe I'll receive a reply.

[IBI]

This is a good point.  I'd just like to be able to buy a keyboard with the keyswitches of my choosing without having to worry about whether or not it will hold up for gaming.

You can use any keyboard for gaming without a problem.

[Special K]

You can use any keyboard for gaming without a problem.

It depends how many simultaneous keypresses the keyboard supports.

[ch_123]

It depends how many simultaneous keypresses the keyboard supports.

That's true. But unless the keyboard is really badly designed, you're not likely to run into problems. I'd rather have a Unicomp with well-designed 2-key rollover matrix than a Das where they put in n-key rollover, but didnt actually spend much time making the keyboard type properly.

[Special K]

What do you know, I actually received a reply from ABS regarding this issue:

Dear Valued Customer,
 
Thank you for contacting ABS.
 
We truly apologize for the inconvenience this may have caused you. According to our testing, the keyboard works well as we advertised. However, actually, we have also noticed some customers’ negative feedback regarding this. Please rest assured that we offer 1-year replacement warranty for this keyboard. Also, within 30 days from the purchase date, you are able to get a refund from our authorized resellers like Newegg and Chiefvalue. We will stand behind our product to assist you further.
 
Thank you so much for your patience and understanding. If you have any further questions or concerns, please feel free to contact us.

Somehow I doubt replacing the keyboard under warranty is going to make any difference when the issue here is a design flaw.  I sent a follow-up reply to the CSR, but I doubt this is going to go anywhere.

[MR.B0y]

I have recently purchased one and I tried the link to a keyboard testing program here in the forums but I didn't really know what to look for? If I paid for something I didn't get I will return it to Newegg, I've got to be getting close to my 30 days though. I would like a keyboard closer to the Cherry keyboards I use at work, this one is too loud. Is the ABS M1 being misrepresented?